Charger Problem / A Cautionary Tale

[aseb]

I bought a 20Ah LiFePO4 battery all of 18 months ago from cammy_cc off ebay and have only just got round to fitting it- I've just managed with the original batteries but range has decreased a lot recently. When delivered the parcel was damaged- the controller board had been broken, the charger socket broken, with damage to the battery casing. Cammy_cc sent a replacement controller, I bought the replacement socket from Maplin, and the damaged casing was deemed minimal with no electrical damage caused. He was helpful, but it took quite a few emails and weeks to get it all sorted.

I got round to fitting the battery, making sure it was charged. I only got 20 miles from that first charge, not what I'd been expecting but it had been a long time since supply. The battery cut off was quite sharp and sudden compared to the original Lithium batteries, and happened at a higher Voltage according to the leds on the throttle.
I went to charge the battery but the charger cut out after a quick spin of the cooling fan. After a few tries with this problem of cutting out, so out with the screwdrivers- after a bit of examination a small board with 3 led charge indicators on had 3 dry joints. Re-soldered, battery on charge, a better range of 25 miles this time.
Back to the third charge- nothing! the charger is dead.

So I emailed Cammy_cc for advice, and asked the price of a replacement. After several emails (all polite) back and forth I repeated the request for replacement price I said although not used it was over a year old. He had asked what kind of charger it was, and I said a metal 220V 36V 5A one, Cammy said he didn't supply that kind. I sent a picture, details of the original ebay transaction, and confirmed that this is the only LiFePO4 battery I have ever bought- the only other charger I have is for the original LiIon battery and has 1.5Ah output.

His response:
dear friend,
yes , you bought a 36v 20ah battery from us , but the charger comes with the charger , it's plastic.
you gave the picture is iron charger .
we don't know when you buy the iron charger from us .
sorry about that .
best regards
cammy

and has ignored me since then. Never ever gave me a replacement cost. I would have been very happy if I had got a lower price replacement, but never asked for this.

So if you are looking to buy a LiFePO4 battery, or other parts please consider the above when choosing your supplier.
(I will post again if a belated response appears).

 

[Fordulike]

Thank for the info aseb.
It just goes to show that these suppliers need to address the problems with long distance delivery.
I'm sure they don't leave the factory damaged, so that just leaves rough handling with the delivery companies.
We all know that their workers aren't going to handle thousands of parcels with kid gloves.
Therefore that leaves it in the hands of the supplier to package their goods better.
After all, they must have loads of cases just like yours, where they have to supply a replacement due to damage in the post.
This is why people like Ping get such rave reviews, coz they have sorted out the pit falls already from experience.

 

[Old Timer]

Hiya Aseb

18 months before you used the battery? surely that was the honeymoon period for any battery.

When I purchased my Lipo4 from here 36V 15AH LIFEPO4 Lithium Battery electric bicycle bike on eBay (end time 01-Dec-10 09:18:00 GMT) it came very very well packaged to the point of being over packed, the box and packing weighed almost as much as the battery

It`s a shame that the few seem to give the many a bad name. I purchase loads of stuff on E bay and in general apart from the occasional late posting things go quite well but then speak of the devil and I have two cases on the go at present with E bay from non delivered non responding sellers in the UK. Now if I were new to buying from E bay it might have put me off but with over 500 purchases through them I know the system works fine.

 

[jbond]

I bought a 20Ah LiFePO4 battery all of 18 months ago

The battery cut off was quite sharp and sudden compared to the original Lithium batteries, and happened at a higher Voltage according to the leds on the throttle.

This caught my eye, especially with Old Timer's other post about LiOn vs LiFePo.

I think there's a gotcha here. Let's say you have a setup of LiOn plus controller with a low voltage cut off set in the controller of 32v. But your new LiFePo battery really needs a low voltage cut off of 30v. What you'll see is the cut off happen early when the battery is still giving lots of current and power.

I think if you swap from LiOn to LiFePo you really need to adjust the controller LVC to suit, or set that too low and use an external LVC in a cycle analyst , or rely on the batteries internal BMS LVC and those options may not always be possible given the setup of the original complete system.

 

[theskip1]

I bought a 20Ah LiFePO4 battery all of 18 months ago from cammy_cc off ebay and have only just got round to fitting it- I've just managed with the original batteries but range has decreased a lot recently. When delivered the parcel was damaged- the controller board had been broken, the charger socket broken, with damage to the battery casing. Cammy_cc sent a replacement controller, I bought the replacement socket from Maplin, and the damaged casing was deemed minimal with no electrical damage caused. He was helpful, but it took quite a few emails and weeks to get it all sorted.

