Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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And you can offer some data that says he didn't?, after the pillock just declared victory "it's over" while people are still catching and and dying of it?
And the next version isn't guaranteed to non lethal.
You'll be saying Brexit is a big success next :D
Told you before it impossible to prove a negative. I reckon Martians caused pandemic, you prove otherwise. It's upto you to prove your assumption. You, ve said it at least half a dozen times now.
If it's case who is responsible for French, Italian or American deaths? I can guess. Boris.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Told you before it impossible to prove a negative. I reckon Martians caused pandemic, you prove otherwise. It's upto you to prove your assumption. You, ve said it at least half a dozen times now.
If it's case who is responsible for French, Italian or American deaths? I can guess. Boris.
Zlatan, we have gone over this amount of ground multiple times before . The populations of Germany and the UK are not greatly dissimilar , and if anything the UK had a much greater leeway in handling the first wave., being an island and uniquely not being bound by EU free movement , but the death rate per million in the UK is 1000 more than Germany . Of the countries Italy was the special case, with it being present in the Alps before anyone knew it was outside China. France was linked to the same outbreak . Moreover the UK figure of 2247 per million is skewed and in my opinion dishonest , because people who refuse to die on day 27 after diagnosis. and inconveniently clog up ICU beds for an additional few weeks get removed from the statistics. So even though i have no vote in UK Elections, I would blame BJ. .. And what is more pertinent, my cousin in London would blame him as well.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
7,744
4,028
Zlatan, we have gone over this amount of ground multiple times before . The populations of Germany and the UK are not greatly dissimilar , and if anything the UK had a much greater leeway in handling the first wave., being an island and uniquely not being bound by EU free movement , but the death rate per million in the UK is 1000 more than Germany . Of the countries Italy was the special case, with it being present in the Alps before anyone knew it was outside China. France was linked to the same outbreak . Moreover the UK figure of 2247 per million is skewed and in my opinion dishonest , because people who refuse to die on day 27 after diagnosis. and inconveniently clog up ICU beds for an additional few weeks get removed from the statistics. So even though i have no vote in UK Elections, I would blame BJ. .. And what is more pertinent, my cousin in London would blame him as well.
All in your opinion Danidl.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
12,861
5,281
The FOI details that of the 17,371 Covid deaths in the recording period, 3,774 were people under the age of 65, with 13,597 over the age of 65.


Status of COVID-19
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK. There are many diseases which can cause serious illness which are not classified as HCIDs.

The 4 nations public health HCID group made an interim recommendation in January 2020 to classify COVID-19 as an HCID. This was based on consideration of the UK HCID criteria about the virus and the disease with information available during the early stages of the outbreak. Now that more is known about COVID-19, the public health bodies in the UK have reviewed the most up to date information about COVID-19 against the UK HCID criteria. They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.

5.Provisional deaths registered in 2021
There were 549,367 deaths registered in England and 36,141 in Wales in 2021 (January to December




YearNumber
of deaths
Population
(Thousands)
Crude mortality
rate (per
100,000
population)
Age-standardised
mortality rate
(per 100,000
population)
2020608,00259,8291,016.201,043.50
2019530,84159,440893.1925
2018541,58959,116916.1965.4
2017533,25358,745907.7965.3
2016525,04858,381899.3966.9
2015529,65557,885915993.2
2014501,42457,409873.4953
2013506,79056,948889.9985.9
2012499,33156,568882.7987.4
2011484,36756,171862.3978.6
2010493,24255,692885.71,017.10
2009491,34855,235889.61,033.80
2008509,09054,842928.31,091.90
2007504,05254,387926.81,091.80
2006502,59953,951931.61,104.30
2005512,99353,575957.51,143.80
2004514,25053,152967.51,163.00
2003539,15152,8631,019.901,232.10
2002535,35652,6021,017.701,231.30
2001532,49852,3601,017.001,236.20
2000537,87752,1401,031.601,266.40
1999553,53251,9331,065.801,320.20
1998553,43551,7201,070.101,327.20
1997558,05251,5601,082.301,350.80
1996563,00751,4101,095.101,372.50
1995565,90251,2721,103.701,392.00
1994551,78051,1161,079.501,374.90
1993578,51250,9861,134.701,453.40
1992558,31350,8761,097.401,415.00
1991570,04450,7481,123.301,464.30
1990564,84650,5611,117.201,462.60


