Global Freezing, Warming or Neutral?

[flecc]

The vast majority of Climate scientists disagree with you there.

If the trifling things we are doing convince the climate scientists they will make a difference, there obviously isn't a problem of any size to threaten us.

We live in an age of hysteria and gross over reaction John, and the current situation shows that only too clearly.

The winter of 1947 was the worst of all in living memory, but this 11 year old at the time walked to school alone as ever, getting there on time every day, despite the snow and real and imaginary paedophiles. So did all the other kids, none absent or late, and neither were the teachers.

The next worse winter in 1962 saw all of us getting to work ok, almost all on time as well and virtually no absenteeism.

The wimps and nanny state types include those climate scientists and politicians who see every conceivable problem at every opportunity and over react accordingly. Fortunately as this thread shows, there are still many of us who keep a cool head.
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[JohnInStockie]

Whether we like it or not, we are effecting our environment. Every ounce of fuel that is burnt or turned into plastic is releasing toxins into the air and reducing what is an extremely valuable resource. Forests are being cleared and heavy metals mined, consumed and dumped (including by us lot on here).

This is all additional and in quantities beyond the natural cycles.

Does it make any difference, no-one knows for certain as it takes too long to be able to tell. Do we need trees at all? Why shouldnt we dump in the sea if the land fills are full?

I think common sense speaks more clearly than all the science and any ones beliefs.

 

[tonio]

Almost everyone agrees pollution is a problem. Its the assertion that global warming{if it exists}ix caused by c02 emissions. Plants take in the co2 to make the oxygen we breathe. YouTube - The Global Warming CO2 Scam Goverrnments are 'owned' by lobbyists { oil companies, pharmaceuticals etc},If not they would break free and invest seriously in alternative energy sources. its about Global govt and the new world order.

 

[Barnowl]

We live in an age of hysteria and gross over reaction John, and the current situation shows that only too clearly.

The winter of 1947 was the worst of all in living memory, but this 11 year old at the time walked to school alone as ever, getting there on time every day, despite the snow and real and imaginary paedophiles. So did all the other kids, none absent or late, and neither were the teachers.

The next worse winter in 1962 saw all of us getting to work ok, almost all on time as well and virtually no absenteeism.

The wimps and nanny state types include those climate scientists and politicians who see every conceivable problem at every opportunity and over react accordingly. Fortunately as this thread shows, there are still many of us who keep a cool head.
.

To be fair 1962 really was a different era. Far less cars and trucks on the road, probably more public transport, less communication options, less suiing, and a lot less people. In my day to day experience I haven't encountered any of the hysteria, mass absenteeism, panic buying and complaining that we read about in the press. The papers make most of it up like they do those overstated sub zero tempereatures.
Also many people stay at home because they can work equally effectively from home. This is good for them and better for those people that do have to travel.
I blame most of our problems on the PC(personal computer).

 

[flecc]

To be fair 1962 really was a different era. Far less cars and trucks on the road, probably more public transport, less communication options, less suiing, and a lot less people. In my day to day experience I haven't encountered any of the hysteria, mass absenteeism, panic buying and complaining that we read about in the press. The papers make most of it up like they do those overstated sub zero tempereatures.
Also many people stay at home because they can work equally effectively from home. This is good for them and better for those people that do have to travel.
I blame most of our problems on the PC(personal computer).

Some of those things like the amount of traffic were appreciably different, but I think you overstate the others. A change from about 50 millions to 60 millions of population is hardly detectable to the average person, there is mass absenteeism from the schools, 100% in huge areas like mine where the kids could easily walk to school. Only a tiny proportion of the population can work from home.

And the hysteria is blindingly obvious and self evident everywhere. The gross over protection of kids, the perception of a paedophile on every corner ready to snatch their kids, the refusal to let kids cycle, the perception that cycling is terribly dangerous for everyone else, the head teachers who won't open schools when the teachers and kids could easily walk there in only a few inches of snow as here at present, the expensive erection of tall high security fences around schools, the quoting of health and safety at every point where there's any human activity, all these are hysteria and anyone who doesn't recognise that is one of the hysterical.

I've watched all this happen in the space of just over two decades in the estate where I live, and I have to say I find it very disturbing and unhealthy. Kids have always misbehaved and I expect and tolerate that, but now that they have become the untouchables, certain of their own rights and confident of being protected all the time, many have become arrogant in the extreme and utterly contemptuous of anyone else's rights.
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[WALKERMAN]

Flecc, I find myself nodding agreement with you again as I read through your latest posting.
I haven't seen any kids out in the snow round here. When my kids were young the whole neighbourhood would be out having fun.
I see most of the football matches are postponed today as well because of health and safety issues about getting to and from the grounds. We went to our local Asda yesterday where there were hundreds of people, the roads were poor and the car park was terrible but the store hadn't been closed down. Where was H & S there?

