January 22, 20233 yr Night cyclists with GoPro 7 Hero Black action cameras equally frustrated as I was, might find this in a Google search. People with newer GoPros or other new action cameras, may get better results than I did: Edited January 23, 20233 yr by guerney
January 26, 20233 yr Pity Gopro's are so expensive (hero10 €660) . The other clever options like Cycliq6 & 12 (Cam and Light combo's £169 + £229) are said to be unreliable? And like the cheaper Akaso's, e.g. Brave7 (a waterproof one £136) they can't pick up things at night. Tho that would be a big ask!
January 27, 20233 yr Author Pity Gopro's are so expensive (hero10 €660) . GoPro's pricing has gone mad. I thought it was only likely that the GoPro 7 Hero Black would do the job of recording clear number plates at night, but based on the Youtube samples I'd seen, I wasn't certain, therefore I didn't want to spend too much, and certainly didn't want to buy one from anywhere that would make it difficult to return or exchange for some other camera. Other GoPro night videographers had other priorities, and don't seem to have exlored the settings thoroughly... which to me is odd, because the settings I used are logical bets, for anyone used to shooting in low light using a DSLR: When you can't change the lens for something faster (with a lower "F" number, larger aperture, more radioactive lens [yes, really] etc.), or improve lighting conditions (@3600 lumens, my headlights are bright), you must change ISO and/or shutter speed - in this case higher shutter speed and ISO, because the scene isn't static. The GoPro 7 Hero Black isn't perfect at this, but it manages far more often than not. Curiously, I've noticed some number plates don't reflect much light at all, but those are quite rare. The good news is that sensors are only going to improve in low light sensitivity. After trading in an old phone, my GoPro 7 Hero Black cost £59.99 secondhand at a Cex shop (£165 without trade-in, prices have dropped by £40 since I bought mine "B" grade @£195 a couple of weeks ago, which is lovely): https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail?id=0818279023077b&categoryName=camcorders&superCatName=electronics&title=gopro-hero-7-black-b&referredFrom=search&queryID=76bca09be899d02dbafab0f76cf7d6e2&position=1 B grade: https://uk.support.webuy.com/support/solutions/articles/80001011621-how-are-your-items-graded- The other option was the DJI Osmo Action 3, but I hated that it won't do a damned thing until the camera is activated online using their app... which among other things, would allow DJI to intentionally brick it in future like Sonos: https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/02/sonos_deliberately_bricking_older_devices/ Also I had read on forums about the DJI Osmo Action 3's waterproofing and focus issues, the former of which at least, user [mention=34096]The Silverfox[/mention] hasn't experienced. The other clever options like Cycliq6 & 12 (Cam and Light combo's £169 + £229) are said to be unreliable? A used "B" grade GoPro 7 Hero Black from Cex at £165, is cheaper than both. The GoPros are also glitchy, but the Hero 7 Black is old and the firmware so mature, I assume it's less glitchy than the newer models are presently. GoPros: Although mostly due to firmware, much glitchiness can be attributed to use of substandard batteries which can't supply enough power - either because they're third party, or old originals - and use of SD cards too slow at writing and/or reading. It's surprising that my GoPro reports the SD card I use was manufactured in 2004 - I only bought it new last year. I bought my "New" "Opened, never used" original GoPro batteries here, they perform well: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313578217774 And like the cheaper Akaso's, e.g. Brave7 (a waterproof one £136) they can't pick up things at night. You can buy a used "B" grade GoPro 7 Hero Black from Cex for £165. I believe even my cheapo £40 Crosstour Action 4k would have been capable, if only they had included manual shutter control - sadly they copied GoPro's earlier cameras in terms of user option settings. It does well in daylight, useless at night. Cycliq6 The Cycliq 6's video quality looks awful, but it appears to be capable of recording slow moving and close number plates in daylight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ48P0zwBz8:4 Video quoted from here: https://road.cc/content/review/257830-cycliq-fly6-ce-camera-and-rear-light The Cyliq 12 CE appears to do better, in more favourable lighting conditions, but not as well as a current-ish GoPro would IMHO - looks to me likely there's too much motion blur to record number plates clearly, unless they're slow moving and fairly close. Unless it has manual shutter and ISO control, I wouldn't buy one: I'd try leaving the ISO on auto, turn any image stabilisation off, set shutter to something fast, and experiment until I captured legible number plates - the resulting video won't look pleasing from an artistic standpoint, but the number plates would be clearer or clear. they can't pick up things at night. Tho that would be a big ask! For me, recording clear number plates day or night, is the only