Heinzmann parts

[zolki]

Hello!

I write this post here because info@heinzmann.de does not respond to my e-mails.

I want to upgrade my bike to electric assistance.
I have a one-geared bike with coaster (foot) brake on the rear wheel.
Hence I am interested in a hub motor for the front wheel.

I have considered buying a

Pedelec Standard Motor 26" FrontWheel A 24 V 21,5 250 W 10,5 33 A 38
870-00-751-4906 341,00 Eur

This is the only motor I found in the table
Estelle – Electrobikes – Bicycles with Electric Motor – Auxiliary Drive – Power Assist Drive
that is meant for something like bicycle, not "vehicle" and meets the requirements 24V, 250W. But as the law in my country does not require pedalling while the motor is working (there is only 250W power limit), I might buy something like

External Control NiCd 24V/33A for E-Bike 215,00 Eur

and forget about the pedalling sensor. (Though the motor is labeled "Pedelec standard motor".) Is the above technically correct?
(Of course, some twist grip "Twist Grip (180 cm) 59,00 Eur" or alike is
also needed.)

Another question is, how is the wheel diameter really limited? The above "Pedelec Standard Motor" is by specification meant for 26" wheel, but my wheel is 28" standard. Does anyone know whether the "26 FrontWheel A" in the above specification is EXACT or MINIMUM diameter of the wheel where the motor is to be fitted? (And if exact, then why should it not work with a 28" rim?)

I dislike the 36V motors since I am looking for batteries of higher
capacitance (some 30 A*hour or so) elsewhere and such batteries are
mostly 12V standard. Thus three such (heavier) batteries would be
overkill, two is hopefully alright. (I am going to mount the batteries
on the rear, so the 100 kg limit on the front hub motor axis should not
be exceeded.)

I hope someone who has experience with Heinzmann could help me.

 

[emotivepete]

I think you sent your enquiry to me initially (Emotive Control Systems). I referred you to Germany as I don't deal in your country. I cannot say why you have not had a response from them and don't know how long you have been waiting so prefer not to comment on this

However, here is some advice on your request.

Firstly the Heinzmann product range and prices are currently being revised. For the UK the new kit prices have been published on our website Heinzmann DC Motors UK distributor- estelle electrobikes powered by Heinzmann.

Secondly, NiCd is no longer available from Heinzmann. We can still service old 24V packs (black box) but cannot supply new packs.

The motor does not care what type of operating mode, e-bike (throttle only) or pedelec. This is determined by the controller. For you case you should select an e-bike controller with current rating to match the motor type.

If you put this motor into a 28" rim, the only effect is a higher top speed at the expense of some hill climbing ability (The 870-00-751-4906 is rated at 22km/h and 9.7% hills in 28" rims compared with 20.4 km/h and 10.6% hills in 26" rims)

You can use your own batteries if you choose, although if you are going for lead acid you will suffer a weight disadvantage. If you use your own batteries you will need to select an analogue NiCd controller (I know I said NiCd is no longer available, but the controller is, or should be).

A further point I would add is that Heinzmann is moving to Li-Ion batteries and digital control all at 36V. 24V controllers are still available for those who need them but these will not be the newer digital types.

On your desire to have a high discharge rated battery, if you do this and run consistently high current to the motor, firstly you risk shortening its life (brush wear mostly) but also the AMP connector on the front wheel does not like continuously high current and could suffer. Rickshaw users know this and replace the AMP connector with a Neutrik (or at least they should)

 

[MaryinScotland]

Hi Pete,

Sorry to sidetrack the thread, but I was looking at your website recently for complete Heinzmann bikes. The bikes page has a set of photos, and the text "Click on the images above and right for more information." However, clicking on the images only gets me a bigger image, no bike specs.

I've been on the Heinzmann site and found the basic page of the 2008 bikes. But one piece of info I couldn't locate: the new batteries come in 2 capacites, something like 5 or 9 amp-hours. But I couldn't find the weights. In the past I used a Heinzmann kit (200W, 24V, NiCad) on a Dawes street bike. I liked the motor and the throttle controller, but found the weight (on a steel-framed bike) a bit much, and I wasn't keen on a heavy battery on the rear rack. The 2008 bikes may be better for my purposes, but I'd need more details to be sure.

Will Heinzmann bikes be at Presteigne?

Thanks,

Mary

 

[zolki]

Thank You, Peter! Indeed the heinzmann.de and estelle.de guys are not too responsive. I have tried by e-mail as well as by feedback form in Heinzmann home page and waited for a week or so, nothing.

I shall try to make an order through estelle.de, perhaps they will be more responsive if they will see someone wants to buy something. A pity that Emotive Control Systems does not sell to mainland Europe.