 

[themutiny]

I live in the Portsmouth area, and I work in Epsom.

On tuesday night, I left work at 4pm. To cut a long story short, I did not get home until 2:45 pm on Wednesday. I slept on the floor of a pub (which was great - blitz spirit and all that) waited 5 hrs for a train that never arrived, and walked 4 miles in the snow with highly inappropriate footwear (not great, dangerous). I could not retrieve my car until Thursday, when the army & police assisted me.

I returned to work on Friday at 7am. Some of my colleagues, none of whom had been through the same experience, all of whom lived far closer than I, could not get to work on Friday because they were 'snowed in'.

Is it any wonder employers are sceptical......

 

[flecc]

That was a tough experience Nick, but it's a very fine example of the sort of spirit that was once common in Britain and still is in many other countries, the determination to overcome any difficulties and still perform as usual.

In various ways the authorities have seriously damaged the character of our society and we are likely to pay ever more dearly for it in future. As ever, such damaging changes are all too easy to introduce but will be extremely difficult if not impossible to reverse in future.

Although I've concentrated above on the changes of the last couple of decades, some would argue that the rot began with the introduction of the welfare state in the late 1940s, and there is certainly some truth in that with the dependancy culture that's followed.

Somewhere along the line there is a right balance between the interests, welfare and protection of the individual and the interests of society as a whole, but I think we have clearly overshot that point by a clear margin now.
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[themutiny]

thanks Tony. Actually, I ruminated at some length about the experience (from the comfort of home/hindsight) and decided that, on balance, it had been a positive experience. The 'let's all pull together' attitude and community spirit I experienced was something I had only previously read about. It was a reminder of attitudes seemingly long forgotten in current times - actually, pretty much unknown in my lifetime.

I would also add however,that once is in fact enough for this type of experience...

 

[HarryB]

The gross over protection of kids, the perception of a paedophile on every corner ready to snatch their kids, the refusal to let kids cycle, the perception that cycling is terribly dangerous for everyone else, the head teachers who won't open schools when the teachers and kids could easily walk there in only a few inches of snow as here at present, the expensive erection of tall high security fences around schools, the quoting of health and safety at every point where there's any human activity, all these are hysteria and anyone who doesn't recognise that is one of the hysterical.

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You will be pleased to know I have just come back from sledging near Gordon Hill. Plenty of kids there, with and without their parents and not a helmet in sight. Most people well enough behaved with lots of yelling get out of the way etc and much fun was had. What worried me is that they didn't seem to have a good idea of what a good sledge is. Really an upside down wooden pallet is never going to cut the mustard and as for a pressed steel bath (there were two of them) unless you pack them with 5 or 6 teenagers they aren't going to be much good.

 

[flecc]

Good to hear of large numbers out Hal. We have a quite a few out around here in this hilly area, but as a proportion of the large number of kids on the family estates here, it's very small.

As there, few have a proper sled, the oddest improvisation being large thick gauge polythene sacks which they lie on face down, holding the front seam up a bit off the ground. It sort of works, but best with those who manage to keep themselves very flat with the body weight evenly spread.
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[fishingpaul]

I live in the Portsmouth area, and I work in Epsom.

On tuesday night, I left work at 4pm. To cut a long story short, I did not get home until 2:45 pm on Wednesday. I slept on the floor of a pub (which was great - blitz spirit and all that) waited 5 hrs for a train that never arrived, and walked 4 miles in the snow with highly inappropriate footwear (not great, dangerous). I could not retrieve my car until Thursday, when the army & police assisted me.

I returned to work on Friday at 7am. Some of my colleagues, none of whom had been through the same experience, all of whom lived far closer than I, could not get to work on Friday because they were 'snowed in'.

Is it any wonder employers are sceptical......

Are these people not turning in still paid as normal at your company,and are they generally well looked after,or are they all fearing redundancy and being treated like numbers,at my company morale is at rock bottom many people have been made redundant,and some of the vacated jobs have been taken over by ex team leaders and management staff, instead of making many of them redundant, new titles for the old jobs like a redundant storeman has been replaced by a stores manager, titles have been created to get around the legalities,

 

[themutiny]

Whilst it is true to say that we have a restructure hanging over our heads, I doubt this has any real bearing, not least because apart from a possible change in reporting lines, it will be business as usual. These are well remunerated and well treated IT 'professionals' (sic)

 

[Barnowl]

Depends on the company but in many, I know, if you take a day off work because you're snowed in you lose the pay for that day. I didn't go into work on the Tuesday but it made no difference. Courtesy of swingeing head count reductions over the last 5 years I have plenty of work to do. For that day it could all be done via PC, broadband, 0800 audioconference facilty, and buisness mobile phone. Those that needed to be on site, as far as I know made it in. The schools and colleges in our area were only shut for that 1 day. The decision as far as I know is taken from on high so you can't blame the teachers or even the pupils.