 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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is there any other that matters?
Afraid not, just yours.. OG and Woosh might not quite agree. But fair point.
You do normally talk sense and express your opinions politely but in this case, if I agreed, well we, d just both be wrong wouldn't we.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,128
14,216
West West Wales
Am just imagining at some point in the coming days/weeks/months, the entire railway system simultaneously putting out an announcement on every PA system on the rail network: The tory government has just hit the buffers. A replacement PM will be along shortly.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
50,842
28,680
Moreover the UK figure of 2247 per million is skewed and in my opinion dishonest , because people who refuse to die on day 27 after diagnosis. and inconveniently clog up ICU beds for an additional few weeks get removed from the statistics.
Not entirely so though.

The little over 72,000 deaths as being due to Covid-19 in 2020 was the figure after recalculation as deaths up to 60 days following a positive test.

The deaths in 2021 remain at the 28 days figure at present. Since the first 11 months to match the 2020 total Covid period also returned the same just over 72,000 on the 28 day basis, the true death rate for 2021 was much higher than 2020's.
.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,475
12,067
71
Ireland
Not entirely so though.

The little over 72,000 deaths as being due to Covid-19 in 2020 was the figure after recalculation as deaths up to 60 days following a positive test.

The deaths in 2021 remain at the 28 days figure at present. Since the first 11 months to match the 2020 total Covid period also returned the same just over 72,000 on the 28 day basis, the true death rate for 2021 was much higher than 2020's.
.
Thsnks for the correction.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,353
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78
Told you before it impossible to prove a negative. I reckon Martians caused pandemic, you prove otherwise. It's upto you to prove your assumption. You, ve said it at least half a dozen times now.
If it's case who is responsible for French, Italian or American deaths? I can guess. Boris.
Can I quote you on that last sentence? :D
 
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jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
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And I thought the Whigs had been subsumed into liberals and tories many years ago...
In another unfunny (but perplexing) sense, tory infighting is evidently not ideological, fabricant, staunch defender of the piglet, is even more right wing pro brexit than Davis..
 
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GLJoe

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 21, 2017
828
387
UK
Anyone here ever had shingles?

I've a nasty feeling that this has been festering away since my Pfizer/BioNTech booster vaccine. But it wasn't until the pain/rash areas were very obviously the same as the very mild discomfort I've had through December that I thought of a connection. There are quite a few reports around though most occurred mush sooner.

Not for one minute claiming this is proof of anything, but I have a suspicion.


View attachment 45320
I spoke to someone in work this morning who commented that a couple of people had come down with shingles (and others are off with various other milder afflictions) - and I remembered this post.

Hmmm. I recall a warning some time ago that one of the side effects of the covid vaccinations is that your general immune system gets suppressed more and more with each booster, and so we should expect to see an increase of other autoimmune based illnesses.
IIRC, isn't shingles one of those things where many people have a virus, continually lingering in your body, mostly dormant - kept in check by your natural immune system. But then in periods of some kind of immuno-suppression or other triggering, it can flare up again (kind of like a cold sore on your lip I guess?).

What really concerned me though, was at the same time as the above warning, the doctors that were discussing it were also talking about how the body is constantly fighting off and destroying cancerous cells each and every day, and they were concerned that this natural process is also going to get suppressed. So while things like shingles are no laughing matter, when I heard that, I really got worried :(
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,128
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West West Wales
I spoke to someone in work this morning who commented that a couple of people had come down with shingles (and others are off with various other milder afflictions) - and I remembered this post.

Hmmm. I recall a warning some time ago that one of the side effects of the covid vaccinations is that your general immune system gets suppressed more and more with each booster, and so we should expect to see an increase of other autoimmune based illnesses.
IIRC, isn't shingles one of those things where many people have a virus, continually lingering in your body, mostly dormant - kept in check by your natural immune system. But then in periods of some kind of immuno-suppression or other triggering, it can flare up again (kind of like a cold sore on your lip I guess?).

What really concerned me though, was at the same time as the above warning, the doctors that were discussing it were also talking about how the body is constantly fighting off and destroying cancerous cells each and every day, and they were concerned that this natural process is also going to get suppressed. So while things like shingles are no laughing matter, when I heard that, I really got worried :(
Yes - it is a recurrence of Chickenpox which has lain dormant in or round nerve cells since original infection (for me, that was pre-1962).

