Li-ion or LiFePo
- Thread starter Andy_82
- Start date
. Hopefully you won't! No-one is irreplaceable and it's good for the old to completely make way for the young and their greater potential..
Panasonic battery warranty
Hi everybody
With regard to the 2 year warranty does it mean that if the the power starts to drop (ie. less than 5 lights on diagnostic) within 2 years it will be replaced or or is some drop in power deemed acceptable?.
Regards Styx
Hi everybody
With regard to the 2 year warranty does it mean that if the the power starts to drop (ie. less than 5 lights on diagnostic) within 2 years it will be replaced or or is some drop in power deemed acceptable?.
Regards Styx
The warranties are mostly only against failure Styx, though a maximum capacity loss can be specified in some cases. It's in the nature of batteries that they lose capacity through time and use. For example, the original lithium batteries tended to lose about 33% capacity per annum and it can still be quite high, depending on the usage conditions. One I'm currently using on a very powerful bike which stresses the battery quite a lot has lost over 20% in 18 months. Many will do better though.
In an earlier example, a Lafree's NiMh battery at four years had a range of 8 miles, down from the original 20 miles.
You can see therefore that it would be impossible to guarantee the original capacity, though some e-bike makers do specify a maximum loss over time, over which they will replace. The only one I've seen stating that publicly was eZee on their latest batteries, though I can't remember the details.
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In an earlier example, a Lafree's NiMh battery at four years had a range of 8 miles, down from the original 20 miles.
You can see therefore that it would be impossible to guarantee the original capacity, though some e-bike makers do specify a maximum loss over time, over which they will replace. The only one I've seen stating that publicly was eZee on their latest batteries, though I can't remember the details.
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It looks like Sony are about to start producing them for power tools (?) but significantly no mention of price.
They've been made for power tools for years now as I mentioned, the power tool company DeWalt in particular use them. The batteries are known as A123 type and are only 3.6 volts and low capacity, so nowhere near what's needed on our bikes. Sony will probably be trying to get some of the aftermarket at the moment, so they'll have to price lower than the tool manufacturer to get that.
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Actually if you look on Endless Sphere you'll see that the A123 cells from DeWalt tools are highly sought after for e-bikes. True the low capacity makes them awkward to build into sufficiently large AH packs, but they make up for that with a very high (for LiFePO4) C rating. This makes them more suitable than most LiFePO4 for the high powered bikes that our American friends seem to favour.
Of course they're not really practical for most of us.
I know, and not just on Endless Sphere, but as you say, they aren't really practical for the majority of us so I avoid mentioning that possibility since it can lead to an endless stream of "how do I do it" queries.
When you look at the A123 prices, there's not much point anyway, with the large number of them needed to match our large voltage and capacity needs, not to mention the problems of producing a case, where to mount it and how to arrange a charger for a made up pack.
Anyone wanting LiFePO4 is best going to Li Ping for his ready made up batteries that come complete with chargers, though even then the lack of a case and the mounting problems remain.
Battery costs for the correct ones for our bikes are high at the moment, but paying for them is as much a part of e-biking as buying petrol is for car drivers. All powered vehicles have intrinsic costs and those for e-bikes are still the lowest.
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When you look at the A123 prices, there's not much point anyway, with the large number of them needed to match our large voltage and capacity needs, not to mention the problems of producing a case, where to mount it and how to arrange a charger for a made up pack.
Anyone wanting LiFePO4 is best going to Li Ping for his ready made up batteries that come complete with chargers, though even then the lack of a case and the mounting problems remain.
Battery costs for the correct ones for our bikes are high at the moment, but paying for them is as much a part of e-biking as buying petrol is for car drivers. All powered vehicles have intrinsic costs and those for e-bikes are still the lowest.
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Too true
I keep meaning to ask Li Ping if he can make me long thing 36V15Ah that'll fit in my Wisper. I think he can if my assumptions about the size of the Ping pouches are correct. I'd end up with a long (approx 450mm) battery (so only for tall people as it'd limit how far you can get the seat down) but that should just about fit the Wisper hole.
Certainly I think it's something Mr Ping should consider, if he can construct packs that fit better into the battery areas of commercial bikes, instead of the arbitrary brick shapes he currently offers.
Another interesting complication is the potential need to provide compression for pouch style cells. (see http://www.reapsystems.co.uk/faq7.html)
Then it only remains to connect it...(trivial in comparison)
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It would be good in theory, but I think the problem would often be the connection to the bikes, there's no standardisation. He couldn't realistically offer all the different blade type connectors that exist, and since the connector blades sit on the bike's battery platform, the new pack's weight couldn't just sit on them without doing damage. I don't think the bike manufacturers would take kindly to a rival battery seller using their design of slide mountings and locking systems either, so little chance of using those for location.
Size would often be a problem too, LiFePO4 cells are generally a larger volume for a given capacity/discharge rate.
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Yes I'd forgotten about the blade connector types...my old Wisper uses a IEC "kettle" plug on a fly lead, nice and easy for me to provide the correct connectors. Those blade connectors do present a problem. Still a different form factor that fits in the hole better would help. Of course this is for the competent DIYer only, not your average punter.
On closer inspection, the Wisper connector isn't a standard IEC kettle type. What would be the earth pin in a 240v version is set horizontaly instead of verticaly - at some point I mean to look up what connectors they are.
That was a later and quite recent modification to ensure someone didn't plug in mains. Earlier Wispers had a standard IEC connector, so torrent99's bike is probably one of those.
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And you know it's sooo tempting to do that! It's like looking over a cliff and getting the urge to jump.
(Even more tempting as the charger uses an IEC too! yikes)I wonder how big the bang would be...?
I'd say be in the next room and get the wife to plug it in!I wonder how big the bang would be...?
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