help me choose my first eletric motor kit

[MrMark]

Hi,
I am looking for my first motor kit.

My bike: https://www.evanscycles.com/hoy-shizuoka-002-2015-hybrid-bike-EV198508

I work as a bike courier and converting my bike into eletric one will make my work much easeier.

My weight is 83kg (13st)
My cargo is light, maximum weight is 3-4 kg (6-8 lb) and I keep it in my backpackack.

I am after good acceleration, speed 25-30mh and store has to be UK based.
Range is not the most imprtant since I am going to buy two batterie and swap them durring the day.
I belive middrive motor or rear hubdrive motor will be best for me.
My budget for complete set with battery 700-1000Ł

I would be very glad if you could spend a little of your time and help me.
Cheers

 

[Woosh]

for this range of speed (25mph-28mph), it would be difficult to beat a derestricted Yamaha PW-X or a Bosch CX in terms of ridability, weight and battery endurance.
You need a mechanical power of about 800W at 28mph, given that motor yield is around 80%-85%, you need a battery system that can support 1kW continuously. That's 36V 26A or 48V 20A.
Crank drives are best at this range of speed.
If you go for a geared hub motors, most of their internal gearboxes are made to handle 350W (SWX02 class) or 500W (BPM class), 800W will kill them in less than 3,000 miles.
If you go for a direct drive, hanging a 7kg motor on an unsuspended frame will put a lot of stress through the frame, making the bike much more noticeable and unpleasant to ride.
I sell successfully the Rio Fat Boys and Karoos to deliveroos but they tend to ride at 15mph-19mph.

 

[MrMark]

thanks Woosh!
Very well explained, nice one for that.

Sadly Yamaha PW-X and a Bosch CX are too expensive for me.

What if I rather aim speed between 18-25 mh?
What would you recommend them?
Would Tongsheng 48V 250W TSDZ2 be good enugh to cary on with constant speed ~20mh?
I understood what you said about guarantee if I derestrict my motor.

BTW anyone can recomand me UK based battery suplier? I know about https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/ but they do not answer my mail.

 

[Woosh]

What if I rather aim speed between 18-25 mh?

for 25 mph, the required mechanical power is 600W, battery system needs to support 750W, that's 36V 22A or 48V 16A.
You can use a kit like the Bafang BBS02.
http://eclipsebikes.com/product_info.php?products_id=5
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/192739241176

 

[MrMark]

Ok I will consider your proposition.
I can see they eclipsebices.com got a very good choice of 48v batteries. Does anyone have an experience with their batteries and service itself?

 

[Woosh]

don't worry, eclispe are trader member of the forum.
Lots of members have bought from them.

 

[MrMark]

Thanks, is there any other trusted motors/battery suplier on top of that above and woosh?

 

[Woosh]

for single point of contact re. support, you should consider buying both battery and motor kit from Eclipse.
I used to sell BBS02 until last year but gave up because the rate of failed controllers was too high.

 

[MrMark]

Good point but I still got in my mind Tongsheng 48V 250W with bigger battery then yours I am not afraid about paying penalty in case of anything involving police. I'm more afraid about not getting money from insursnce in case of an accident.

 

[Woosh]

the correct label is part of the compliance, but if you derestrict a 250W bike and ride assisted over 15.5mph, you break the law in the same way as you would with a BBS02 or a 1kW BBSHD.
As far as I am aware, there have been no prosecution cases for having a BBS02 kit if you ride assisted at or below the legal limit.

 

[MrMark]

Yes but if I have an accident on athe bike with 250w it would be hard to proof I had motor support above speed limit. Riding on a bike with motor is illegal itself and easy to proof.

 

[Woosh]

Yes but if I have an accident on athe bike with 250w it would be hard to proof I had motor support above speed limit. Riding on a bike with motor is illegal itself and easy to proof.

the same reasoning applies with a dongled Bosch or a Yamaha bike.
Crank drive bikes can break more easily when riding at high speed. When you use the bike for work because you are a courier, you need the utmost reliability you can get. That is either a low speed geared hub motor or a robust CD kit. You also need the best watertight kit and it comes at a price.

 

[MrMark]

the same reasoning applies with a dongled Bosch or a Yamaha bike.
Crank drive bikes can break more easily when riding at high speed. When you use the bike for work because you are a courier, you need the utmost reliability you can get. That is either a low speed geared hub motor or a robust CD kit. You also need the best watertight kit and it comes at a price.

Well I agree with that. So BBS02 and Tongsheng 48V 250W TSDZ2 are watertight enough? I hope batteries from eclipse are completely waterproof too...

 

[Woosh]

not as watertight as possible. If you take away the throttle, brake sensors, pedal sensor etc you reduce the exposure.
Same with batteries. If your battery is inside the downtube, it does not take on as much water and vapour as one that is outside.
That's why I suggested Bosch CX and Yamaha PW-X. Less wiring = more watertight.

 

[MrMark]

I will have to take a chance, I belive I need all of the above. I cant afford Bosch CX and Yamaha PW-X...
What's difference between bbs02 500w and 750w from eclipse?
Best LCD Display will be newest one dpc18 am I right?

 

[soundwave]

check ebay and whats for sale on her only last week a yamaha bike was offers for 200 quid and just needed a new display mount
https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/haibike-hard-7-for-spares-repairs-or-parts.33379/​

 

[MrMark]

nice one mate but I do not want to wait for a bargain. I will choose new drive system. bbs02 if I will dare to risk or 48V 250W TSDZ2 as a safe choice.

 

[MrMark]

Speed comes with a cost, battery consumption is one. At 15mph on flat road, the power consumption is around 10WH per mile. At 20mph, 16WH per mile, at 25mph, 24WH per mile, at 30mph 30WH per mile.
If you pull continuously high current from your battery, it has no time to recover and will lose its capacity and age a lot faster.

Source:
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?bopen=false&axis=mph&batt=B4814_EZ

Can anyone tell me hot it would look like with BBS02 500W 48v?

 

[MrMark]

And I need to know whats difference between

BAFANG BBS02B 48V 500W
and
BAFANG BBS02B 48V 750W from http://eclipsebikes.com
I know it has been reprogrammed to 18A but what does mean for me?

 

[Woosh]

the 36V BBS02 is fitted with 25A controller (36V * 25A), the 48V BBS02 with 18A controller (48V * 18A).
Some vendors reprogram the controller, boosting it from 48V 18A (500W) to 48V 25A (750W).
the 36V version is optimised for 90RPM, the 48V can hit 120RPM.
You should choose your motor to suit your natural cadence. Crank drives are same as geared hubs or direct drives, the yield of your motor will drop with the motor speed, from 80%-85% at the optimised speed down to zero when the motor stalls, than means 20% of your battery power is converted to heat when you spin the cranks at the optimised speed and 100% converted to heat when the motor stalls. If you pump 500W into a near stalling motor, you convert 200W-400W into heat. Some of it is dissipated inside the controller compartment, cooking your controller.