One Rule for Us another for the Police?

[AlMel]

Every day scenes witnessed by me on local suburban streets:

- A balletic performance given by two police motorcyclists. Weaving gently between the vehicles on my side of the carriageway, occasionally spreading over onto the other, they were raising and lowering themselves on their foot pegs, all the while spreading their arms in and out, steering their bikes with their knees. They then burnt the red lights to turn into their barracks.

- A uniformed policeman driving his van quite slowly so as better to concentrate on the conversation he was having with the mobile clutched in his hand, changing lanes without signalling only to disappear from view as he burnt the lights at which we, mere mortals, had stopped.

On the faces of the drivers around me, I saw no expression of anger; only of resignation.

Again: Stay vigilant, but be thankful!

 

[50 Hertz]

Every day scenes witnessed by me on local suburban streets:

- A balletic performance given by two police motorcyclists. Weaving gently between the vehicles on my side of the carriageway, occasionally spreading over onto the other, they were raising and lowering themselves on their foot pegs, all the while spreading their arms in and out, steering their bikes with their knees. They then burnt the red lights to turn into their barracks.

- A uniformed policeman driving his van quite slowly so as better to concentrate on the conversation he was having with the mobile clutched in his hand, changing lanes without signalling only to disappear from view as he burnt the lights at which we, mere mortals, had stopped.

On the faces of the drivers around me, I saw no expression of anger; only of resignation.

Again: Stay vigilant, but be thankful!

The police are appointed from members of the public with the intention that they reflect the make up of society. Therefore, it is likely that undesirable behaviour which the police are supposed to prevent or take action against will emerge within their own numbers. A human being's natural tendency for hypocrisy will see them commit an offence and then go on to prosecute others for the same thing. It's not very attractive to witness, but it happens. Police forces also have Professional Standards Departments and if evidence of serious wrongdoing comes to notice, officers will be sacked and or prosecuted. It's interesting to note here that the standard of proof required to sack a police officer (this is a severe punishment when loss of pension is considered, much harsher than courts dole out) is based on balance of probabilities, a much lower standard than, beyond reasonable doubt, required for us to be convicted. Police officers have been found not guilty by courts, then faced an internal retrial based on a lower standard of evidence, and then stacked whilst being innocent in the eyes of the law. The government were keen to bring this lower standard of proof into being in order to demonstrate that those who rely on the trust of the public are doing their best to maintain that trust. I wonder why they didn't extend this to themselves? A police officer would be sacked for doing a fraction of what some MPs get up to, and perhaps rightly so.

However, there is some good news to come out of all this! Those that can do a much better job and display much higher standards than the present members of the police force can actually do so. Some police forces are now recruiting, but if you are unlucky with that, you can become a Special Constable. Even if you only took on the role for a short period of time, the much higher standards of behaviour that you would bring to the police organisation could only have a positive impact.

I'm sure that anyone would agree, it's always much better lead by example, to get stuck in there and demonstrate how it should be done, rather than criticising from a distance.

 

[Scimitar]

I'm sure that anyone would agree, it's always much better lead by example, to get stuck in there and demonstrate how it should be done, rather than criticising from a distance.

BEING A PCSO - POLICE COMMUNITY SUPPORT OFFICER - YouTube

Ah, yes.

 

[flecc]

I'm sure that anyone would agree, it's always much better lead by example, to get stuck in there and demonstrate how it should be done, rather than criticising from a distance.

Nah, slouching on the couch and moaning is much easier.

 

[50 Hertz]

BEING A PCSO - POLICE COMMUNITY SUPPORT OFFICER - YouTube

Ah, yes.

That's fantastic. I particularly like the suggestion that if PCSO's are not to be allowed to carry guns, they should be able to carry knives at the very least. Classic.

 

[flecc]

That's fantastic. I particularly like the suggestion that if PCSO's are not to be allowed to carry guns, they should be able to carry knives at the very least. Classic.

What a terrible ad for PCSOs! Little wonder the real copper studiously ignored him as he drove past.

 

[AlMel]

50 Hertz: I probably didn’t make my point very clearly.

I was trying to contrast the practical application of the British notion that the police are the public and the public are the police (as quoted by flecc earlier on); with that of a country where there is a philosophical, even psychological split between those that govern and the governed.

Most police and gendarmes here do as difficult a job to the best of their abilities as do their colleagues in other civilised countries; however a significant minority behave as if they enjoyed immunity from the rules that apply to the public. In practice, police errors have to be glaring even to be reported over here, let alone addressed.

In other words, whilst it’s important to stay vigilant to detect and correct whatever mistakes the police in Britain may make, nonetheless be thankful for them; they remain a much appreciated model for the rest of the world.

 

[flecc]

In other words, whilst it’s important to stay vigilant to detect and correct whatever mistakes the police in Britain may make, nonetheless be thankful for them; they remain a much appreciated model for the rest of the world.

