The Anything Thread that is Never off subject.

Tony1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 29, 2025
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I don't share his opinion but it's a free world.
Ah so it is OK to celebrate the murder of 1400 Jews and to do so in London?

It is OK that Iran and other states in the region fund Hamas - an organisation dedicated to murdering Jews and exploiting the Palestinians?

I can quite understand and easily agree with people who say that Netanyahu's pursuit of the war in Gaza against Hamas has disproportionately harmed civilians, given the way he has conducted it. There are people in Israel saying the same thing. They are Jews.

The main issue that Murray was talking about, but which you seem to disdain, was his revulsion for the widespread support for Hamas in London - a horrible dictatorial organisation dedicated to terror attacks and the murder of Jews. You support Hamas - it seems, or am I mistaken somehow. It does follow from what you said.
 

Woosh

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Ah so it is OK to celebrate the murder of 1400 Jews and to do so in London?
I have friends and clients on both sides. Killings, especially terrorism are a no no to all of us. I am sure you know very well the history of the conflict and how many have died, are dying and still will. It's time for the conflict to stop and for people to heal. You know France has recognised the state of Palestine. I have been to a wedding when the groom and bride come from both sides of the divide and it was full of hope.
 
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Woosh

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...The people who they MUST BEG to lend them money to cover the black hole in their spending policies, take a long hard look at who is asking for money and whether it will ever be paid back.
...

So - given the realities, your suggestion that the bond market doesn't know best about whether your spending plans are nuts is highly questionable. I suggest that it probably does, and that is why it comprehensively rejected the lunatic plans of Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwateng. Massive borrowing and tax cuts. They would have rejected any massive borrowing anyway, or at least made sure that if they did lend to the UK Truss government, the interest rate would make it worth taking the risk.
Governments can still print money instead of borrowing. The mechanism is called quantitative easing. Basically, central bank (the BoE and the Fed) buy the bonds instead of auctioning them.
You can check the figures on the BoE's balance sheets,
 

Tony1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 29, 2025
368
108
I have friends and clients on both sides. Killings, especially terrorism are a no no to all of us. I am sure you know very well the history of the conflict and how many have died, are dying and still will. It's time for the conflict to stop and for people to heal. You know France has recognised the state of Palestine. I have been to a wedding when the groom and bride come from both sides of the divide and it was full of hope.
I another thread I said I was in a degree of despair about whether UK government could ever govern competently. I have a degree of influence from Cummings there. I really think he may be right about the causes of that.

However, I am in much much more gloom about the solution to the problem of Israel and the Arabs. There really is no humane solution there. While of course you are correct in being happy about the wedding you attended, and YES - there are people of good will in pockets here and there and they are present in Israel and in the Palestinian territories, but the mass of people in both areas are not really like that and they won't become like that.

I don't take any delight in saying that under Netanyahu and after the 7th October attacks, a kind of 'final solution' will become a no brainer and Israel will drive out the Palestinians. There is a word for that. Genocide. I KNOW they are talking about that solution, and looking at the actions of Netanyahu in Gaza and in the West Bank, I think this is what is going to happen.

If it does we will see a level of people movement and smuggling into Europe which will be intolerable and which WILL change the whole approach in Europe to its borders and maybe even to free movement. They will have to keep the numbers from arriving that would otherwise do so.
 

Woosh

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Food Commodity prices are down but food inflation in the UK is rocketing upwards. Why? Because the last budget placed large tax and wage bills on employers. The food supply chain employs a lot of people and has been hit hard with tax rises and wage rises mandated by Reeves and Starmer.
That is oversimplified.
Food prices go up worldwide, especially the EU where the UK source most of its food imports. Bread, butter, milk, cheeses, pasta, meat, fish etc. Elsewhere, cocoa, coffee, avocados etc all go up.
Trust me, some industries like tourism, hospitalities, restaurants etc put up their prices much more than necessary to cover the tax hike.
 

Woosh

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Woosh

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There really is no humane solution there.
I disagree. There is a groundswell hope that as Europe comes out of the shadow of US military 'protection', its voices will be heard.
 

Tony1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 29, 2025
368
108
That is oversimplified.
Food prices go up worldwide, especially the EU where the UK source most of its food imports. Bread, butter, milk, cheeses, pasta, meat, fish etc. Elsewhere, cocoa, coffee, avocados etc all go up.
Trust me, some industries like tourism, hospitalities, restaurants etc put up their prices much more than necessary to cover the tax hike.
No - what I said was a fact. Food commodity prices have declined sharply since the War driven hikes of 2022 and are still declining. UK food prices are being driven by a UK issue right now. The Labour budget.

I was listening to a supermarket CEO about a week ago explaining that the food industry employs a large number of people and people have been deliberately made more expensive to employ by NI tax changes hammering employers and by minimum wage rises. It is inescapable that these costs are passed on to consumers. This is Labour generated inflation.

This does not impact me at all, but I notice a continual rise in the cost of food at the supermarket. Most supermarkets have tiny margins. It isn't them boosting costs. They just pass on the costs imposed on them by government and by government impositions on the supply chain.
 
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Tony1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 29, 2025
368
108
I disagree. There is a groundswell hope that as Europe comes out of the shadow of US military 'protection', its voices will be heard.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

You really are insane.