I had two AV vaccinations in early 2021 - both in left arm. After a few months, there was still a very minor skin issue. I'd keep finding tiny blisters around the injections sites. I'd touch the area like when we fold our arms and feel a tiny rough/dry patch. A quick scratch and a tiny amount of clear liquid would appear. In itself, absolutely nothing. I did Yellow Card it as it was not a listed side effect.

Between my Pfizer/BioNTech "booster" (in my right arm, by choice) in mid-November, and mid-December, I got some very minor discomfort in my neck, under my chin, etc., which I thought could have been due to thyroid issues (I take thyroid hormone every day).

GP had a look/feel and decided it was probably nothing. But said to go back if it changed.

Carried on pretty much the same until two weeks ago - when the shingles appeared on my left neck/shoulder/ear/scalp. The overlap between the areas affected by the earlier discomfort and shingles was close - though shingles has been considerably more extensive.

I am neither convinced there is a causal relationship - nor that there isn't.

Regarding cancer, I recognise what you say, but am still sceptical in every direction.

BTW - The blisters have become scabs. Continue with itching, pain, poor sleep and generally feeling sorry for myself.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
50,842
28,680
BTW - The blisters have become scabs. Continue with itching, pain, poor sleep and generally feeling sorry for myself.
Welcome to the club.

Went to bed last night about 23.45. Woke up at 3.10am and then couldn't get to sleep again until some time after 6am. Woke from that second sleep at 9.35am and got up still feeling very tired and still with all the aches and pains of 85 years. At least I didn't suffer the painful tachycardia of six of the previous 16 nights.

I'm long beyond feeling sorry for myself though, it's my fault for taking so much care to avoid fatal accidents all my life.
.
 
Last edited:

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,475
12,067
71
Ireland
Yes - it is a recurrence of Chickenpox which has lain dormant in or round nerve cells since original infection (for me, that was pre-1962).

I had two AV vaccinations in early 2021 - both in left arm. After a few months, there was still a very minor skin issue. I'd keep finding tiny blisters around the injections sites. I'd touch the area like when we fold our arms and feel a tiny rough/dry patch. A quick scratch and a tiny amount of clear liquid would appear. In itself, absolutely nothing. I did Yellow Card it as it was not a listed side effect.

Between my Pfizer/BioNTech "booster" (in my right arm, by choice) in mid-November, and mid-December, I got some very minor discomfort in my neck, under my chin, etc., which I thought could have been due to thyroid issues (I take thyroid hormone every day).

GP had a look/feel and decided it was probably nothing. But said to go back if it changed.

Carried on pretty much the same until two weeks ago - when the shingles appeared on my left neck/shoulder/ear/scalp. The overlap between the areas affected by the earlier discomfort and shingles was close - though shingles has been considerably more extensive.

I am neither convinced there is a causal relationship - nor that there isn't.

Regarding cancer, I recognise what you say, but am still sceptical in every direction.

BTW - The blisters have become scabs. Continue with itching, pain, poor sleep and generally feeling sorry for myself.
Oyster ... Had you taken the cure I suggested, and my father developed, it would all be a bad memory. That was my experience!!!
GI .. Shingles tends to occur when one is" run down" for whatever reason ..along with stys in eyes, Verruca, warts on hands , and this is not an unusual time of the year. Lack of exercise, excess food at Christmas all contributing
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,128
14,216
West West Wales
A resignation!

Treasury minister announces shock resignation in Lords in protest at government mishandling of fraudulent Covid business payments

Lord Agnew of Oulton has resigned his post as a minister based jointly in the Treasury and in the Cabinet Office in a surprise statement from the despatch box in the House or Lords. He said he was quitting because of his disapproval of the government’s response to the problem of fraudulent Covid business payments. He told peers:

Given that I am the minister for counter fraud, it would be somewhat dishonest to stay on in that role if I am incapable of doing it properly.

It is for this reason that I have sadly decided to tender my resignation as a minister across the Treasury and Cabinet Office with immediate affect.
Last week the government admitted that it expected to write off more than £4bn in Covid payments that were claimed fraudulently.

Agnew received a rare round of applause in the Lords after he ended his statement.

Angela Smith, the Labour leader in the Lords, said:

I think we have just witnessed one of the most dramatic moments we have ever seen in the house from a minister who felt his integrity could no longer ensure he remained a member of the government.
 

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