The Anything Thread that is Never off subject.

[Tony1951]

I can agree with that.
I wish Starmer will find the way to defeat Farage.
Reform has increased its popularity hugely in the last 8 months, profiting from the unpopularity of the winter fuel debacle.
That has now subsided since Starmer did a half u-turn on that. Latest poll shows Reform at 28%.

Lol - i've told you repeatedly how he can defeat Farage, but you find it obnoxious and that other gentleman (who recently said i was a follower of Enoch Powell) says the ideas belong in another century... ROFLMAO!!! He says that, but recognises my facts are broadly correct....

The way to defest Farage, is to do what i said, and recognise that in a democracy, politicians MUST RESPOND TO WHAT PEOPLE WANT.

They are not put there to dictate to the people. This isn't Russia, or facist Spain, Greece, Portugal, or Italy. They are there to do what the people want and expect. But for Starmer and Labour, there is no chance.

Angela Rayner has i understand told him this. There were briefings from cabinet meetings about six weeks ago. The ideas she is said to have expressed, probably stem from her survival instinct rather than a comitment to representative democracy, but who knows for sure.

She likely has a more rooted understanding of ordinary people than he does. I know he keeps saying his dad was a toolmaker. The guy certainly made a tool when he begat him.

 

[Woosh]

The way to defest Farage, is to do what i said, and recognise that in a democracy, politicians MUST RESPOND TO WHAT PEOPLE WANT.

Starmer is doing just that. Your list of what you think what people want isn't right though. If you say security, stable jobs, low inflation, better health care, better schools, easy access to owning their own house then I would agree entirely.

 

[Tony1951]

Just having a rest on my bike ride in Newcastle. Got the old Brompton out this time.

 

[flecc]

The way to defeat Farage, is to do what i said, and recognise that in a democracy, politicians MUST RESPOND TO WHAT PEOPLE WANT.

The people only think they know what they want. That's why enacting the populism you ask for always fails when the public see the outcome. Yes, Farage may well win next time, but will follow that with failure when the people chuck him out.

They are not put there to dictate to the people.

Yes they are, that is precisely how elective democracy works and why it's often called elective dictatorship.

What is needed now is NOT what people think they want. What's needed now is to give them what they really want, to be happy and content.

How? Simple, follow the Scandinavian example where the people are happy and content even when things are not always going well.

Labour has had that opportunity twice but failed by choosing to have pseudo Labour leaders like Blair and Starmer, both trying to succeed the Tory way. Neither had the guts to do what is really necessary, greatly increase taxation to the point that the country's income gives the people what they really desire and which makes them happy and content; security, stability, good housing, high employment, social support when necessary.

Of course you and our English small c conservative large majority will reject any such policy out of hand and vote further Right, so we will continue in decline far into the future, lurching from Right to Left with an occasional dalliance with a Centre that doesn't in truth exist.
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[jonathan.agnew]

Just having a rest on my bike ride in Newcastle. Got the old Brompton out this time.

View attachment 64027

Change of subject, I know, but have you tried a birdy? I have a Brompton, thought for years the cramped cockpit, severe road buzz from rock hard little tyres, primitive fork and odd geometry was just me. Even fitted a rohloff to it, but never enjoyed it. Then, year ago or so, picked up mk2 birdy in charity shop. Chalk and cheese, you can spend an entire day on a birdy and feel increasingly happy, no road buzz due to fork, great geometry.
I put it down to culture, there's something masochistic about us British. Not so much with Germans like herr riese und muller. It's why we voted for brexit, pursue offshore tax havens, tax avoidance at cost of public services, effective cancer treatment, social care. Have neocons like starmer or jokes like truss or farage. We enjoy nothing more than truly rogering ourselves.
edit - apologies if that sounded dismissive, i still have my old brompton, couldnt bear to let it go, too many fond memories

 

[Tony1951]

The people only think they know what they want. That's why enacting the populism you ask for always fails when the public see the outcome. Yes, Farage may well win next time, but will follow that with failure when the people chuck him out.



Yes they are, that is precisely how elective democracy works and why it's often called elective dictatorship.

What is needed now is NOT what people think they want. What's needed now is to give them what they really want, to be happy and content.

How? Simple, follow the Scandinavian example where the people are happy and content even when things are not always going well.

