Pendleton Somerby Upgrade

[Seajay]

Hi,
My wife has a Pendleton Somerby E Bike, fitted with a Bafang Rear Hub RM 201.D 250w Motor, a 36V 8.7ah Battery and a King Meter 790 display. (brake cut offs also fitted)
She has a big problem with pas delay when starting to climb a hill after descending. The power simply doesn't seem to kick in and she ends up having to pedal really hard and gets very little pas. Also, she only gets around 12 miles out of a fully charged battery. (we live in a hilly area)
We want to keep the rear motor (as she likes the style of the bike) but change the display to an LCD with thumb throttle, which I believe also means changing the controller and replace the battery with a higher ah rated one. Somewhere around 15ah. The existing battery is a rear pannier mounted one. The battery slips into a case, that also houses the controller.
Can anyone recommend/identify the parts required to achieve this and if so, where to purchase from in the uk.
Many thanks
Chris

 

[Nealh]

Matching the battery might be awkward as there are so many different ones, pics would help.
By far easier as the battery goes is to speak to Jimmy at ebikebatteries.co.uk to re- cell the existing case with better cells to give more capacity using nice 10a cells and maybe be able to fit more cells then your case currently has.
The controller you will have to take pics with dimensions to see what will fit, preferably if one would fit I would use 9 mosfet KT controller for a hilly location as it will run cooler along with a 10 or 12 poles pedal sensor and a throttle all bought from the same vendor.
Also we would need to see a pic of the hub motor connection/connector.

 

[Seajay]

Matching the battery might be awkward as there are so many different ones, pics would help.
By far easier as the battery goes is to speak to Jimmy at ebikebatteries.co.uk to re- cell the existing case with better cells to give more capacity using nice 10a cells and maybe be able to fit more cells then your case currently has.
The controller you will have to take pics with dimensions to see what will fit, preferably if one would fit I would use 9 mosfet KT controller for a hilly location as it will run cooler along with a 10 or 12 poles pedal sensor and a throttle all bought from the same vendor.
Also we would need to see a pic of the hub motor connection/connector.

HI,
Thank you very much for your informative reply. I will contact Jimmy at ebikebatteries and convey your remarks. I will have to take the battery case apart (if possible) to get to the controller, as it sits inside the case behind the battery. I have attached a pic of the motor plug, it has 9 pins. If/when I get to the controller I will get pics and sizes and post on here. Is Jimmy able to supply all components? Final question, is this unit programmable, like the bafang mid drives?
Many thanks again for your help and very useful information.
Best regards
Chris

 

[Nealh]

Jimmy doesn't sell the controllers but we can supply links to buy them and the parts like PAS, throttle etc, you will need.
The motor connector is a standard 9 pin Julet it is an industry standard connector for 99% of hub motors, it is for sensored/sinewave controller.

Hub motor controller aren't programmable like the mid drive integrated ones, but if you buy the correct make and lcd you can make some adjustments like reducing current and some other minor changes.

Bafang made a mistake making the mid drive programmable, initially it was for dealers only to set the parameters to a tame setting to prevent uses blowing the controller. Eventually someone sussed it out or it leaked out that they were programmable and software programmes was designed/leaked to the ebike world, the controllers aren't reliable and blow because of their size and the heat they have to withstand at times form those who max them out. That said my first BBS controller I didn't touch and it still blew.

 

[Sturmey]

Have similar problem occasionaly. There was a discussion a while back which may be relevant. You could try anotherkiwi's suggestion to wait until the speed drops below 23-22 kph before pedaling again but this did not work for me. There is a suggestion that disconnecting the speed sensor wire might work but no one has verified if this is the case.