87,000 guests of Her Majesty would beg to disagree, almost all of them being innocent and wrongly convicted as they never tire of telling us. Millions of motorists commonly have a similar experience, and often feel compelled to remind officers that they should be trying to catch real criminals instead of persecuting innocent law-abiding motorists. As for the public at large, a large proportion are dissatisfied, both with their police activities and their invisibility on the streets.

Freemasons are generally happy with them though.

It's all in the perception.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Quite often I find their attitude to be terrible. You can only base your judgements on experiences. This is not always the case but people often base their opinion on experiences. There are good and bad but I have seen too many examples of bad. Personal experiences may not always be representative but they do matter.

 

[schoe]

Quite often I find their attitude to be terrible. You can only base your judgements on experiences. This is not always the case but people often base their opinion on experiences. There are good and bad but I have seen too many examples of bad. Personal experiences may not always be representative but they do matter.

As a serving Detective with 25 years in the job i'm sorry that you feel this way. Your opinion will certainly deter me from ever buying a bike from you.

When you have worked early turns,lates and night shifts and been spat at, had bones broken, been called more names than I care to remember, had restrictions imposed on your social life, told where you can live, not allowed to have a second job without authority then maybe you will be qualified to comment.

As for being able to retire at 50 I have been paying 340 pounds per month for 25 years and its just been increased by 3 percent. Many of my colleagues have been told they won't be able to retire when they were initially promised and will have to work an extra 7to 10 years to get a much worse pension, so the comments on this thread are not really appreciated by me as we have just had massive cuts to our wages and our pensions due to the economic problems caused by the financial sector.

If your shop is broken into who will you call ? Yes the Police will you tell the Officer that attends to his face that you don't think the Police are any good?

I personally have taken many dangerous criminals out of society, burglars, child abusers and attempted murderers and I am proud of that , it is still a great job and I try my best to do it well and to serve the public and protect life and property . I appreciate that there are bad apples but when you have several thousand people from different walks of life there are always going to be bad examples as there are in every other vocation.

Where I work 90 per cent of Officers do a great job there a few wasters but like I said there are in every profession. I hope your experience of the Police improves in the future. There is a lot of bad publicitity about us in the press at the moment and a lot of it is propaganda being used so that the Govenment can attack our pay and conditions and privatise what they can.

Please support your Police most of them just want to help and protect you and in doing so many will put themselves in danger. Remember we are the last line between order and a broken society if you don't believe me look at some other less civilised nations.

Rant over, now where can I buy that Bosch bike i've been looking for..... (or I was until I took a 15 % pay cut)

 

[Jimod]

I think the police should use bus lanes, why on earth would people complain about it. What good is a police person when stuck in traffic, they'd be as well sitting in the station waiting on a shout. Out patrolling in the bus lanes or any other lane is best.

I sometimes wonder where some people live, I must live in a great area, I never see or get half the problems people moan about on the Internet.

 

[flecc]

I sometimes wonder where some people live, I must live in a great area, I never see or get half the problems people moan about on the Internet.

They are both there and not there in every area Jim, it all depends on one's life, where one looks and where one has access to.

As I posted above, it's all in the perception, our impressions are shaped by what we see and know within our own experiences, and those vary widely.

 

[OldBob1]

Your North of Watford JimodBob

 

[Jimod]

Your North of Watford JimodBob

True and I give thanks to the good Lord every day for it.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

As a serving Detective with 25 years in the job i'm sorry that you feel this way. Your opinion will certainly deter me from ever buying a bike from you.

When you have worked early turns,lates and night shifts and been spat at, had bones broken, been called more names than I care to remember, had restrictions imposed on your social life, told where you can live, not allowed to have a second job without authority then maybe you will be qualified to comment.

As for being able to retire at 50 I have been paying 340 pounds per month for 25 years and its just been increased by 3 percent. Many of my colleagues have been told they won't be able to retire when they were initially promised and will have to work an extra 7to 10 years to get a much worse pension, so the comments on this thread are not really appreciated by me as we have just had massive cuts to our wages and our pensions due to the economic problems caused by the financial sector.

If your shop is broken into who will you call ? Yes the Police will you tell the Officer that attends to his face that you don't think the Police are any good?

I personally have taken many dangerous criminals out of society, burglars, child abusers and attempted murderers and I am proud of that , it is still a great job and I try my best to do it well and to serve the public and protect life and property . I appreciate that there are bad apples but when you have several thousand people from different walks of life there are always going to be bad examples as there are in every other vocation.

Where I work 90 per cent of Officers do a great job there a few wasters but like I said there are in every profession. I hope your experience of the Police improves in the future. There is a lot of bad publicitity about us in the press at the moment and a lot of it is propaganda being used so that the Govenment can attack our pay and conditions and privatise what they can.

Please support your Police most of them just want to help and protect you and in doing so many will put themselves in danger. Remember we are the last line between order and a broken society if you don't believe me look at some other less civilised nations.

Rant over, now where can I buy that Bosch bike i've been looking for..... (or I was until I took a 15 % pay cut)

It is a shame some of your collegues give the Police a bad name. Have we had experience of burglary before? On several occassions - yes and that experience was poor. Another example was a rock being thrown through the window. However the officer had no evidence bag so nothing further could be offered e.g. like taking item away to test for finger prints.