I got round to fitting the battery, making sure it was charged. I only got 20 miles from that first charge, not what I'd been expecting but it had been a long time since supply. The battery cut off was quite sharp and sudden compared to the original Lithium batteries, and happened at a higher Voltage according to the leds on the throttle.
I went to charge the battery but the charger cut out after a quick spin of the cooling fan. After a few tries with this problem of cutting out, so out with the screwdrivers- after a bit of examination a small board with 3 led charge indicators on had 3 dry joints. Re-soldered, battery on charge, a better range of 25 miles this time.
Back to the third charge- nothing! the charger is dead.

So I emailed Cammy_cc for advice, and asked the price of a replacement. After several emails (all polite) back and forth I repeated the request for replacement price I said although not used it was over a year old. He had asked what kind of charger it was, and I said a metal 220V 36V 5A one, Cammy said he didn't supply that kind. I sent a picture, details of the original ebay transaction, and confirmed that this is the only LiFePO4 battery I have ever bought- the only other charger I have is for the original LiIon battery and has 1.5Ah output.

His response:
dear friend,
yes , you bought a 36v 20ah battery from us , but the charger comes with the charger , it's plastic.
you gave the picture is iron charger .
we don't know when you buy the iron charger from us .
sorry about that .
best regards
cammy

and has ignored me since then. Never ever gave me a replacement cost. I would have been very happy if I had got a lower price replacement, but never asked for this.

So if you are looking to buy a LiFePO4 battery, or other parts please consider the above when choosing your supplier.
(I will post again if a belated response appears).

this sounds very much like the conversation i had when wanting to by replacement cells. although my battery was vpower it was bought through a third party so i asked vpower about the price . i got totaly ignored. he to started each email " hi friend " . makes you wonder if these chinees vendors are all the same person ?.

 

[daniel.weck]

You can read a lot of negative feedback on forums, about vpower.hk, CAMMY_CC, power_battery_a123, ep-battery, volgood....they're basically the same people behind the scenes, probably the same production facilities too.

For LiFePO4 batteries I always advise buying from Li-Ping, who not only is a reputable and reliable seller with good english skills, but who also provides one of the smallest and most efficient BMS circuitry, all packaged tightly next to the battery cells, and sent in a nicely padded parcel. His products are priced competitively too (come with a simple but robust 2.5A charger), so I wouldn't try anything else just to save a few pennies. LiFePO4 batteries are supposed to be long-lasting, so one might as well invest in the long term.

Photos here:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4734-diy-stage-2-received-li-ping-lifepo4-battery-photos.html#post59988

 

[Alex728]

this sounds very much like the conversation i had when wanting to by replacement cells. although my battery was vpower it was bought through a third party so i asked vpower about the price . i got totaly ignored. he to started each email " hi friend " . makes you wonder if these chinees vendors are all the same person ?.

There is a tactic on the Internet called "blowfishing" where a small business uses many multiple brands to look bigger than it actually is. Lots of businesses do this (not just Chinese ones). Often it works fine until they get more orders than their customer service can handle, then of course their staff cherry pick the big orders or the easy jobs.

I think though (especially being part Chinese myself) it goes a lot deeper than cultural/language problems.

Chaps like Mr Ping and Mr Ching (!) are a bit older and have a paternalistic or avuncular attitude to their businesses, like how English companies were run in the old days but with "Chinese characteristics". They are strict to their staff but also look after them if they do well.

Actually David from Wisper (who isn't Chinese) seems a bit like this in his manner (this is no bad thing though!)

A lot of other Chinese/HK companies are run by 20 somethings even into director level and their emphasis is on quick money and "work as fun" rather than customer service - same as what happened with many English companies during the dotcom era or places like independent fashion and record/music shops. Even business ethics and basic courtesy can end up pushed to the back! Wherever in the world they are, without older managers keeping an eye on customer service/interactions the business can slowly decline until it goes bust..

 

[aseb]

This caught my eye, especially with Old Timer's other post about LiOn vs LiFePo.

I think there's a gotcha here. Let's say you have a setup of LiOn plus controller with a low voltage cut off set in the controller of 32v. But your new LiFePo battery really needs a low voltage cut off of 30v. What you'll see is the cut off happen early when the battery is still giving lots of current and power.

I think if you swap from LiOn to LiFePo you really need to adjust the controller LVC to suit, or set that too low and use an external LVC in a cycle analyst , or rely on the batteries internal BMS LVC and those options may not always be possible given the setup of the original complete system.

I've looked at some different controllers with this is mind but having problems finding this, they've varied but none at 30V. I started a different thread with this in mind.