Long Term Test Outcome - eZee battery
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
My Ezee Torq battery (10ah) has 2200 miles and 6 months on it. It's showing the effects now. I'm not really sure how fast it's going to deteriorate at this point or when it will really be pointless to continue with it. At the moment it's not really affecting my rides, I just am noticing the capacity is less and it needs charging sooner for the same distances.
I have no idea how many charges it has taken. The NiMh on my Giant I made careful records, but then that one was almost always fully discharged and charged fully its whole life whereas this one rarely has experience full charges (maybe 12 times total).
Er, about $1 (U.S.) per 5 miles of usage so far. but that's not counting electricity.
This wouldn't put me off buying another, though i would like it all to be cheaper, for sure!
I have no idea how many charges it has taken. The NiMh on my Giant I made careful records, but then that one was almost always fully discharged and charged fully its whole life whereas this one rarely has experience full charges (maybe 12 times total).
Er, about $1 (U.S.) per 5 miles of usage so far. but that's not counting electricity.
This wouldn't put me off buying another, though i would like it all to be cheaper, for sure!
I suppose if I had to guess, I will likely not see another 1000 miles on it, unless I absolutely baby it. 500 hundred maybe, would probably be more like it, I'm betting. And maybe not that.
40% Charge for Long Life?
Hi All, new to this forum and was going to start a different thread, but do not have the privileges yet.
This web site and all the posts has been an excellent resource and
recently bought two second hand ezee bikes (one for me, one for the missus.) Having spent £500 on a new battery - wanting to ensure long battery life and my bike will be using around 2 times a week only.
Both have lithium ion batteries. In all the paperwork and on the Battery University web. I am told that for storage, batteries should be kept cool (in my garage currently) and at around 40% charge.
Question is this - how do you achieve/measure the 40% charge state? Does this correspond roughly to any of the lights on the ezee bikes? Tried testing voltage with a multimeter - but don't know where to start! Help!
Second question. If 0 degreed reduces battery ageing to near 2% per year - why not store the batteries in a fridge in the garage (in a sealed plastic bag?)
Hi All, new to this forum and was going to start a different thread, but do not have the privileges yet.
This web site and all the posts has been an excellent resource and
recently bought two second hand ezee bikes (one for me, one for the missus.) Having spent £500 on a new battery - wanting to ensure long battery life and my bike will be using around 2 times a week only.
Both have lithium ion batteries. In all the paperwork and on the Battery University web. I am told that for storage, batteries should be kept cool (in my garage currently) and at around 40% charge.
Question is this - how do you achieve/measure the 40% charge state? Does this correspond roughly to any of the lights on the ezee bikes? Tried testing voltage with a multimeter - but don't know where to start! Help!
Second question. If 0 degreed reduces battery ageing to near 2% per year - why not store the batteries in a fridge in the garage (in a sealed plastic bag?)
Hi Dave, The low temperature information is only valid for longer term storage, not for a battery that is going to be used weekly or even two weekly. The battery will not charge properly or fully when cold, so every time it's reduced to around zero degrees, it will have to be brought up to ambient temperature again and that will take several hours to ensure the cell content internally is thoroughly up to temperature.
The chemical stresses of doing that repeatedly won't do the cells much good and you could end up with a shorter life.
If you have a look again at the battery university chart which I'm showing below, you'll see that with a 40% charge there's only 2% difference between the battery being kept at 0 degrees or 25 degrees, so the coldness is far from vital. The 40 percent specified is only to allow for the gradual BMS discharge that occurs over time during storage, running the battery too low damaging it. Just having it below 40% charge is sufficient, some authorities specify 20 to 40%.
There's no way that capacity can be easily measured on the spot since batteries are chemical devices, not electrical, the current being stored as a change in chemical state which cannot be measured electrically. The crude meters we have on e-bikes just measure the slight decline in voltage as a battery empties, giving an inaccurate indication.
In your case if you are using it occasionally as you indicate, best not to charge immediately after you use the bike, thus ensuring the charge state is lowered, store anywhere convenient that's not very hot (garage is fine, no need for plastic bagging) then charge again shortly before you use it next.