reason to get an action camera. I held out little hope such tiny lenses and sensors would be capable currently, of recording number plates at night. It would be wonderful if action cameras were as hackable as some Canon DSLRs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Lantern_(firmware) My plan is to switch to the manual mode settings shown in post #1, as soon as it get sufficiently dark cycling. The GoPro 7 Hero Black remembers just one set of manual settings. Once set, fortunately it's as simple as switching Protune (GoPro's term for manual settings) on, and Hypersmooth (GoPro's word for image stabilisation) off. I haven't been out cycling during the day for awhile, but if it doesn't capture clear numberplates on auto, it'll have to be a manually set for daylight too. As I've said above: I'd try leaving the ISO on auto (on the GoPro, you can set min and max ISO), turn any image stabilisation off, set shutter to something fast, and experiment until I captured legible number plates. The camera will then simply ISO automatically, none of which (ISO 100 to 1600) will make plates appear blurry or too grainy/noisy, if the shutter speed is set high enough by the user - too high and images will be too dark, too low and highlights will be overblown. Underexposed (too dark) is preferable, because you can't recover details from overblown images. But how well cameras automatically select ISO to expose for lighting conditions varies widely, some are far better than others. Edited January 27, 20233 yr by guerney
February 4, 20233 yr Author A video during which nothing happens, because of my new forcefield - this looked much clearer before conversion, upload, and conversion... but not that much better lol, even when you select 1080p. Nearly all passing vehicle number plates during this highly enjoyable bike ride were recorded legibly in the original video, easy to take snapshots in VLC player. Highly enjoyable, because drivers let me be. Streetlight LEDs appear to flicker with a 1/240s shutter. Before anyone complains about my speed - it's a wide angle lens, plus I'm going downhill.
February 12, 20233 yr Author Pity Gopro's are so expensive (hero10 €660) I haven't bought anything from here, but it seems to have a good reputation. The Phase One is tempting me at present, but it's too heavy for my helmet jawguard. The action camera section: https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/category/used-video-cameras/drones-and-action/action-cameras https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.mpb.com https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0102913175/phase-one-645df-with-iq250-field-test Edited February 12, 20233 yr by guerney
February 12, 20233 yr I haven't bought anything from here, but it seems to have a good reputation. The Phase One is tempting me at present. The action camera section: https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/category/used-video-cameras/drones-and-action/action-cameras https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.mpb.com https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0102913175/phase-one-645df-with-iq250-field-test SLR type a Bit big on the handlebars y/n? Robust enough wrt vibration? I do see a hero4 Session used at £99, 2015, getting bit old, but a nice little mover, hehe https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/gopro-hero4-session
February 12, 20233 yr Author hero4 Session used at £99 ISO limiting can be set for that one, but no manual shutter speed control, plus it's an older sensor, therefore unlikely to get the same results at night as the 7 Black or newer. MPB is cheaper than Webuy.com for many cameras, unsure of how they compare for trade-in values. I'd check reguarly - prices will of course keep coming down. https://gopro.com/content/dam/help/hero4-session/manuals/UM-A_H4Session_ENG_REVD_WEB.pdf
February 12, 20233 yr Author I do see a hero4 Session used at £99, 2015 Here's a GoPro Hero 7 Black in "Well used" condition for £114, six month warranty. Secondhand batteries are usually useless - originals are about £15 on ebay (where I bought my three). Replacement lens covers are available. https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/gopro-hero7-black/sku-1825711 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313578217774 Edited February 12, 20233 yr by guerney
March 20, 20233 yr Author I've got video stablisation working at night! If you leave all the settings on automatic, the camera's software cannot work out how to take sharp shots at night (it can't stabilise video without sharp frames), to produce stable footage, leading to utterly abysmally useless results... but if you set the shutter speed high enough and leave the camera to determine just ISO only, the camera captures blur-free frames which it can use to stabilise video. After setting resolution to 1080p, frame rate to 24 frames per second, shutter to 1/384th of a second (the highest speed offered for 1080p/24fps), max ISO to 1600 - every frame was blur free. Number plates were clear, and video stabilised smooth. Due to a raindrop on the lens, there's a blurry bit in this screenshot of video, but even with "Hypersmooth" (GoPro's