Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

I am not sure about harmless.
If the virus hangs about in your nasal passage then it can be released into the air and infect others.

Highly unlikely though. Once it's in the sticky mucus at the rear of the nasal passage it's not going to just float out. It will almost certainly end up being discharged with the mucus in the usual ways, either blown or sneezed out into a handkerchief or discharged through the digestive tract.

But if just present and loose in the nasal passage but not trapped in mucus, I'm sure that's not unusual now, given the very widespread presence of the virus in the population.

In any scenario I'm certain we are over recording due to the swab test's obvious deficiencies.
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[flecc]

But in the small family gathering, it is likely that none has been tested - at least, not in the hours and a few days before the gathering. Whereas "sport" is supposedly imposing a strict and frequent testing regime of everyone present.

They are still breaking the rules that apply to all of us by having the matches.

And I don't trust either the testing or sport itself. Remember Lance Armstrong and the over a decade of testing for drugs he supposedly had?
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[flecc]

It works ok, provided the 30 man squad on each side have been held in quarantine systems for the 14 days before each match. Josh Adams broke that quarantine . Hopefully he reported or was excluded from meeting with the rest of the squad before he had the opportunity of infecting them ... . Of course if none of the family group were infected , then he couldn't pass it on anyway.
Well actually I have mixed views ..a weakened Welsh team , especially if spluttering with Covid might be the only way the Irish team will win. ( I jest! But 8 failures in Cardiff grates a bit)

On the other question on whether work or family should take priority.. well many of us are living with that problem daily. I would really have liked to comfort my sister in Wales at the funeral in a weeks time. But first it is illegal to travel, and I do have two essential workers at home

Link
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[flecc]

There are a number of postings here today objecting to running trials on the use of mixed vaccines . On the contrary, I welcome it. This is Science. At the moment we do not know whether mixing technologies is a good, a bad, or neutral thing. So do the experiments.

I don't think any of us have objected, we've just been cynical about the motivation for holding the trials.

Rightly so, given the rag-tag way the AZ vaccine was tested to get emergency use approval.
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[oyster]

It works ok, provided the 30 man squad on each side have been held in quarantine systems for the 14 days before each match. Josh Adams broke that quarantine . Hopefully he reported or was excluded from meeting with the rest of the squad before he had the opportunity of infecting them ... . Of course if none of the family group were infected , then he couldn't pass it on anyway.
Well actually I have mixed views ..a weakened Welsh team , especially if spluttering with Covid might be the only way the Irish team will win. ( I jest! But 8 failures in Cardiff grates a bit)

On the other question on whether work or family should take priority.. well many of us are living with that problem daily. I would really have liked to comfort my sister in Wales at the funeral in a weeks time. But first it is illegal to travel, and I do have two essential workers at home

I feel for people having to make such decisions.

But work or family is a choice. He had that choice. He didn't tell the squad, manager, etc., that was his choice. He simply hoped to get away with it. And might have done except it appears people simply cannot help themselves both breaking the rules AND bragging about it.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

I don't think any of us have objected, we've just been cynical about the motivation for holding the trials.

Rightly so, given the rag-tag way the AZ vaccine was tested to get emergency use approval.
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You have no evidence that short cuts or dangerous practices were adopted with the Oxford vaccine’s development.

Your words could tip the balance someone who is vaccine hesitant.

 

[oyster]

Oh jolly good! - a genuine one - instead of the usually fake or accidental ones?

The prime minister told a Downing Street press conference on Wednesday evening that the health secretary would set out the plans the following day.

But Mr Johnson’s official spokesman told a Westminster briefing on Thursday: “It was a genuine error... there is a statement by the vaccines minister in the House later today, but that is on vaccine deployment.

“The Health Secretary will set out the operational elements of the policy next week.”

The spokesman added: “We are continuing to work on the operational side and we will set out more detail next week.”

 

[sjpt]

I've only just noticed that my favourite data source has #vaccines now as well; absolute or per 100 population. It may have had it for some time.

COVID-19 Data Explorer

Research and data to make progress against the world’s largest problems

ourworldindata.org

I'm also pleased to say that I've still no significant side-effect of Pfeizer vac after 48 hours; just a slightly sore arm, very sore for a few seconds when the cat jumped on the jab.

 

[Wicky]

That makes sense - and I agree it needs researching. It was specifically the "even produce a more potent immunity" I wondered about.

