Kalkhoff Owners Speeds?
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Yes they use the ten percent allowed to cut out imperceptibly at just over 17 mph.I've been reading up on these and have read that they have pedal assist up to about 17mph.
Also, that it's possible to change wheel circumference in the settings menu.
Can anyone confirm if this is true?
Thanks
It is possible to change the wheel dia setting so allowing it to cut out at a higher speed. But the only way to do that is with a device the dealer has. Some people have been lent this gadget in order to update their software and did that at the same time. But that was I think mostly in 2013 when the software for that year’s model was improved halfway through the year. They will not change the wheel setting for you.
soundwave - thanks, tbh my average off road speed is only about 15mph even if I'm really trying so anything more than that would be a bonus. My route is circa 25 miles but quite hilly.
John - many thank for this. With assistance to 17mph I don't think I'd ever need to go any quicker but would of course be interested to experience what the extra assistance would be like past this speed. In the US the same motors are set to 20mph so as far as I can see there would be no harm in trying.
I may take a trip to the dealers today so will see what they say about selecting wheel size. Looking through the instruction manual there does appear to be the option through 'settings' in the display to change wheel size. However, your'e saying this is only something a dealer can change?
John - many thank for this. With assistance to 17mph I don't think I'd ever need to go any quicker but would of course be interested to experience what the extra assistance would be like past this speed. In the US the same motors are set to 20mph so as far as I can see there would be no harm in trying.
I may take a trip to the dealers today so will see what they say about selecting wheel size. Looking through the instruction manual there does appear to be the option through 'settings' in the display to change wheel size. However, your'e saying this is only something a dealer can change?
still same. All the LCDs can be password protected. May be the suppliers keep that door ajar for a purpose.
Thanks again for the comments.
I answered all my questions today.
Hope this post maybe of use to others in my position:
Tried both the 250W Impulse 2.0 + 250W Evo and the Evo did feel noticeably quicker.
They both rode well; comfy, great brakes and didn't completely stop assist until about 17mph. Unfortunately I did find the limiter a bit frustrating. Both bikes pulled really well but the Evo gave a slightly higher speed up hill.
I also tried altering the wheel diameter settings to see what effect it would have. Other than the speedo being out it still went at the same speed using the gps on my phone (this was about 18mph compared to the true displays 17mph).
I then tried the 350W Impulse 2.0. I didn't notice any big difference in acceleration to the EVO 250 but much safer at high speed and more like what I'm used to on my road bike. Just with no effort Similar hill climbing speed as the Evo 250W.
Finally was the Evo 350W. Like the difference between the 250W versions I found a similar difference with the 350's. Better acceleration. Also preferred the geometry of the Integral - probably because it felt a bit more normal after a road bike. Fastest climber.
I was impressed with all the bikes and would be happy with either 350w version but ideally a belt drive... and in the integral...
Have to say I was really surprised at how good they all were, the gear change on all versions worked brilliantly with their shift/power cut assist - so smooth. Same with the way the 250W motors stop on their limiter. The impulse 2.0 250w had an annoying clank on revs which was a bit worrying. All others were quiet.
For reference speed adjustment can only be done on the S models.
So knowing the implications of using a 350W motor on the road I'm going to call the DVLA tomorrow for advice on registering. Then an insurance company shortly after. Then tax will be £0. Not sure about MOT.. Will find out tomorrow.
Apparently there have been a lot of S pedelec sales in the UK but none have been registered.
It's a shame the Euro speed limit is so low. I think it prohibits the use of these bikes to large number of people and is bad for the business. Batteries are capable of doing good mileage at decent speed, a huge market, especially in London with over a million commuters and a continuing trend for cycling.
I answered all my questions today.
Hope this post maybe of use to others in my position:
Tried both the 250W Impulse 2.0 + 250W Evo and the Evo did feel noticeably quicker.
They both rode well; comfy, great brakes and didn't completely stop assist until about 17mph. Unfortunately I did find the limiter a bit frustrating. Both bikes pulled really well but the Evo gave a slightly higher speed up hill.
I also tried altering the wheel diameter settings to see what effect it would have. Other than the speedo being out it still went at the same speed using the gps on my phone (this was about 18mph compared to the true displays 17mph).
