Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

A reader comment in the Independent
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Real European 5 hours ago
You write: "The bureaucrats in charge of the EU " Names and job titles please. Do name them. Because in reality this is who rules the EU: === 1. POLITICAL leadership of the EU === The highest political leadership of the EU is the EU Council. It consists of the Prime Ministers and Presidents of teh EU member states, namely Merkel (Germany), Tsipras (Greece), Sanchez (Spain), Costa (Portugal), Loefven (Sweden), Muscat (Malta), Pellegrini (Slovakia), Iohannis (Romania), Borisov (Bulgaria), Varadkar (Ireland), Anastasiades (Cyprus), Pjenkovic (Croatia), Orban (Hungary), , Kurz (Austria), Rasmussen (Denmark), Michel (Belgium), Rutte (Netherlands), Cerar (Slovenia), Ratas (Estonia), Bettel (Luxembourg), Sipila (Finland), Babis (Czech Republic), Morawiecki (Poland), May (United Kingdom), Kucinskis (Latvia), Macron (France), Conte (Italy) and Grybauskaite (Lithuania). Please allow this to sink in for a while, as it means the political decision making power actually rests with the member states. Each of them has 1 vote. Important issues require a unanimous vote. === 2. LEGISLATIVE decision making power === The legislative decision making power is shared by two bodies: the Council (of national ministers!) and the EU parliament. Only if both agree on the final wording of a bill, does it become law This is how the legislative decision making process of teh EU works: - Step 1: the only competences the EU has, are defined in the treaties which require a majority vote on the *parliaments* of all the member states withoute exception. Only within those areas of competence, given to it by the national parliaments, can the EU regulate. - Step 2: the EU commission then launches proposal (that's all it can do, it has no decision power) to turn treaties into practice and make sure that all member states adhere to the treaties - Step 3: when a proposal is launched, the NATIONAL PARLIAMENTS of the member states are informed first. If one third of them object to the issue being regulated by the EU and opine it should be regulated at a lower level (national, regional, local) , the proposal is stopped and sent back to the Commission that can either abandon or amend the proposal or can justify why it thinks it is best regulated at EU level before resubmitting it. If half of the national parliaments object, it's end of story for the propsal. As such, the national parliaments function as a Virtual Chamber of the EU and the EU can never regulate against the national parliaments. - Step 4: If the proposal gets past the Virtual Chamber of the national parliaments, it is passed on to the Council (of national ministers of the EU member states) and to the EU parliament who each can amend, reject or adopt the proposal. Only if both the Council (of National Ministers) and the EU Parliament agree on a final wording of the proposal, does it become law. Meaning that the legislative decision making power rests with the member states and with the EU parliament. === 3. What then are Juncker and Tusk? === Donald Tusk is the chairman of the EU Concil. He was elected by the Prime Ministers and Presidents of the member states with 27 of the 28 votes, while he only required a majority of the votes. He chairs the EU council meetings but HAS NOT VOTE on the EU council. JC Junker JC Juncker is the chairman of the EU Commission. A candidate fo rthis job requires a double majority to get elected: After the EU Parliamentary elections, each of the political groups in the EU parliament put forward their candidate - called Spitzenkandidaten. They each try to rally the support of as many MEPs as possible with public speaches etc. Eventually one candidate emerges who is backed by most MEPs. This candidate is then presented to the EU council (which consists of the Prime MInisters and Presidents of the EU member states), where he requires a qualified majority (55% of the member states representing 65% of the people) to be successful. Following a successful election in the EU Council, he then needs a majority vote of the actual number of seats in the EU Parliament..

You and I have pointed this out repeatedly in shorter form OG, the EU is undoubtedly a democratic body. It and its courts have certainly represented our individual interests much better than our UK governments have ever done.

Which is why Rees Mogg and co. hate it so much, their interests being better served by us remaining subjects rather than citizens with rights. The Tory obsession with getting rid of the excellent and valuable Human Rights Act is the obvious proof of this.
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[flecc]

I am not particularly worried about deficit of democracy in the EU - I am worried about the EU seeking to increase its field of competence into regulating most aspects of our life, thus removing accountability from people we elect directly. They just use the EU as excuse for anything that goes wrong.