term for image stabilisation) turned on, every number plate remains clear and blur-free, when plates are not covered in grime. This is a direct frame-grab, which could be brightened and enlarged to reveal more detail: Here's another plate, further away and moving fast: One of those blasted taxis: ...and another blasted taxi. Twin bright bike headlights do help: I shouldn't have to change settings for daytime, because I've set min ISO to 100 - will test. Behold! Stablilised night cycling footage! You can view 1080p if you click through to Vimeo, if the cog icon in the embedded video below doesn't provide the option for 1080p, in whatever browser you're using: Vimeo link for 1080p playback - select using the settings/cog icon For comparison, here's non-stabilised footage at 1/480s, 1080p/60fps, ISO 3200: Edited March 20, 20233 yr by guerney
March 20, 20233 yr Author Research worthy of an MSc at least! MA maybe lol, relax constantly; write easy peasy essay for the win Same or similar settings for night, should get better results on newer GoPros like your 10s - their achilles heel is trying to prioritise capture of noise free images, which happens on auto when they inevitably select long shutter speeds and low ISO, the blurriness of which then confounds their in-camera post-processing for image stabilisation. Once you set it for sharp images using manual shutter, image stabilisation can be calculated well by the camera. Unfortunately, most cameras big or small and at any price, will minimise noise in low light using low shutter speeds and ISO, when on auto. For cyclists like me, clear number plate recording day and night, is more important than visual noise. I don't care if video is shaky either, provided it's blur-free, but stabilised footage is a bonus. On the GoPro 7 Hero Black, noise at ISO isn't too bad, and certainly not so noisy that number plates are obscured by it. The camera automatically assigning values to settings in order to achieve motion blur that we're accustomed to seeing in TV programmes and films, is unhelpful, but what consumers who expect things to "Just work" want. It's great that GoPro has built-in a decent set of manual setting options into GoPro 7 Hero Black and newer. Edited March 20, 20233 yr by guerney
March 20, 20233 yr Experimenting is on my todo list, but like many places, there is still a round tuit shortage. Seems to be catching.
March 20, 20233 yr Author Experimenting is on my todo list, but like many places, there is still a round tuit shortage. Seems to be catching. The GoPro 10 Black's higher pixel density (almost twice) sensor should be more capable than the 7's in low light, but if you get too much motion blur on automatic, I'd guess that by simply setting a sufficiently high shutter speed manually, and leaving the camera to decide between min and max ISO values (it will nearly always tend toward selecting max ISO in low light, but if you also define the lowest for min ISO, you might not need to make any camera setting adjustments for capturing daytime footage), will also remove motion blur, thereby facilitating image stabilisation to work more effectively, and capture clear vehicle number plates. Overall the results should be brighter than the 7's at the same ISOs, and with greater colour depth, even at the same high shutter speed. On automatic, looks like there's too much motion blur to record number plates using the GoPro Hero 10 Black (especially at the edges of the frame, due to the wide angle lens): However, Youtube's compression does add motion blur to save space and bandwidth. Like JPEG compression, blurs require less data using their codec (as do many video editing programs when adding video to timelines, sometimes this can be switched off), so you'd have to compare with your original video files to see the difference. Vimeo's compression is less lossy, but their free offering is very limited. Edited March 20, 20233 yr by guerney
March 21, 20233 yr Author Experimenting is on my todo list, but like many places, there is still a round tuit shortage. Seems to be catching. GoPros before digital image stabilisation: Here's the Hero 9 with Hypersmooth off at night, using just a gimbal to stabilise - the sensor does well in low light at ISO 800, using slow shutter speeds (on auto). If he'd simply set a high shutter speed without gimbal and kept Hypersmooth on, footage would have looked pretty smooth... and smoother still if the gimbal had been combined with Hypersmooth - but shutter speeds are too low: no clear number plates; all ablur but colours are good because of ISO 800 and low shutter speeds. Good for touristy memories, not ideal for night cyclists wanting to collect evidence in order to sue drivers for damages to their bikes and person: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jjc69hg5L8 Edited March 21, 20233 yr by guerney
March 21, 20233 yr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJc1PsXkEKk:644 15.5mph Edited March 21, 20233 yr by soundwave
March 21, 20233 yr Author https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJc1PsXkEKk:644 Loos like you're doing 25mph, instead of my 25kmh! I could, but there's not enough room on my private road.