I then tried the 350W Impulse 2.0. I didn't notice any big difference in acceleration to the EVO 250 but much safer at high speed and more like what I'm used to on my road bike. Just with no effort
Similar hill climbing speed as the Evo 250W.Finally was the Evo 350W. Like the difference between the 250W versions I found a similar difference with the 350's. Better acceleration. Also preferred the geometry of the Integral - probably because it felt a bit more normal after a road bike. Fastest climber.
I was impressed with all the bikes and would be happy with either 350w version but ideally a belt drive... and in the integral...
Have to say I was really surprised at how good they all were, the gear change on all versions worked brilliantly with their shift/power cut assist - so smooth. Same with the way the 250W motors stop on their limiter. The impulse 2.0 250w had an annoying clank on revs which was a bit worrying. All others were quiet.
For reference speed adjustment can only be done on the S models.
So knowing the implications of using a 350W motor on the road I'm going to call the DVLA tomorrow for advice on registering. Then an insurance company shortly after. Then tax will be £0. Not sure about MOT.. Will find out tomorrow.
Apparently there have been a lot of S pedelec sales in the UK but none have been registered.
It's a shame the Euro speed limit is so low. I think it prohibits the use of these bikes to large number of people and is bad for the business. Batteries are capable of doing good mileage at decent speed, a huge market, especially in London with over a million commuters and a continuing trend for cycling.
You’ll find that S pedelecs can’t be registered in the UK and are illegal to even use. Though quite a few do. See many threads here on the topic.Thanks again for the comments.
I answered all my questions today.
Hope this post maybe of use to others in my position:
Tried both the 250W Impulse 2.0 + 250W Evo and the Evo did feel noticeably quicker.
They both rode well; comfy, great brakes and didn't completely stop assist until about 17mph. Unfortunately I did find the limiter a bit frustrating. Both bikes pulled really well but the Evo gave a slightly higher speed up hill.
I also tried altering the wheel diameter settings to see what effect it would have. Other than the speedo being out it still went at the same speed using the gps on my phone (this was about 18mph compared to the true displays 17mph).
I then tried the 350W Impulse 2.0. I didn't notice any big difference in acceleration to the EVO 250 but much safer at high speed and more like what I'm used to on my road bike. Just with no effort
Finally was the Evo 350W. Like the difference between the 250W versions I found a similar difference with the 350's. Better acceleration. Also preferred the geometry of the Integral - probably because it felt a bit more normal after a road bike. Fastest climber.
I was impressed with all the bikes and would be happy with either 350w version but ideally a belt drive... and in the integral...
Have to say I was really surprised at how good they all were, the gear change on all versions worked brilliantly with their shift/power cut assist - so smooth. Same with the way the 250W motors stop on their limiter. The impulse 2.0 250w had an annoying clank on revs which was a bit worrying. All others were quiet.
For reference speed adjustment can only be done on the S models.
So knowing the implications of using a 350W motor on the road I'm going to call the DVLA tomorrow for advice on registering. Then an insurance company shortly after. Then tax will be £0. Not sure about MOT.. Will find out tomorrow.
Apparently there have been a lot of S pedelec sales in the UK but none have been registered.
It's a shame the Euro speed limit is so low. I think it prohibits the use of these bikes to large number of people and is bad for the business. Batteries are capable of doing good mileage at decent speed, a huge market, especially in London with over a million commuters and a continuing trend for cycling.
You can buy dongles for Kakhoffs too. If you want to go down that route. It’s just the same under the law as an S pedelec though.
Thanks for the replies chaps
Yeah I've read quite a few of the discussions and could see it from both sides.
Having tried them both I can't see it any other way now
Is it that clear in law though? - that's why I'm going to call the DVLA.
This is what is says on the website: the date is very recent so a lot of the previous discussions may not be valid.
The key thing is what does "shouldn't" mean? All of the "must's" the bike would conform to. Sorry if it's been done before. If so, what was the outcome?
EAPC requirements
The requirements are:
Yeah I've read quite a few of the discussions and could see it from both sides.
Having tried them both I can't see it any other way now
Is it that clear in law though? - that's why I'm going to call the DVLA.
This is what is says on the website: the date is very recent so a lot of the previous discussions may not be valid.