Labour has had that opportunity twice but failed by choosing to have pseudo Labour leaders like Blair and Starmer, both trying to succeed the Tory way. Neither had the guts to do what is really necessary, greatly increase taxation to the point that the country's income gives the people what they really desire and which makes them happy and content; security, stability, good housing, high employment, social support when necessary.

Of course you and our English small c conservative large majority will reject any such policy out of hand and vote further Right, so we will continue in decline far into the future, lurching from Right to Left with an occasional dalliance with a Centre that doesn't in truth exist.
.

Patronising, nonsense and balderdash.

You regularly show how much you despise your fellow citizens, exuding the hideous arrogance of the left, in the way you describe the ordinary people as if they were large children in need of constant guidance by people with wisdom -like you.

Dictatorial, antidemocratic tendencies have also been obvious in your attitude to whether people should be allowed to own motor cars.

The concept of 'democracy' is simple and well established. It respects the will of the common citizen. Your perversion of the idea is revolting.

You say, 'People only think they know what they want.'

No - they know what they want. Democracy needs to reflect that.

Farage will struggle to gain enough candidates with the experience to deliver what is needed, but on the other hand - given the record of incompetence shown by others, it could hardly be worse.

 

[Tony1951]

Change of subject, I know, but have you tried a birdy? I have a Brompton, thought for years the cramped cockpit, severe road buzz from rock hard little tyres, primitive fork and odd geometry was just me. Even fitted a rohloff to it, but never enjoyed it. Then, year ago or so, picked up mk2 birdy in charity shop. Chalk and cheese, you can spend an entire day on a birdy and feel increasingly happy, no road buzz due to fork, great geometry.
I put it down to culture, there's something masochistic about us British. Not so much with Germans like herr riese und muller. It's why we voted for brexit, pursue offshore tax havens, tax avoidance at cost of public services, effective cancer treatment, social care. Have neocons like starmer or jokes like truss or farage. We enjoy nothing more than truly rogering ourselves.
edit - apologies if that sounded dismissive, i still have my old brompton, couldnt bear to let it go, too many fond memories

The Brompton has all the faults you describe Jonathan, but I think Andrew Ritchie - its designer was focused on creating a folding bike which could collapse into the neatest, and smallest package for taking on public transport, or into an office or small urban flat. I note that they now make a twenty inch wheeled version, which I expect rides rather better. On good roads - aside from its frisky handling, the 16" Brompton goes along at a good speed and reasonable comfort, but on our now ruined roads, it can be unpleasant.

Around twenty years ago, I had a TSR27 Moulton. That was a far superior road bike and I could ride it almost 40 miles in 2 hours. It just flew along and handled well. Its fold was awful though. In fact it didn't really fold, you removed a couple of pins and it came in half.

It was a very expensive bike and I was constantly worried it would be stolen, so I never used it as day to day transport. I sold it it to an American millionaire I met on a folding bike forum. He flew from San Franscisco to Heathrow, met me in London and bought it. He told me he had that many air miles that the flight cost him nothing. He even compensated me for the petrol I used in driving it down from Newcastle. As I recall, he added £40 to the price.

My TSR27



I've never ridden a Birdie, but years ago when I frequented that folding bike forum, there were many advocates of the design. I think they were expensive.

EDIT:

I just remembered one of the really good features of that Moulton design - it had a weird but effective front and rear suspension. Rode like silk.

 

[Tony1951]

I put it down to culture, there's something masochistic about us British. Not so much with Germans like herr riese und muller. It's why we voted for brexit, pursue offshore tax havens, tax avoidance at cost of public services, effective cancer treatment, social care.

Tax avoidance is entirely legal and proper.

It exactly follows the rules set out by a succession of chancellors.

Do you have an ISA? Do you, or did you contribute to a pension scheme? Might your children benefit from inheritance tax exemptions when you die and your house is sold? Have you benefited in your life from married tax allowance rates? Have you ever had child tax credit or its predecessor benefits?

This is Tax avoidance. You take advantage of allowances which were deliberately created to encourage saving, pension provision, marriage ,and having families.

Chancellors set rules DELIBERATELY to encourage certain kinds of enterprise or financial behaviour and DESIGN incentives to encourage those things. There is nothing wrong with claiming the reliefs they designed.

Tax evasion is a different thing and I am sure that tax avoidance and evasion are not just British characteristics.

