Is there a difference between 2008 and 2011 panasonic motors?

[marwigan]

I've got old Lafree and a newer Raleigh Leeds. I understand from Flecc's site the two types of motor. But is there another snuck in there somewhere. That is I thought my Leeds was a bit sluggish and having acquired it 2nd hand wasn't 100% sure that the motor was 100%. So when i see a new one for sale from Germany on Ebay have taken the plunge and fitted it.
I note the codes on the same looking motors includes what i take as a date, starting with the year . My original 2013approx [silver one v the brown original] Leeds has '11/06/21' which i take to mean ; made on june 21 , 2011. Fair enough. The one from Germany starts '10/x/x' whatever, meaning manufactured 2010, right?
Both seem to run very similarly..only the new one [the 2010 one - from Germany] doesn't seem to have as much power in that a hill behind me which I can grunt up in 2nd or third proved too much today and I had to get off and push. Horrid!
I since read in searching the forum , that there was a difference in power between [for example] the 2008 and the 2011 panasonic crank drive [motor]. Is there?
The poster [forget who precisely] seems to imply that he liked the older [simpler?] panasonic better, really?

Thanks in anticipation pending my 'switching back'.

 

[flecc]

It's a bit complicated, since not only were the power handling characteristics changed over time, but the bike manufacturers could specify the overall power spec that they wanted for particular models. For example Kalkhoff's Pro Connect was specified for higher power than the Agattu.the latter viewed more as a utility bike, the former more sporting inclined.

Basically the 2008 units complied with Japanese law in that they phased down power rather early, and the Hi power mode was 1.3 times normal mode. Around 2010/2011 that software was changed so that the power was sustained further up the speed range and the Hi mode changed to 1.5 times. At a later point, I don't exactly when, the Hi mode was finally increased again to 2 times.

So for a given maker, Kalkhoff for example, they had an increasingly powerful Hi mode over time and the full power in normal mode later sustained most of the way to 15 mph.

It sounds like you'd be best to change back again, since the unit from Germany may have the older software and might have been lower power specified anyway. Oddly enough the software can't always be changed to suit, since the electronics componentry was also changed between different series.
.

 

[marwigan]

Ah excellent thank you Flecc-san; i wondered if i might rely on your expertise to come up with something plausible.
I may look out for an old 'shot' Raleigh Dover -they are out there ex-hire I'm sure-to put the 'new' motor in so as it's not wasted .. i suppose for 'Dutch' conditions - flatter topography- it may last longer through less strain/output. Bottom line: is not necessarily a worse motor even if not 'climb every mtn.' ?
And bearing in mind Flecc's Panasonic info. web-index is there any advantage doing any cog/chainwheel/rear sprocket size-changes to maximise the characteristics of an 1.3 augmentating motor for flatter country?
Thank you

 

[flecc]

is there any advantage doing any cog/chainwheel/rear sprocket size-changes to maximise the characteristics of an 1.3 augmentating motor for flatter country?

Yes, swapping the standard 9 tooth motor sprocket for an 11 tooth will increase the maximum assist speed from a nominal 15 mph to 18 mph. In addition the power phase down points with speed will be delayed to higher speeds, so overall performance will be better.

But of course only suitable for easier territory where there's nothing steeper than 10% and most inclines are less.
.

 

[marwigan]

Beezer!

 

[marwigan]

...or... having re-inserted the original Leeds' Pana motor [with 11 teeth sprocket] i am able to ascend my usual route.
Must say running all the sweeter, that is quieter with smoother 'power up' and 'power down', for a 'greasing' a la Flecc's site, though the motor leads [x3] were fiddly to disconnect/reconnect; at one point I'm thinking if i don't put this back together there is no-one else to do it. As it was, all ok thank goodness with a prouder user as a result....

 

[flecc]

Yes, those motor leads are very fiddly, glad its ok now.
.