The key thing is what does "shouldn't" mean? All of the "must's" the bike would conform to. Sorry if it's been done before. If so, what was the outcome?
EAPC requirements
The requirements are:
- the bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it
- the electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph
- the motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 250 watts
- the motor’s power output or the manufacturer
- the voltage of the battery or maximum speed of the bike
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over 250w and you will need it ‘type approved like building a motor bike from bits.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval
That’s the legal pedelec definition which doesn’t need to be registered of course. The Sped is allowed to go up to 45 kph where it is allowed but that’s not in the UK.Thanks for the replies chaps
Yeah I've read quite a few of the discussions and could see it from both sides.
Having tried them both I can't see it any other way now
Is it that clear in law though? - that's why I'm going to call the DVLA.
This is what is says on the website: the date is very recent so a lot of the previous discussions may not be valid.
The key thing is what does "shouldn't" mean? All of the "must's" the bike would conform to. Hope this hasn't been done before. If so, what was the outcome?
EAPC requirements
The requirements are:
The bike must also have a plate with the details about the manufacturer. It must also display either:
- the bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it
- the electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph
- the motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 250 watts
- the motor’s power output or the manufacturer
- the voltage of the battery or maximum speed of the bike
As far as anyone knows only two people have jumped through all the time consuming hoops to register something at all like that and it ends up like a heavy electric moped.
- soundwave - I haven't gone through that page properly but didn't see anything specific about ebikes? Where does it say it's a requirement to get approval?
John - can you show me anything that says an ebike 'must' be limited to 15.5? I can see where it says 'should'. I can also see what it 'must' have.
'Should' - does anyone know what this means legally?
John - can you show me anything that says an ebike 'must' be limited to 15.5? I can see where it says 'should'. I can also see what it 'must' have.
'Should' - does anyone know what this means legally?
thats the point there is not much to go on atm from what i can see and why it will take forever to get it type approved to use on uk roads and cost a bomb as well lights plates horn indicators licence mot insurance ect be cheaper to get a emoped tbh.
what is the budget for this ?as doubt you will want to pay what it will end up costing in the long run.
you will also need a full motor bike helmet and get done if on cycle lanes ect.
what is the budget for this ?as doubt you will want to pay what it will end up costing in the long run.
you will also need a full motor bike helmet and get done if on cycle lanes ect.
It seems like you've probably been looking at a DVLA guidelines document. That's not the law, here's the law:
First, the Highway Act 1835 bans all motorised vehicles from being used in public places unless specifically permitted.
Second, the Type Approval of two and three wheeled motor vehicles regulations contained in EU wide order 168/2013, which is wholly incorporated in UK law, lists the two and three wheeled vehicles which qualify for type approval. In addition, it lists some exemptions from the need to be approved as motor vehicles, and one of those exemptions are pedelecs, on condition they conform to this specification, cut and pasted from 168/2013:
Pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h.
The DVLA's equivalent speed specification for the UK is 15.5 mph.
To take advantage of that exemption and comply with the Highway Act 1835, there is a specific law permitting pedelecs in the UK, the EAPC regulations of 1983, as amended by the Pedal Cycles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) Regulations of 6th April 2015.
There is no possibility of registering existing pedelecs of 350 watts and S class high speed e-bikes at present since they do not meet existing type approval requirements in the appropriate classes.
.
This is the Law - isn't it?
EAPC requirements
The requirements are:
It must also display either:
Seems the law is quite cleverly suggesting we shouldn't all be riding 1000W ebikes at 50 mph. But only that. ~Maybe this is why there have been no prosecutions that I've heard of. Can anyone supply any details of any?
No need for approval.
UNLESS I'm missing something!
EAPC requirements
The requirements are:
- the bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it - fine
- the electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph - not a requirement?
- the motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 250 watts - also not a requirement?
It must also display either:
- the motor’s power output or the manufacturer - NA
- the voltage of the battery or maximum speed of the bike - voltage sticker on the battery fine.
Seems the law is quite cleverly suggesting we shouldn't all be riding 1000W ebikes at 50 mph. But only that. ~Maybe this is why there have been no prosecutions that I've heard of. Can anyone supply any details of any?
No need for approval.
UNLESS I'm missing something!