Don't worry too much about this storage issue since the usage wears the battery far more. I've run eZee bikes with intermittent use since 2006, had a Torq and still run a Quando that uses the identical electrical side to the Torq 1. My storage has been in cool to cold conditions but that hasn't stopped the batteries packing up at around two years maximum. As well as one NiMh one, I've used 4 lithium ones and the latest one of those has had it now and needs replacing. The very latest batteries are now said to be good for longer, but only time will tell how long.
Finally, if you do have the battery completely out of use long term at any time, it's important to recharge it at least every three months maximum, preferably every two months, or it could fail completely. Here's that chart:
The chemical stresses of doing that repeatedly won't do the cells much good and you could end up with a shorter life.
If you have a look again at the battery university chart which I'm showing below, you'll see that with a 40% charge there's only 2% difference between the battery being kept at 0 degrees or 25 degrees, so the coldness is far from vital. The 40 percent specified is only to allow for the gradual BMS discharge that occurs over time during storage, running the battery too low damaging it. Just having it below 40% charge is sufficient, some authorities specify 20 to 40%.
There's no way that capacity can be easily measured on the spot since batteries are chemical devices, not electrical, the current being stored as a change in chemical state which cannot be measured electrically. The crude meters we have on e-bikes just measure the slight decline in voltage as a battery empties, giving an inaccurate indication.
In your case if you are using it occasionally as you indicate, best not to charge immediately after you use the bike, thus ensuring the charge state is lowered, store anywhere convenient that's not very hot (garage is fine, no need for plastic bagging) then charge again shortly before you use it next.
Don't worry too much about this storage issue since the usage wears the battery far more. I've run eZee bikes with intermittent use since 2006, had a Torq and still run a Quando that uses the identical electrical side to the Torq 1. My storage has been in cool to cold conditions but that hasn't stopped the batteries packing up at around two years maximum. As well as one NiMh one, I've used 4 lithium ones and the latest one of those has had it now and needs replacing. The very latest batteries are now said to be good for longer, but only time will tell how long.
Finally, if you do have the battery completely out of use long term at any time, it's important to recharge it at least every three months maximum, preferably every two months, or it could fail completely. Here's that chart:
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Term Test Outcome - eZee battery
Tony, by what you say am i right in thinking that they would be best left in shed rather than brought indoors (took mine Sanyo off yesterday now indoors ) as cant see being used till later in new year sounds like done wrong ?
forza
Tony, by what you say am i right in thinking that they would be best left in shed rather than brought indoors (took mine Sanyo off yesterday now indoors ) as cant see being used till later in new year sounds like done wrong ?
forza
Yes, out in the shed is much better as it will be out of use long term, but it can't have come to any harm in a few days. If it's already partly discharged, best left that way until you bring it back into use.
If it's almost completely discharged now, give it a part charge before putting out, about a quarter of the usual charge time will give over a third charge since the charge rate is higher initially.
In any event, make sure that you don't leave it more than two months without charging it.
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If it's almost completely discharged now, give it a part charge before putting out, about a quarter of the usual charge time will give over a third charge since the charge rate is higher initially.
In any event, make sure that you don't leave it more than two months without charging it.
.
Nice One Flecc, just what I wanted to know,
bike in back bedroom till the better weather,and battery in shed,
Cheers Rob!
bike in back bedroom till the better weather,and battery in shed,
Cheers Rob!
Members aware that I've been conducting a confidential long term intensive test over the last six months have been variously guessing what I'm testing, and those who guessed battery have been right. When asked at the start of the year if I would be interested in doing this, the answer was obviously yes. Who would say no to free battery usage for half a year, but I trust no-one will think this a corrupt inducement.
Given the poor record of lithium bike batteries with regard to current delivery failure and short life, I was determined to give this one hell on earth, so I chose to test on the Q-bike, riding it Quando fashion all the time, resolutely refusing to pedal unless absolutely necessary just short of stalling. Every day included at least one 20% climb and at least one long climb over a minimum of three miles, and most days there were two rides, on the odd occasion three. A very few trips were short, but the many used all or most of the charge. There were half a dozen days when the weather was too bad for long rides, and for those I rigged up a two hour rate discharger, using it twice on those days, so the battery was never rested throughout the six months.