First and foremost hopefully they'll test it doesn't have any adverse effects - at least on a handful of patients first.

meanwhile from the Independant Socialist Republic of Hull:

Switzerland refuses to approve Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine

It is the latest country to express fears over whether the vaccine works in older people

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Switzerland has refused to approve the Oxford AstraZeneca Covid vaccine for use in the country.

It is the latest country to have concerns over the effectiveness of the vaccine in over 65's - after similar worries in France, Germany and Austria.

Dr Bolte said the precise details of their concerns were confidential but added: “What I can say is that yes, it pertains to different age groups, over-65s and over-55s as well.

“It pertains to comorbidities, pre-existing conditions like asthma, hypertension, diabetes.

 

[Danidl]

First and foremost hopefully they'll test it doesn't have any adverse effects - at least on a handful of patients first.

meanwhile from the Independant Socialist Republic of Hull:

Switzerland refuses to approve Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine

It is the latest country to express fears over whether the vaccine works in older people

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Switzerland has refused to approve the Oxford AstraZeneca Covid vaccine for use in the country.

It is the latest country to have concerns over the effectiveness of the vaccine in over 65's - after similar worries in France, Germany and Austria.

Dr Bolte said the precise details of their concerns were confidential but added: “What I can say is that yes, it pertains to different age groups, over-65s and over-55s as well.

“It pertains to comorbidities, pre-existing conditions like asthma, hypertension, diabetes.

Wicky. I think you are over egging the pudding. The position is that there is at present INSUFFICIENT evidence of the effectiveness of the AZ vaccine on the over 65s . There is zero evidence of it being ineffective. The reason being that in the rush to get it out, they had not included sufficient elderly people in their samples.
Unfortunately this allows a bandwagon.
None of the countries are concerned or worried that it ineffective, just that its effectiveness is not yet confirmed. They have no concerns with the other vaccines, as the sample size of over 65s was sufficient for statistical analysis.
The Irish medical service went to great lengths yesterday to explain the difference. Presumably Hull or Zurich was not watching RTE.

 

[flecc]

You have no evidence that short cuts or dangerous practices were adopted with the Oxford vaccine’s development.

Yes I have, the short cuts below used to give "emergency approval" for its use but then its use adopted universally, not emergency at all. Even now we've seen no evidence of further trials, only reassuring statements that all is well. Meanwhile some countries afe taking a more cautious approach and another maker refuses to approve a long gap between first and second doses. It will probably be ok in all respects, but we don't know that for certain but should for any medical treatment.

"Then, the United Kingdom authorized emergency use of a vaccine made by AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford that had earlier caused perplexity after researchers reported efficacy results that combined trials with different populations, dosing of shots, and intervals between the prime and booster injections. Still more surprising, the U.K. Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) said the booster shot could be delayed for up to 12 weeks after the primary shot. It explained that an “exploratory analysis” of some trial participants found the vaccine efficacy was 73% after one full dose—a figure that, confusingly, was higher than the 62% after two full doses reported earlier in a study published in The Lancet. The delay would make it possible to give more people one shot quickly, a strategy that might bring down severe disease and death more quickly."

Your words could tip the balance someone who is vaccine hesitant.

So everyone must be gagged?

Fine in your police state I suppose, but not in mine.
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[Jesus H Christ]

First and foremost hopefully they'll test it doesn't have any adverse effects - at least on a handful of patients first.

meanwhile from the Independant Socialist Republic of Hull:

Switzerland refuses to approve Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine

It is the latest country to express fears over whether the vaccine works in older people

www.hulldailymail.co.uk

Switzerland has refused to approve the Oxford AstraZeneca Covid vaccine for use in the country.

It is the latest country to have concerns over the effectiveness of the vaccine in over 65's - after similar worries in France, Germany and Austria.

Dr Bolte said the precise details of their concerns were confidential but added: “What I can say is that yes, it pertains to different age groups, over-65s and over-55s as well.

“It pertains to comorbidities, pre-existing conditions like asthma, hypertension, diabetes.