Bafang conversion kit : Recovery from over-speed is slow

Heyo, I have a 250 W Dillenger front hub kit on a 10-y-old hybrid commuter which has transformed my commute, but: When I sail down a hill which puts the road speed over the limit of 15.5 mph, the motor freewheels (great), but when I start up the next hill the controller waits until the road...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[Benjahmin]

This may be partly understanding the system.
Obviously over 15.5mph the power will cut out and will not re-engage until below this speed - perhaps 14mph. There is also a delay between starting to rotate the peddles and power kicking in. But, once initialised at first start up, that really shouldn't be more than sbout half a revolution of the peddles.
So as you come to the bottom of the hill you need to start turning the peddles, even if it's just rotating them. Then, as the speed drops on going up hill, the motor should cut in pronto and you'll be in a position to change gear as needed.
The other suggestion is to see how many magnets the pas disc has. Sometimes changing it for one with more magnets can give a quicker power pick up, although this can also necessitate a change in a controller parameter. Don't know the particular system so not sure.

 

[Nealh]

It will be down to how the controller interprets the input from the PAS, some pick up the signal quite quickly other don't so there will be a delay.
My Kt controllers register the signal approx. 0.2 - 0.4 mph below the cut off speed after exceeding it, so with my cut off set to 16.7mph It will feed back in at about 16.3 or 16.4pmh. Above 16.7mph I can pedal to 19 -21 ish dependant on terrain/weather and how strong my legs feel.

 

[Seajay]

Jimmy doesn't sell the controllers but we can supply links to buy them and the parts like PAS, throttle etc, you will need.
The motor connector is a standard 9 pin Julet it is an industry standard connector for 99% of hub motors, it is for sensored/sinewave controller.

Hub motor controller aren't programmable like the mid drive integrated ones, but if you buy the correct make and lcd you can make some adjustments like reducing current and some other minor changes.

Bafang made a mistake making the mid drive programmable, initially it was for dealers only to set the parameters to a tame setting to prevent uses blowing the controller. Eventually someone sussed it out or it leaked out that they were programmable and software programmes was designed/leaked to the ebike world, the controllers aren't reliable and blow because of their size and the heat they have to withstand at times form those who max them out. That said my first BBS controller I didn't touch and it still blew.

HI,
OK I have got to the controller. (see pics)
The controller measures 92mm L x 46mm W x 20mm D. The pedal sensor has 12 magnets, so should be ok.
There are 4 cables coming out of the controller, one is to the battery, one to the motor, one to the pedal sensor and one to the front of the bike splits into three, 2 Brake cut offs and display.

Are you able to advise replacements from this info?
Regards
Chris

 

[Nealh]

HI,
OK I have got to the controller. (see pics)
The controller measures 92mm L x 46mm W x 20mm D. The pedal sensor has 12 magnets, so should be ok.
There are 4 cables coming out of the controller, one is to the battery, one to the motor, one to the pedal sensor and one to the front of the bike splits into three, 2 Brake cut offs and display.

Are you able to advise replacements from this info?
Regards
Chris

I will look in couple of hours time, must go and see to my bees as it is set for rain tomorrow and cloudy the day after.

 

[Nealh]

The Santroll at 20mm is quite thin you will have to get your Blue Peter kit out and make up a card box 86 x 52 x 31 or 94 x 61 x 35 to see if it they will fit which is about as small as you will get for 15a controller if you want a wee bit more power a 17a controller is the same size.

 

[Seajay]

The Santroll at 20mm is quite thin you will have to get your Blue Peter kit out and make up a card box 86 x 52 x 31 or 94 x 61 x 35 to see if it they will fit which is about as small as you will get for 15a controller if you want a wee bit more power a 17a controller is the same size.

Hi Neal,
A box made to the larger size 94 x 61 x 35 fits in the compartment but not a lot of space left for the wires, so lid would probably need a new cable cut out and plugs would maybe have to sit outside the compartment and be made waterproof.
It would be nice to have a bit more power if poss, so the 17a controller sounds good.
I am now open to your suggestions of what parts I need and where to get them from.
Many thanks
Best regards
Chris

 

[Nealh]

The Julet connectors that you currently have are water proof as will be the ones on a new controller your best option is a 6 mosfet KT 17a controller with Julet connector and a new screen, the julet connectors use a standard wire sequence so the PAS .

What colour is the julet connector for the brakes Red or Yellow ?
Also can you show us a pic of that complete cable, is it 1T4 cable ?

 

[Seajay]

The Julet connectors that you currently have are water proof as will be the ones on a new controller your best option is a 6 mosfet KT 17a controller with Julet connector and a new screen, the julet connectors use a standard wire sequence so the PAS .