I made no reference to when you can retire in my posts. I am not the only one who feels this way.
As I said I can only base my opinion on experiences and these have not been good when it mattered.

There may be restrictions on the above but like any jobs there are pluses and minuses which you have to way up. Although things may have changed over time.

I would prefer to sell one less bike and be honest rather than go against my principles and be dishonest. I strongly feel that I am not the only one that feels this way.

The Police and citizens need to work together but this can not be done effectively without trust. Trust is easy to break but harder to build up. I think previosly the police had a good local relationship with citizens however this has changed and in my opinion it is important this is rebuilt. May not be the case everywhere but certianly in some places.

Not to mention the recent case of an officer suing which might make people reluctant to call the police in case they are sued. Although the chance of this is acutally very small.

I hope you can understand my point of view because I would love for my future experiences to be better!

 

[50 Hertz]

It is a shame some of your collegues give the Police a bad name. Have we had experience of burglary before? On several occassions - yes and that experience was poor. Another example was a rock being thrown through the window. However the officer had no evidence bag so nothing further could be offered e.g. like taking item away to test for finger prints.

I made no reference to when you can retire in my posts. I am not the only one who feels this way.
As I said I can only base my opinion on experiences and these have not been good when it mattered.

There may be restrictions on the above but like any jobs there are pluses and minuses which you have to way up. Although things may have changed over time.

I would prefer to sell one less bike and be honest rather than go against my principles and be dishonest. I strongly feel that I am not the only one that feels this way.

The Police and citizens need to work together but this can not be done effectively without trust. Trust is easy to break but harder to build up. I think previosly the police had a good local relationship with citizens however this has changed and in my opinion it is important this is rebuilt. May not be the case everywhere but certianly in some places.

Not to mention the recent case of an officer suing which might make people reluctant to call the police in case they are sued. Although the chance of this is acutally very small.

I hope you can understand my point of view because I would love for my future experiences to be better!

I think that a big stride forward in police and public relations would be achieved if people stopped believing the garbage published by The Daily Mail.

 

[schoe]

Hi. I agree that you should be honest about your experiences and I am sorry that the way that you have been dealt with has not left you with much confidence in the Police.

Flecc is spot on in that everybody forms their opinion based on their own personal experiences and on what they read in the Press. The Press have got a massive axe to grind with the Police at the moment as have the Government so they are putting out as many anti Police stories as possible. (Hence the story you refer to I’m sure that the circumstances are not as clear cut as reported and even if they are that is an individual Officers decision and is not common practice, it is not supported by the Chief Constable in her Force and may well be chucked out by the Civil Court)

In my Force a couple of days ago a local business had in excess of £20000 stolen in a burglary we have recovered that money and several people have been charged but this won’t be publicised by the Press however if this had been your Business I am sure that your opinions may well have changed.

Going back to the original point you raised the thread about the Police Officers using the bus lane, you should only activate your emergency equipment if justified and if the call is classed as an immediate risk however they may still have needed to get somewhere quickly (for instance one of their colleagues may have stopped someone they knew to be violent and who was about to be arrested but had not actually started to kick off at that point) If while in the bus lane they had been involved in an accident then they would be investigated and have had to justify their actions to their Senior Officers.
My point is you should not jump to conclusions and think that they are breaking the law; we all have to be accountable for our actions, and believe me we are investigated thoroughly if we have not acted correctly in accordance with the Law or procedures.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I agree regarding jumping to conclusions but lights take a while to change so if he was in a rush I would imagine that he would have put on his lights and gone through the lights. Also not the first time, may be wrong but small things make a difference and influence perceptions. Similar instance in Norwich car used wrong lane to cut up traffic.
I think people just want to be treated equally if we brake rules we get punished which is fair e.g. I would imagine a citizen would be fined for driving in a bus lane or at least warned. However in an emergency I would expect any emergency service to use quickest route and drive accordingly.

People assume police cars without lights on are not in emergerncy, not always correct. This is where the problem lies. Ideally they would always have ligts flashing in an emergency however I imagine their are specific protocals for this and it is not always possible. I would compare situation to wind turbines people see them not turning and it is a visual signal that they are not working despite the fact that they might be undergoing maintenance work at that point.

I think we all want to have confidence in the police. I would love future experiences to be this way if we were unlucky enough to need help. Problem with anything in the media is that it distorts perceptions their is good scientific evidence of this. This is why I normally take what I read with a pinch of salt and base my judgements on experiences. Perhaps we should relocate to your area

 

[schoe]

Please do relocate the more electric bike shops near me the better!

No more to be said by me except remember if you were to find out that an electric bike shop provided poor service that should not tarnish you its the same in my job.




Sent from my LT15i using Tapatalk 2

 

[Scimitar]

Nipping it in the bud is one thing, but putting the sheets up a 12 year old kid - well, that's something else. How are we meant to have any respect for idiots who do this kind of thing?
Schoolboy warned by police over picket plan at David Cameron's office | UK news | The Guardian