This really isn't funny anymore.

I need to leave you alone.
 
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Woosh

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which armies will dominate Europe? the USA? they spend more money on treasury bills' interest than on their army. Even Trump knows that. By the time Trump leaves the WH, the core countries of the EU and UK will have been much better re-equipped to face a much weaker Russian army on conventional battele fields.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
21,679
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No - what I said was a fact. Food commodity prices have declined sharply since the War driven hikes of 2022 and are still declining. UK food prices are being driven by a UK issue right now. The Labour budget.

I was listening to a supermarket CEO about a week ago explaining that the food industry employs a large number of people and people have been deliberately made more expensive to employ by NI tax changes hammering employers and by minimum wage rises. It is inescapable that these costs are passed on to consumers. This is Labour generated inflation.

This does not impact me at all, but I notice a continual rise in the cost of food at the supermarket. Most supermarkets have tiny margins. It isn't them boosting costs. They just pass on the costs imposed on them by government and by government impositions on the supply chain.
Let's assume for a moment that producers only try to recoup the extra tax, national insurance went from 13.8% to 15% or 1.2% on their Labour cost. If you take for example Clarkson's farm, how much would that add to the farm's running cost? Thousands. I would have thought may be 0.1%. Totally insignificant compared to other running cost like energy, maintenance, insurance, equipment renewal etc which run in millions.

Here is chatGPT calculation:

It’s difficult to put a precise number on how much extra employer National Insurance contributions (NICs) have directly contributed to food price inflation in 2024, because many factors drive food inflation (commodity costs, energy, supply chains, labour, regulation). But we can sketch a reasoned estimate and constraints.


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What we know

In the UK, as of April 2024 (under the 2024 Autumn Budget), employer NICs were increased by 1.2 percentage points, from ~13.8 % to 15 %. Simultaneously, the earnings threshold for employer contributions was lowered, extending the base over which employers pay.

Many businesses, especially labour-intensive ones (like food production, retail, hospitality), indicated they would respond by raising prices, reducing margins, or adjusting employment.

The economics observatory notes that the NICs increase (and minimum wage increases) are “blamed for” upward pressure on food prices.

In the Bank of England’s Decision Maker Panel survey, 54 % of firms said they would “increase prices” in response to the NIC increase.


So qualitatively, the extra employer NICs do impose upward cost pressure, and a portion of that likely gets passed to consumers via food price inflation.


---

Estimating its quantitative contribution: rough bounds

To estimate a share of food inflation due to NIC increases, one needs:

1. The increase in average unit labour cost in the food supply chain attributable to the NIC change.


2. The share of labour costs in total food production/retail costs.


3. The extent to which those cost increases are passed through to consumers (pass-through rate).



We do not have precise numbers for all these in 2024, but we can frame plausible bounds.

Suppose labour costs in the food/retail chain account for, say, 20 %–40 % of total cost (this is plausible in labour-intensive processing, packaging, transport, retail).

The NIC increase is 1.2 percentage points over ~13.8 %, i.e. about an 8.7 % proportional increase in NIC tax burden on wages (1.2 / 13.8 ≈ 0.087). But not all wages are taxed at the full rate, and only a share of wages fall into the zone affected by the threshold change, so the effective increase in labour cost might be lower, say 3 % to 6 % of wage bill.

Then, the impact on total cost = (share of wage cost) × (proportional increase in labour cost). So e.g. if wages are 30 % of costs and NIC adds 4 % extra labour cost, that’s 0.30 × 0.04 = 0.012 = 1.2 % increase in cost baseline.

If pass-through is, say, 50 % to 100 %, then the impact on consumer prices might be 0.6 % to 1.2 % added inflation.


Thus one might estimate that the extra employer NIC contributed on the order of 0.5 % to 1.0 % of additional food price inflation in 2024 (i.e. it added that much to the year-on-year food inflation rate), as a rough guess.


---

Caveats & uncertainty

The share of labour in total cost differs greatly across food categories (fresh produce, processed foods, imported goods have lower labour share).

Some employers may absorb costs (reduce margins) rather than fully passing through to consumers.

The effect is likely lagged (not instantaneous), so 2024 might not fully reflect the cost push.

Other inflation drivers (commodity prices, energy, regulation, imports) are substantial and may swamp the effect of NIC increases.

Surveys that firms “intend” to raise prices don’t guarantee they actually do, or do so fully.



---

Summary

While we can’t pin a precise figure, a plausible estimate is that the extra employer NIC burden in 2024 may have added somewhere between 0.5 % and 1.0 % to food price inflation (i.e. increasing the food inflation rate by that margin).
 

Tony1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 29, 2025
368
108
His speech to UN's a stark example, 'oils' good, nation states/nationalism cause peace, not war', 'I stopped 7 wars' etc. If one tears oneself away from unfortunate possibility of neurological insult, confabulation it becomes more bizarre. Too blatantly unbelievable to be a smokescreen, diversionary tactic. More like chat with duchess from Alice's rabbit hole. Or kind one may have in psychiatric intensive care unit, that requires great carefulness. Who on earth's the target audience?
Just watched this video looking at pathogens that might be the next pandemic - but one more deadly than Sars-Covi-2.

Very interesting.

 

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