What colour is the julet connector for the brakes Red or Yellow ?

The connector to the brake lever is RED.

 

[Nealh]

You can reuse the brake, PAS connection & motor cable. The Red brake connector only available with 15a KT controller.

Items you will need to buy.
15a KT controller with WP connectors.

T06S 36V/48V 250W-350W 15A KT Sine Wave Controller with Julet WP Plug [T06S WP Controller] - $26.60 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

Zen Cart! T06S 36V/48V 250W-350W 15A KT Sine Wave Controller with Julet WP Plug [T06S WP Controller] - ★★★★★ T06S 36V/48V 250W-350W 15A KT Sine Wave Controller with Julet WP Plug 1--Rate Voltage:36V/48V 2--Rated Current:7A 3--Maximum Current:15±1A 4--Low Voltage Protection:DC30/40V±0.5V...

www.topbikekit.com

Lcd3 or 4 display with WP connector Green.
From the drop down display box.

IT4 trunk cable if yours isn't the same.

1-4 Julet Extend Cable Ebike Waterproof Cable 29.5/72.5/140cm for Meter/Brake/Throttle [Julet 1-4 WP Cable] - $4.28 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

Zen Cart! 1-4 Julet Extend Cable Ebike Waterproof Cable 29.5/72.5/140cm for Meter/Brake/Throttle [Julet 1-4 WP Cable] - ★★★★★ 1-4 Julet Extend Cable Ebike Waterproof Cable 29.5/72.5/140cm for Meter/Brake/Throttle 1--2Pins Red color connector for brake 2--3Pins yellow color connector for...

www.topbikekit.com

Select it from the drop down cable box.

Throttle is you want one.
From the drop down throttle box.
108X model is more waterproof.

For the other drop down boxes where you don't need an item make sure you select without.



If you select DHL delivery there will be duty and a £12 handling fee so about £20 on top, the slow boat China route might be free duty.

 

[Nealh]

If you want 17a controller from Aliexpress for a bit more power then you will have to change the brake levers as only 3 pin ones appear to be available.
Postage and duty free.

Controller WP.

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

Display WP.

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

1T4 cable, 8 pin.

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

Brakes, WP pair.

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

Throttle WP.

Group - Shop Cheap Group from China Group Suppliers at SOMEDAY ebike accessories Store on Aliexpress.com

Shopping for Cheap Group at SOMEDAY ebike accessories Store and more from on Aliexpress.com ,the Leading Trading Marketplace from China

www.aliexpress.com

 

[Seajay]

WOW! Thank you for all that, it is much appreciated.
I have ordered the 15a unit and other items from Topbike, as it saves replacing the brake levers. I have paid by paypal and have received my receipt from paypal but no order acknowledgement from Topbike yet?
Is this normal? I have gone with DHL, any idea of delivery times?
I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks again for all your help.
Regards
Chris

 

[Seajay]

Order acknowledgement has arrived, it was in my junk mailbox.
Cheers

 

[Nealh]

My last order placed just in March took a good 4 weeks to arrive probably due to the Covid 19 but things have settled a bit since then and might be a bit speedier now.
Log in to your TBK account to keep an eye on the order status once it moves to sent you should get it in about 4 days, DHL will before delivering it send you a text message or email asking for the duty to be paid first, duty is on the based on the package price + £12 handing fee.
My last came to about £200 which I paid all told about £24 duty/fees.
I can't fault TBK and they delivered as promised and sent all the right parts I ordered, the site is quite comprehensive with items for sale.

 

[Seajay]

Thanks for that, good to know.
I received email this morning to say items have been shipped. Very quick!
Just one more thing "sorry". Was just thinking about it all this morning. Does the hub motor have a built in speed sensor? Only there is no speed sensor on the bike and no provision in the cabling? Just a bit confused that's all.

 

[Nealh]

Yes you have internal speed sensor the motor connector has 9 pins, the ninth pin tells us this.

Also a bit late now I should have asked you to confirm the brake connectors have the Julet name embossed on them.

Shipped already very efficient I would think all will be with you by end of next week.