Only because our governments are too lazy and incompetent. EU measures are usually subject to local variation, either at proposal stage or after. Take the two wheel type approval and the rules for pedelec exemption. We had six months from introduction to seek variation, but no-one in government bothered. And from then on we could set the usage rules and still can. But again, our government doesn't care enough about what we need, only their own personal selfish needs. The EU proposes good, but we are largely free to accept only as much of that as we want.

I think we'd all better off to have a bit less of 'frictionless trade'.
Factories will adapt quickly to a little delay at the ports.

They can't. To be competitive means "just in time" manufacturing, in which no delay is acceptable. Delays mean production stoppages, higher costs and uncompetitiveness.
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[Danidl]

I am not particularly worried about deficit of democracy in the EU - I am worried about the EU seeking to increase its field of competence into regulating most aspects of our life, thus removing accountability from people we elect directly. They just use the EU as excuse for anything that goes wrong.

I think we'd all better off to have a bit less of 'frictionless trade'.
Factories will adapt quickly to a little delay at the ports.

Factories adopting quickly to a little delay.... Perhaps if the current practice is buying in a container from the far East every 4 months,and storing it in the yard. But modern practice is integrated flow paths, with items being worked on in multiple locations ,any delays create costs,and maybe (usually ) deterioration. The movement of foodstuffs , milk ,butter, Bailey's Cream , beef , pizza, mushrooms, strawberries, lettuce, in my local environment being cases in point.

 

[Danidl]

Just a few straws in the wind...

Amazon’s UK boss has warned the country’s Brexit secretary Dominic Raab, that Britain would face “civil unrest” within weeks of a no-deal Brexit, adding the online retailer’s voice to a growing list of businesses voicing concerns .

Ryanair comment..
Ryanair said on Monday that it believes there is a significant chance of a no-deal scenario. “We remain concerned by the danger of a hard (“no-deal”) Brexit in March 2019,” the Dublin-based carrier said in a statement.
“While there is a view that a 21-month transition agreement from March 2019 to December 2020 will be implemented (and extended), recent events in the UK political sphere have added to this uncertainty, and we believe that the risk of a hard Brexit is being underestimated.”

 

[oldgroaner]

Just a few straws in the wind...

Amazon’s UK boss has warned the country’s Brexit secretary Dominic Raab, that Britain would face “civil unrest” within weeks of a no-deal Brexit, adding the online retailer’s voice to a growing list of businesses voicing concerns .

Ryanair comment..
Ryanair said on Monday that it believes there is a significant chance of a no-deal scenario. “We remain concerned by the danger of a hard (“no-deal”) Brexit in March 2019,” the Dublin-based carrier said in a statement.
“While there is a view that a 21-month transition agreement from March 2019 to December 2020 will be implemented (and extended), recent events in the UK political sphere have added to this uncertainty, and we believe that the risk of a hard Brexit is being underestimated.”

Well I for one shall turn ugly [emoji41]

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Zlatan]

Well I for one shall turn ugly [emoji41]

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

It's easy for some of us, just not quite revolting .. But given time...

 

[Woosh]

The movement of foodstuffs , milk ,butter, Bailey's Cream , beef , pizza, mushrooms, strawberries, lettuce, in my local environment being cases in point.

so you think they are going to hold up the lorry while testing samples for GM traces? Of course not.
the real difficulty is for the long term when the UK has built up sufficient trade to seriously reduce purchasing from the EU27.
In the short term, it's just a political agenda.
The EU's agenda is simple enough: a binary choice, in or out. Recently, one of the people close to Michel Barnier says that A50 can only be extended if we have a second referendum, ie good chance to cancel brexit altogether.
the EU wants to kick that free trade deal down the road and talk about FTA as little as possible because whatever that FTA is, some will see it as not punishing enough while others will see it as changes to the EU structure or too many concessions made.
If I were TM, I'll go for a hard border in NI after the transition.

 

[oyster]

so you think they are going to hold up the lorry while testing samples for GM traces? Of course not.