That’s a Red I’m afraid. Spreading inaccurate information likely to discourage vaccine take up.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Yes I have, the short cuts below used to give "emergency approval" for its use but then its use adopted universally, not emergency at all. Even now we've seen no evidence of further trials, only reassuring statements that all is well. Meanwhile some countries afe taking a more cautious approach and another maker refuses to approve a long gap between first and second doses. It will probably be ok in all respects, but we don't know that for certain but should for any medical treatment

"Then, the United Kingdom authorized emergency use of a vaccine made by AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford that had earlier caused perplexity after researchers reported efficacy results that combined trials with different populations, dosing of shots, and intervals between the prime and booster injections. Still more surprising, the U.K. Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) said the booster shot could be delayed for up to 12 weeks after the primary shot. It explained that an “exploratory analysis” of some trial participants found the vaccine efficacy was 73% after one full dose—a figure that, confusingly, was higher than the 62% after two full doses reported earlier in a study published in The Lancet. The delay would make it possible to give more people one shot quickly, a strategy that might bring down severe disease and death more quickly."



So everyone must be gagged?

Fine in your police state I suppose, but not in mine.
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[flecc]

I'm also pleased to say that I've still no significant side-effect of Pfeizer vac after 48 hours; just a slightly sore arm, very sore for a few seconds when the cat jumped on the jab.

That seems to be the case with everyone around here who had the Pfizer.

With only three accounts, not enough gathered on the AZ so far to compare, though two with some side effects, a little unpleasant but not in any way severe enough to be frightened of.
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[flecc]

Back on the thread subject, leaving the EU, I posted this on 8th January 2016, six months before the referendum:

"On present indications I think the final referendum result could be so close that it won't resolve anything."

Prophetic words indeed as the 4529 argumentative pages of this thread testify.
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[Danidl]

"Your words could tip the balance someone who is vaccine hesitant.".
Yes JHC. Unfortunately that is true. However we cannot allow the ignorant to skew the debate. Truth must out.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

"Your words could tip the balance someone who is vaccine hesitant.".
Yes JHC. Unfortunately that is true. However we cannot allow the ignorant to skew the debate. Truth must out.

That’s a Red for you.

The only ignorance on here originates from sad amateur commentators who mistakenly believe they know better than the world’s leading experts. Step back from the canvas and look at the whole picture. You will see silly people on here who genuinely believe they’ve spotted flaws & errors in vaccine development and testing. It’s preposterous.

it’s safe, it’s protecting. Get it in your arm and stop fuelling baseless doubt. Your amateur speculation is working against global interests.

 

[Danidl]

Back on the thread subject, leaving the EU, I posted this on 8th January 2016, six months before the referendum:

"On present indications I think the final referendum result could be so close that it won't resolve anything."

Prophetic words indeed as the 4529 argumentative pages of this thread testify.
.

And getting back on thread, BJ again and in the HoC threatened yesterday to derail the Northern Ireland Protocol.. This is serious ,
For the last 3 weeks people have been wandering around the Port of Larne and Belfast ,and recording car registration numbers . Then checking where in the East Belfast enclaves these cars were to be found, and then of course the graffiti appears on the walls adjacent . It would say Quisling ..if they could spell , but Tout is a preferred shortcut. Next would be the bricks , if the guys resisted. But of course they don't, and inspections have ceased . The Port authorities citing Health and Safety can no longer ensure safety of employees . The DUP as the lead party in Government have a duty to ensure that the law of the land is carried out , but as a political party have a public policy of wishing the NI Protocols to fail.

Temperature is also rising a little with groups of masked and hooded men congregating in certain areas ... And no not surgical masks.
This is one of the reasons I was perturbed by last Friday's kerfuffle.

 

[Danidl]

That’s a Red for you.

The only ignorance on here originates from sad amateur commentators who mistakenly believe they know better than the world’s leading experts. Step back from the canvas and look at the whole picture. Silly people on here genuinely believe they’ve spotted flaws & errors in vaccine development and testing.

it’s safe, it’s protecting. Get it in your arm and stop fuelling baseless doubt. You’re a mature speculation is working against global interests.

View attachment 40617

Do you have the attention span of a gnat?. Read my prior postings , particularly the one referring to the briefing on yesterday's RTE news. Post 90925

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Do you have the attention span of a gnat?. Read my prior postings , particularly the one referring to the briefing on yesterday's RTE news. Post 90925

I did read that post at the time and I’ve passed it to the TMO. They’ve come back to me. Upon reflection, you’re now on a Yellow, not a Red. You’ve dodged a bullet, but it will be Red next time.