Powertrike Xtra throttle broken

[Deleted member 4366]

This one is pretty standard, so should work OK:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181658516029&alt=web

 

[Paul Holzherr]

What about the watt rating on the motor. Is it important to match the watt rating of the controller to the motor? I have been unable to find out what mine is - I saw another thread here where someone had a powertrike with a 150W motor so mine might also be 150W. The controller in the link above is 500W.

 

[shemozzle999]

Hi Paul,

A few of questions, where does the cable with the blue,brown and earth wire go to?

I think I can see the sleeving on the throttle cable has been snagged up by the handlebar are the individual black, red and white wires damaged there?

There is also a magnet on one of your spokes is there a sensor attached to the left hand side of the forks?

 

[Paul Holzherr]

Hi shemozzle999 - Blue,brown + earth is the power cable - to battery. Yes the sleeving is a bit damaged but I don`t think the wires are corrupted but I will check again. There was a speedometer/milometer attached once but I removed it years ago.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Before getting a new controller, it would be nice if we could eliminate the throttle as beeing a culprit. You could get the same symptoms if you had a short between the red and white throttle wires. It's unlikely though that that's your problem because most controllers check for it when you switch them on, and they won't give power if they detect it Could you unplug the white connector on the pcb and see if it still immediately goes when you switch on. What do those two green wires do on the same connector?

It's a pretty good bet that you have blown mosfets because it's a very common problem with brushed controllers. If you have a meter that can test continuity (beep or resistance), you could confirm it by measuring between the positive battery wire and the positive motor wire, and then between the two negatives. They should be open, i.e. no beep or infinite resistance. If it beeps or you see zero resistance, one or more mosfets are blown.

The battery wires are connected direcly to the battery wires, but the current is blocked by healthy mosfets. When you open the throttle, the circuitry makes the mosfets pulse open to let the power through like a sort of valve. When blown, they're open aĺ the time, which is why you get maximum power.

The watts rating of the motor is pretty meaningless. Mostly, they rate them low enough to comply with regulations. The Heinzmann motor is rated at 200w, but the controller allows 28 amps at 36v, which is 1000w. I believe that the old Powabykes run at about 20 amps, and looking at your controller, I can see at least four mosfets, wich implies about 20 amps. The one I linked to was 21A IIRC. If you notice that it gives more power, you can always use a bit less throttle. Motors don't burn unless you give too much power when going slow climbing up steep hills. Sometimes, more power makes them climb better, so you get less overheating.

 

[Paul Holzherr]

I just checked the chafed wiring from the throttle - there is a small area where the wire appears to be bare but I cannot say for sure if this is severe enough to cause a short. It only seems to be on one wire. I think I might get a meter to check what you said. I realise it may take me a while to get the old trike back up and running so some investment and maybe also some FAILS may be required. I just plugged everything back in and did a check. When I turn on the ignition I do get the flashing leds. When I depress the left brake lever which is also the cut out switch (the green wires you mentioned), the lights stop moving which is when by turning the throttle to full, is the usual way of starting the machine. Now when I do this throttling there is no reaction which suggests that the problem may be in the throttle or the controller. I might also get a new throttle to see what happens. The existing one has a broken spring so I might do well with a new one anyway. By the way this problem did not happen instantly, it took 2 or 3 rides to finally stop altogether. It went from a kind of jerkiness in the power delivery which actually seemed to lessen during the outing - to total failure - which does not sound like something blowing. If I get a new throttle should it be a hall sensor like this one or I have seen some described as having wiring loom.

 

[shemozzle999]

There was a similar thread a few years ago where flecc tried to help but it was without a successful conclusion as I think the owner gave up but it did shed some light on the throttle hall device:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/broke-my-throttle.6743/#post-111784

After looking up the hall data sheet it appears the device should output between 2.1v to 3.6v on the output pin to the controller.

You would need to check this with a voltmeter. Flecc also identified the pin outs on the hall device so you just need to identify the 0v and output wire colours at the throttle end then put your meter on the wires at the controller end, which appear to go to the white connectors on the pcb, and measure the voltage as you twist the throttle.

Looking at the flicker photos in thread it appears the middle pin is 0v is white and the output pin is black the supply pin is red. The device has a maximum supply voltage of 8v but I assume this might be switched by the keyswitch between 5v and 8v to give the slow and fast speed.

Hall device: UGN3503U

Datasheet:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/55098/ALLEGRO/UGN3503U.html

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Mosfets don't repair themselves, so if the problem was intermittent, it isn'tva mosfet.

You should be able to use any ebike throttle. They all have a 5v hall sensor in. Make sure the description says for ebike snd not scooter because some scooter ones are either on/off or have two levels of power

 

[Paul Holzherr]

I came across this forum by googling my problem and arrived at the thread you mentioned above so I have looked through that thread. So I think I will start by getting a new throttle and a multimeter and then talk to the people who took over the PDQ stuff on Monday and see if I can get any more clues. Thanks for all your help - really appreciated here! I think if someone could point towards a kit which included everything needed to get the trike going, like controller/throttle/ignition that would be helpful. It seems that the PDQ setup is esoteric and has lots of people baffled! Most of the kit is in good order and works well and does what it is supposed to. All I need is something to communicate between the Battery - the throttle and the motor! I`m not particularly fussed about safety cutout levers etc. I expect manufacturers are required by law to include this stuff. So I will reply to this thread again when I am further on down the road - so to speak - I wish

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hopefully a throttle will sort you out. If not, it's not at all difficult or expensive to change over the whole control system.

 

[Paul Holzherr]

Thank you d8veh! I hope so too!

 

[Cyclezee]

The Heinzmann motor is rated at 200w, but the controller allows 28 amps at 36v, which is 1000w.

Just a point about Heinzmann Classic motors, they range from 200w up to 500w with controllers from 20 to 33 amps.

This old girl of mine would pull a train

 

[Paul Holzherr]

So here`s what happened - I phoned Davinci Mobility, spoke to a very helpful person who said that it was hardly ever the throttle at fault - he said that it is often the connectors where the motor plugs into the control box that causes problems with this machine and that they seem to melt. When I checked them for a second time I noticed a grease like substance in and around the connectors - I cleaned this the best I could and - it works!!! Today is a good day

 

[Dick Splash]

This one is pretty standard, so should work OK:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181658516029&alt=web

Because the powertrike has a built in battery indicator in the controller will the above controller work if you don't connect the battery indicator wires to anything?

Sorry for hijacking the thread.