 

[emotivepete]

Hi Pete,

Sorry to sidetrack the thread, but I was looking at your website recently for complete Heinzmann bikes. The bikes page has a set of photos, and the text "Click on the images above and right for more information." However, clicking on the images only gets me a bigger image, no bike specs.

I've been on the Heinzmann site and found the basic page of the 2008 bikes. But one piece of info I couldn't locate: the new batteries come in 2 capacites, something like 5 or 9 amp-hours. But I couldn't find the weights. In the past I used a Heinzmann kit (200W, 24V, NiCad) on a Dawes street bike. I liked the motor and the throttle controller, but found the weight (on a steel-framed bike) a bit much, and I wasn't keen on a heavy battery on the rear rack. The 2008 bikes may be better for my purposes, but I'd need more details to be sure.

Will Heinzmann bikes be at Presteigne?

Thanks,

Mary

Mary,

The website is awaiting new pdf files showing 2008 bike prices, hence the larger pic but no detail. This will be updated as soon as possible. The retailers have pricing info already and will be able to advise on new bikes but I haven't sorted this out for the web just yet - next week it will be sorted - promise.

If you click on the retrofit kit icon on the bike page the pdf gives all necessary battery information including weights (http://www.emotivecontrolsystems.co.uk/pdf/retrofit-kit-2008.pdf), which you will see are a lot lighter than previous NiCd and NiMH.

Heinzmann bikes (2008 versions) will be at Presteigne both exhibiting and competing. We will also be at Get Cycling in Nottingham a week later, Get Cycling Show 2008 and The York Cycle/CTC Show in June, CTC - the UK's national cyclists organisation.

Hope to see lots of folk at the various events.

 

[MaryinScotland]

Thanks, Pete. Nottingham would certainly be easier for me to get to than Presteigne.
Mary

 

[Syman]

What about this battery?

Do you think this would be Ok for a heinzmann high tork motor?

ThunderPower THUTP3800-10SXL

Would my existing contoller (nicd) be ok?

Any advice on how to put it together would be most welcome.

 

[emotivepete]

Do you think this would be Ok for a heinzmann high tork motor?

ThunderPower THUTP3800-10SXL

Would my existing contoller (nicd) be ok?

Any advice on how to put it together would be most welcome.

I'm afraid I am not in a position to endorse any product not tested by Heinzmann or ourselves. It ought to work and the NiCd controller should be okay but I'm not sure what range you would expect to get out of this 3.8Ah battery. The new Heinzmann 5.2Ah Li-Ion will do around 13m in e-bike mode (19m as pedelec).

 

[zolki]

Speakon NL4FX

Hi again!

Now I have obtained the parts from Heinzmann: front motor, control box 24V NiCd e-bike, cable for motor, twist throttle and spokes. I also have two 12V batteries I intend to connect in series to obtain 24V. The cable from control box that is meant to go to battery box has a Speakon NL4FX connector. My question is: what is the wiring of the connector meant to be? Meaning that, which wire should have 24V positive and which should have ground?

If I cannot find plug-in for the NL4FX and should be advised to cut off the connector and solder the cables, then soldering is fine for me. Only I should need to know the wiring (or be confident that if by trial-and-error connected wrongly then nothing would be damaged).

Thankfully waiting for advice,

 

[zolki]

OK, now I called Kinetics (Ben Cooper) and learned the following facts:
positive (24V) goes to 1+
negative (ground) goes to 2+
If that would not work, then perhaps there is also need for half (12V) voltage and if I would not want to supply the controller with 12V then the controller might be modified. I have not yet fully understood about this modifying part.

References:
Kinetics webpage for Control Unit: The Control Board
Speakon NL4FX Connector assembly: http://www.acoustic-reality.com/manuals/speakon.pdf

 

[zolki]

AMP to Neutrik

On your desire to have a high discharge rated battery, if you do this and run consistently high current to the motor, firstly you risk shortening its life (brush wear mostly) but also the AMP connector on the front wheel does not like continuously high current and could suffer. Rickshaw users know this and replace the AMP connector with a Neutrik (or at least they should)

Now I have been driving a Heinzmann kit daily for more than a year; at first on lead acid batteries, but now for three months already on LiFePO4. No complaints at all about Heinzmann, everything has been working really fine. And today the AMP connector melted down, as You predicted.

I am going to use Neutrik NLT4MX and NL4FX connectors instead, but for a temporary solution I soldered the wires simply together. Everything works fine.

But my question is: do the two thermal control wires (thin black wires) have polarity? In other words, does it matter which should be connected to which of the black wires, or there is a simple thermo-resistor inside and it is not important? (I keenly kept it the same way as it was with the connector.)