EDIT:

Jonathan - there used to be a cricket commentator on the BBC with the same name as you. Was that you? He retired maybe last year.

 

[Woosh]

Tax avoidance is entirely legal and proper.

there are just too many of those carve outs.
How many people can use them up? Second pension contribution after retirement, life insurance premiums etc. Take lifetime gifting (no limit), junior ISA gifting (£9k per grandchild per annum), ISA (£20k per annum), free business assets up to 1M etc and the rich still want more.

 

[Tony1951]

there are just too many of those carve outs.
How many people can use them up? Second pension contribution after retirement, life insurance premiums etc. Take lifetime gifting (no limit), junior ISA gifting (£9k per grandchild per annum), ISA (£20k per annum), free business assets up to 1M etc and the rich still want more.

DELIBERATELY made by democratically elected Parliaments of both Labour and Conservative type. At every change of government, it was open to Chancellors to repeal, change or grant new exemptions.

 

[Woosh]

DELIBERATELY made by democratically elected Parliaments of both Labour and Conservative type. At every change of government, it was open to Chancellors to repeal, change or grant new exemptions.

That justifies the pink tory label.
Starmer can set a limit to family trust contribution, life time gifts etc to say £10 millions.
That is enough for most families with less than 2.4 children. How much would you like to leave to your grandchildren? £100k each? £500k each? Even £100k is sufficient to avoid student loans when they grow up and you won't be there. So why unlimited lifetime gifts? The amount collected will be very substantial with just that simple change and it will hit only those who leave more than £100 millions.

 

[flecc]

You regularly show how much you despise your fellow citizens, exuding the hideous arrogance of the left, in the way you describe the ordinary people as if they were large children in need of constant guidance by people with wisdom -like you.

You really do reply with such utter nonsense. If I was anything like that I would be inclined to be involved in politics, but I never have been, have never been a member of any political party, nor ever demonstrated against any government, accepting every government elected by the majority, and its decisions, however much I might have disliked them.

Dictatorial, antidemocratic tendencies have also been obvious in your attitude to whether people should be allowed to own motor cars.

I have never posted such a belief, nor do I agree with such a restriction. What I have done is warned that restricted ownership of cars is being surreptitiously designed into our western world as a matter of policy and why the authorities are doing that, its implementation already well advanced.

The concept of 'democracy' is simple and well established. It respects the will of the common citizen. Your perversion of the idea is revolting.

Yours is the perversion in posting your view of what democracy is. We do not have that democracy enacting the will of the people. Instead, and I repeat, we have an elective democracy in which the will of those elected to represent us is enacted. The two can be and often are very different.

You say, 'People only think they know what they want.'

No - they know what they want. Democracy needs to reflect that.

If they’d known what they wanted they’d have it by now after so many governments since 1950, despite the deficiencies of our democracy.

Farage will struggle to gain enough candidates with the experience to deliver what is needed, but on the other hand - given the record of incompetence shown by others, it could hardly be worse.

True, but Reform will still fail to satisfy because, despite the people thinking his is the solution, it is not, nor ever will be.
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[Woosh]

True, but Reform will still fail to satisfy because, despite the people thinking his is the solution, it is not, nor ever will be.
.

Farage pledges to reduce immigration and taxes,opposes net zero. That's about it. His politics is of grievances.
If he has expanded further afield, such as the nhs, student loans, the military, trade deals, nuclear reactors, house building, evs etc, he will lose supporters. Latest polls suggest hung parliament. I reckon the chance of farage to be next pm is as high as Johnson makes a comeback.

 

[Tony1951]

Just listening to this BBC radio programme about the way an address had to be drafted for the President to deliver in the event that the first moon landing astronauts could not be returned to earth.

BBC World Service - Witness History, In event of moon disaster: 'The speech that never was'

Richard Nixon's contingency speech in case the moon landing astronauts never made it home

www.bbc.co.uk

Quite an interesting listen, but I was thinking had a tragedy occurred and the men died in the moon landing attempt, it would in reality have been little different to what happened all the time when men were lost at sea. Tens of thousands have died at sea I would guess in the last hundred years, not to mention the loss of explorers trying to investigate the Arctic and Antarctic regions.

Scott's hopeless expedition to the South Pole was but one case of the sort.