The might not have testing stations set up for that - but they might well want to check that the documents declare that correctly.

 

[Woosh]

The might not have testing stations set up for that - but they might well want to check that the documents declare that correctly.

in or out, they do that by sampling anyway.
Most shipments are cleared customs up to 1 day in advance.
If I remember correctly, about 7% of containers/lorries are pulled for inspection to check that the declaration is accurate. If there is a long queue, they simply pull fewer containers/lorries.

 

[oldgroaner]

It's easy for some of us, just not quite revolting .. But given time...

I'm sure you won't let the side down..

 

[oldgroaner]

the real difficulty is for the long term when the UK has built up sufficient trade to seriously reduce purchasing from the EU27.

By that time they will be Teleporting goods directly to customers on another planet.

 

[Danidl]

in or out, they do that by sampling anyway.
Most shipments are cleared customs up to 1 day in advance.
If I remember correctly, about 7% of containers/lorries are pulled for inspection to check that the declaration is accurate. If there is a long queue, they simply pull fewer containers/lorries.

Wishful thinking.... Woosh you have been involved in a engineering capacity in a manufacturing business..parhaps many. The current model involves items moving freely between different facilities,where work is done, value added and then moved along. In a real sense the motorways and the traffic along it are the warehouses. Any delays in this process will either damage goods or raise costs. The difference in production between a system running smoothly at full capacity and grinding to a halt by even minor overruns is enormous.
If the trucks are carrying livestock, even minor delays are serious.

 

[Danidl]

Tommie regarding the comments about air traffic post BREXIt., A little more analysis. While British newspapers were very quick to jump on our Leo's comments, as outrageous, perhaps they should have looked a little deeper. The overflying of another country is covered by apparently the Chicago convention, and would not be affected by any BREXIt. Linked with that would be air traffic control over the north Atlantic.
However the right to take off or land on states within Europe is governed by a patchwork of agreements linked by EU open sky's policy, and post BREXIt the UK will be outside this. Unless an airline is majority controlled and headquarter ed in the EU, they are outside it.... (That will make an interesting case for Aer Lingus, as BA are the owners!. ).
Unless there are agreement's in place , which are not yet public knowledge, travel to the UK, could get restricted, very quickly..
That is not bullying he was stating facts,

 

[flecc]

If I were TM, I'll go for a hard border in NI after the transition.

Certainly the simplest and Europolitically most sensible solution, which the EU have no problem with. There'd be ructions in Ireland though.
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[anotherkiwi]

I am not particularly worried about deficit of democracy in the EU - I am worried about the EU seeking to increase its field of competence into regulating most aspects of our life, thus removing accountability from people we elect directly. They just use the EU as excuse for anything that goes wrong.

I think we'd all better off to have a bit less of 'frictionless trade'.
Factories will adapt quickly to a little delay at the ports.

It isn't trying to do anything other than harmonise laws, rules and regulations across 28 nation states. Those countries are very different and a couple have regulations for most aspects of life in place already where some have hardly any. The German bicycle safety regulations are horrible! They want only OEM parts on bikes as replacements, so the same tyres and tubes, the same brakes etc. etc as from the factory. Luckily the Netherlands are not 100% on board with this. That is how the EU works, push and pull, give and take. If the UK sent normal members to the EU parliament you would have a reasonable say on what gets done and how, but no, you sent the UKIP... Self harm is a real issue with you folk isn't it?

The English (part of the UK) think they have the worlds best legal system, the French have the Napoleon code, the Germans are a nanny state busy making everything a child can touch "safe" (post war trauma syndrome?) have you been to a children's playground recently? Lucky for us kids still find ways of hurting themselves with ultra safe EU normalised (German regulation compliant) playground games, it is a necessary part of growing up.

Have you read the French road code concerning bikes recently? It was written before deaf and blind zombies regularly invade cycle paths so little tiny beep-beep horns are illegal on a bike in France, another law I am about to break... In other parts of the EU these are perfectly legal.

States are nanny, the EU is just trying to harmonise. Not an easy task, maybe easier when the UK is gone because everything must be done the English way...