 

[Barnowl]

Are these people not turning in still paid as normal at your company,and are they generally well looked after,or are they all fearing redundancy and being treated like numbers,at my company morale is at rock bottom many people have been made redundant,and some of the vacated jobs have been taken over by ex team leaders and management staff, instead of making many of them redundant, new titles for the old jobs like a redundant storeman has been replaced by a stores manager, titles have been created to get around the legalities,

It's much the same the same in a large part of IT. Add to that no salary awards, pay cuts, an end to final salary pension, and handing jobs over to India and it pretty much sums it up.

I returned to work on Friday at 7am. Some of my colleagues, none of whom had been through the same experience, all of whom lived far closer than I, could not get to work on Friday because they were 'snowed in'.

Is it any wonder employers are sceptical......

It would be interesting to know what percentage of so called "employers" didn't make it in to work.

 

[Barnowl]

Some of those things like the amount of traffic were appreciably different, but I think you overstate the others. A change from about 50 millions to 60 millions of population is hardly detectable to the average person, there is mass absenteeism from the schools, 100% in huge areas like mine where the kids could easily walk to school. Only a tiny proportion of the population can work from home.

And the hysteria is blindingly obvious and self evident everywhere. The gross over protection of kids, the perception of a paedophile on every corner ready to snatch their kids, the refusal to let kids cycle, the perception that cycling is terribly dangerous for everyone else, the head teachers who won't open schools when the teachers and kids could easily walk there in only a few inches of snow as here at present, the expensive erection of tall high security fences around schools, the quoting of health and safety at every point where there's any human activity, all these are hysteria and anyone who doesn't recognise that is one of the hysterical.

I've watched all this happen in the space of just over two decades in the estate where I live, and I have to say I find it very disturbing and unhealthy. Kids have always misbehaved and I expect and tolerate that, but now that they have become the untouchables, certain of their own rights and confident of being protected all the time, many have become arrogant in the extreme and utterly contemptuous of anyone else's rights.
.

I agree there's some hysterical people about but not many and certainly I wouldn't describe myself as such. I think hysteria is the wrong word and what we are seeing is a response to a blame society strongly encouraged by the press and TV. It's good for business.
Even if they'd kept those schools open all week I'm sure they'd have been condemned for causing chaos on the roads (and there would have been on Tuesday round these parts).
I think there are probably regional differences but generally I wouldn't disagree with you except to add that PCs and game stations are often responsible for keeping kids indoor. What would I have done if I'd had all that computing power at my disposal in 1962

PS: Interesting stats on traffic volumes "In 1961 there were fewer than 9 million licensed vehicles. By 1981 there were 19.3 million, and by 2005, 32.9 million. Private cars accounted for an increasing proportion of this total, 59 per cent in 1961, 77 per cent in 1981, and 80 per cent in 2005." Source: Department for Transport

 

[JohnInStockie]

Whilst it is true to say that we have a restructure hanging over our heads, I doubt this has any real bearing, not least because apart from a possible change in reporting lines, it will be business as usual. These are well remunerated and well treated IT 'professionals' (sic)

I think it depends on the company. If its a large corporate and the board says cut, then cut it is, with a big knife! All the work youve done, could do and any profits you have ever made make absolutley no difference today to where the knife falls.

I've seen this many times, seen the best people go in profitable businesses because of a 'repositioning' in the market.

Remember what happened in 2001, after the millenium bug? we saw all the major software companies downsize their IT 'professional' and ship work abroad.

John

 

[john]

One inconvenient fact is that the atmosphere's response to CO2 is logarithmic, so the first 100ppm increase has the same effect as the next 200 ppm increase etc.

Actually, the first 100 ppm increase has the same effect as the next 136 ppm increase. This is because it is a log of the ratio, concentration/baseline concentration, not a log of the increase.

 

[flecc]

Proof of the present day irrational hysteria that I referred to above.

We had a fresh fall of snow last night, and with no more salting and a severe overnight frost the side roads around here were very slippery and much worse than most of last week. Last week the schools were closed through health and safety panic, but expecting things to be better, they'd announced they'd be open this week.

So today they were open, the kids and teachers turned up for school this morning and I've just seen the parents there to collect their kids from school, either driving or walking as usual. Proof that the kids could have been in school throughout.
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[Barnowl]

Yes much the same here and the roads were much worse today than last week. It took me an hour to do a 4 mile journey. Dreadfull journey with lightweight car, rear wheel drive, thin tyres at the front, and short wheel base. At 9:30 there was still a lot of school traffic on the road. With the roads like ice rinks I imagine there'll be plenty of hysterical people with £350 excess penalties. No doubt premiums will go up accordingly this year.