March 21, 20233 yr Author https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCY1F4_WT8:232 My slow riding style is far less interesting - slightly brightened video below, it was raining just a bit. Brighten too much and highlights blow out, losing legible views of number plates, and visual noise becomes more obvious with brightening. ...and below is a lossless export using LosslessCut, showing for the curious original brightness etc. Ignore the cover image for this video, it's from the video I replaced to get around Vimeo's two new video limit per month. You can only upload two new videos for free, but replacements appear to be unlimited. So in this instance, the cover image for this video isn't a frame from the video it represents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LosslessCut Edited March 21, 20233 yr by guerney
June 14, 20232 yr Author I tried cycling with the handlebar-end right hand side lollipop undeployed/folded, and within 6 minutes a car overtook passing within 1m, and cut in close ahead of my bike... but after deployment/unfolding NO CLOSE PASSES AT ALL FOR HOURS! And a police van I passed at an intersection didn't engage in hot pursuit. The same settings enable clear capture of vehicle number plates during the day also. The following are crops from screengrabs extracted from video using VLC - it's nice that I don't have to change settings, as day turns to darkest night! The camera is competent at automatically selecting ISO between 100 and 1600, if shutter speed is set manually. 1080p at 24 frames per second, Min ISO: 100, Max ISO: 1600, Shutter: 1/384s, Hypermooth: On. The GoPro Hero 7 Black is mounted on my helmet jawguard. These are all from the very edge of the frame, where things are usually blurry, especially when the camera is on automatic: Travelling fast in the other direction, quite far away: Slightly overcast: He looked at me but didn't pursue (I've blurred his face and cropped away the number plate). Both of my 1800LM headlights were flashing, as was my 1800LM red rear light. Edited June 14, 20232 yr by guerney
July 5, 20232 yr Author I might put my GP on tomorrow I always cycle with my GoPro, to catch precious little memories to fondly cherish forever... like this chap last night, with his head stuck out of the window of a van speeding along with a trailer, effing and blinding at me. The tail end of his fascinating and eloquent monologue wasn't picked up by the GoPro's mics - really needed a suitably microscopic shotgun mic, shockmounted with a ver ver ikle fluffy wind gerbil. Nevertheless, his driver companion did allow me room, thanks to my trusty illuminated handlebar Oxford lollipop Glad he didn't zoom past close at that speed. There's oodles of room! What's his problem? No sweat getting the plate, even in low light (see end of video, video is brightened) with the van and trailer passing by fast, at a good distance.
July 5, 20232 yr Never worked out how to zoom on VLC - I must be missing something obvious. Also, I'd like to run continuous footage instead of opening a new file every 3 minutes.
July 5, 20232 yr Author It's a bit clunky zooming in VLC, this works depending on the video mode being used. Or you can use the Windows magnifier. I'd like to run continuous footage instead of opening a new file every 3 minutes. You can play a playlist, drag all files to the playlist and loop - the loop playback button can be added in "Customise interface". Edited July 5, 20232 yr by guerney
July 5, 20232 yr We always used to use VLC, but have been using Media Player Classic for some time. Mostly playback quality was the same, but under some situation (I forget the details) MPC played back with much better quality than VLC. MPC can be set up for very convenient frame forward/back which is helpful for us. Not sure about zooming. We installed MPC as part of K-Lite Codecs; installed via the extraordinarily helpful Ninite.
July 5, 20232 yr Author We always used to use VLC, but have been using Media Player Classic for some time. Mostly playback quality was the same, but under some situation (I forget the details) MPC played back with much better quality than VLC. Video quality can be very good, depending on the video mode used and the detected capabilities of your graphics card. For low resource use, I usually go with DirectX, unless I need a separate subtitle file for foreign movies. MPC can be set up for very convenient frame forward/back which is helpful for us. VLC skip forward and back can be assigned variable time hops, then it's forward and back arrow keypresses. There's also the frame advance button which can be added from "customise interface". Installed 5K player the other day.
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