 

[tommie]

Tommie regarding the comments about air traffic post BREXIt., A little more analysis. While British newspapers were very quick to jump on our Leo's comments, as outrageous, perhaps they should have looked a little deeper. The overflying of another country is covered by apparently the Chicago convention, and would not be affected by any BREXIt. Linked with that would be air traffic control over the north Atlantic.
However the right to take off or land on states within Europe is governed by a patchwork of agreements linked by EU open sky's policy, and post BREXIt the UK will be outside this. Unless an airline is majority controlled and headquarter ed in the EU, they are outside it.... (That will make an interesting case for Aer Lingus, as BA are the owners!. ).
Unless there are agreement's in place , which are not yet public knowledge, travel to the UK, could get restricted, very quickly..
That is not bullying he was stating facts,

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/ireland-will-have-hardest-border-in-europe-if-uk-doesnt-reach-brexit-deal-ally-of-merkel-warns-37142875.html

I would pass this on to Leo asap.

"In a blunt warning detailing the catastrophe that lies ahead if a “no-deal” Brexit materialises, Joachim Pfeiffer – a key ally of Chancellor Merkel – painted a dire picture of the outcome.


Mr Pfeiffer said Ireland would “have a border like we have a border with Ukraine, or Belarus” as there would no longer be treaties in place with the UK that would ensure the rules and standards of the EU would be respected.

“We cannot solve the problem between Ireland and Northern Ireland,” added the economic and energy policy spokesman for the CDU/CSU parliamentary group in Germany.

Senior French sources have also told Independent.ie that under a hard Brexit, Ireland is primarily accountable to the EU and its single market.

As the country at the frontline, Ireland will be obliged to prevent such substandard goods getting into the internal market.

It’ll be “the hardest border we have in Europe”.

Mr Pfeiffer said it will be Ireland’s responsibility to erect and manage the Border on the EU side, and the UK’s task to manage the territory of Northern Ireland.

He said that other European countries had their own problems to resolve.

“For you it’s a problem but in Germany nobody is thinking about Brexit.

“We cannot solve the problem between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

“Hopefully we can resolve this through negotiation, but I advise Ireland to get ready.”

Senior French sources have also warned Ireland over its accountability to the EU and its single market.

“I’m sorry to say that Ireland may find itself at a harsh confrontation where it must obey the rules of the single market ahead of the political landscape with Britain,” a French source said.

It`s clear there`s a change of wind direction coming from Brussels, are they letting you down gently??
The tone now seems to be it`s Ireland's problem if there`s no deal, Ireland will have to look after a Hard Border and all that entails.

 

[Woosh]

Wishful thinking.... Woosh you have been involved in a engineering capacity in a manufacturing business..parhaps many. The current model involves items moving freely between different facilities,where work is done, value added and then moved along. In a real sense the motorways and the traffic along it are the warehouses. Any delays in this process will either damage goods or raise costs. The difference in production between a system running smoothly at full capacity and grinding to a halt by even minor overruns is enormous.
If the trucks are carrying livestock, even minor delays are serious.

I am well aware of the benefit of the current system, I wanted to setup Woosh in France and have been looking into these issues for a long time. If I could find someone like d8veh to do my job, I'd be in France by the end of the month.

 

[oyster]

in or out, they do that by sampling anyway.
Most shipments are cleared customs up to 1 day in advance.

But that is under current regime..

 

[Woosh]

But that is under current regime..

my containers from China got pulled for inspection only three times in 8 years.

 

[oldgroaner]

I am not particularly worried about deficit of democracy in the EU - I am worried about the EU seeking to increase its field of competence into regulating most aspects of our life, thus removing accountability from people we elect directly. They just use the EU as excuse for anything that goes wrong.

I think we'd all better off to have a bit less of 'frictionless trade'.
Factories will adapt quickly to a little delay at the ports.

Do you know I never knew that.
Are there really people who give a Tinkers Cuss about the voters?

What's all this "accountability from people we elect directly" business?
That will never catch on, oh Deary me no !

You will be expecting Lord Nigel to turn up for work next!