The total distance ridden was 3784 miles (5558 km) with 226 charges, similar to a years usage by a five day a week commuter doing over 15 miles a day.
Early in the test on a warm January day I did a range check on a carefully planned route that had it's final miles very flat to ensure battery cutout would be due to it's being empty rather than cut out by a sudden high loading, and the distance covered was 23.2 miles, including plenty of climbing and a 20% hill, no pedalling except just enough on that steep hill to prevent stalling.
I've now completed a repeat of the identical trip, the distance to cutout being 19.97 miles, indicating a capacity loss of 13.9%. For a year's equivalent usage on lithium this is excellent, especially given the very rough treatment it's received, including it being being smashed into two on it's trip from China and used ever since bandaged back together with duct tape. The original expert predictions for lithium were for a loss of 33% per annum. The range and charge time indicate the one I was testing is about 14 Ah, which if I'd been pedalling as well would normally get me 40 miles or more, since my 10 Ah one reaches over 30 miles normally
There are two types of this new generation battery, a 4.6 kilo Li-ion Manganese which I've been testing, made by Phylion, the company who made the failed early eZee batteries but who've clearly come on a long way since that 2006 design, and a 3.3 kilo Li-polymer made by another company being tested elsewhere in the same way, and the results have been as good on both types.
Some of the Phylion batteries appeared in prototypes for a tentative new manufacturer's e-bike, and over the last six months eZee have shipped around 1000 of these batteries worldwide as warranty replacements and in an order completion, and with both types performing as well, eZee will be adopting the lighter 3.3 kg polymer one in future. I'm told the interim Sanyo battery is to be discontinued since there have been difficulties in getting adequate supplies.
So at long last we can look forward to using the performance of these high powered bikes without the constant fear of battery cutouts and short life. I can't say at the moment when supplies will be available, but no doubt eZee or Cyclepoint will announce the arrival of the first stocks.
Footnote: Hardly pedalling for six months has been tedious, my fitness has suffered and I'm looking forward to spinning once again instead of being slumped on the saddle like a sack of spuds for hours every day.
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Hello
June 2012 I posted re my purchase of two Erolling bikes; they continue to perform well but now require replacement 36v batteries. I am content to purchase from Erolling but wonder if I should upgrade to a product that will last longer. Does anyone have advice and or experience that will guide me? Electric Transport Shop quote 330 GBP each for Panasonic re-cell and BMS.
Best regards to you all.
Nick
June 2012 I posted re my purchase of two Erolling bikes; they continue to perform well but now require replacement 36v batteries. I am content to purchase from Erolling but wonder if I should upgrade to a product that will last longer. Does anyone have advice and or experience that will guide me? Electric Transport Shop quote 330 GBP each for Panasonic re-cell and BMS.
Best regards to you all.
Nick
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
Can you show us a picture of your bike and the battery. You should be able to get two good batteries for less than £200.
Attachments
D
Deleted member 4366
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They're standard silver fish bstteries. You can get them from loads of Chinese suppliers. BMSBATTERY is pretty reliable. They give you the lock-rod and the base-plate too for guaranteed compatibility. You can even upgrade to a 12 ah or 15 ah one
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/475-36v-15ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html
http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/475-36v-15ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html
Thank you very much for your advice, much appreciated. Do you know approximately how long delivery might take? Regards, Nick
D
Deleted member 4366
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Update for info: batteries arrived in three weeks; delayed in part it seems because BMS could not find a carrier. Eventually used TNT and charged me an extra 37 USD. I did upgrade to 14Ah but the wrapping has a sticker that states 10Ah. Not sure if that relates to charging and BMS present as reluctant to engage with me; hope I have not been shafted.
On an unrelated note are you able to advise where I may be able to purchase an 8 pole weather proof inline connector to enable full wheel removal?
On an unrelated note are you able to advise where I may be able to purchase an 8 pole weather proof inline connector to enable full wheel removal?
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
If the sticker says 10ah, that's most likely what you've got. Take a photo of the sticker, send it to them and ask for a refund of the difference. If they don't reply or cooperate very soon, raise a dispute through PayPal, but you mightbe on sticky ground if your order says 20aH. Check "my orders" on BMSB site.