Torque Sensor bike with Panieers?

[trex]

the motor in the Woosh Sport TS is the XFK with freewheel and torque sensor.
XOFO make the same with cassette, you only have to specify it.
The only problem is low power. The XFK has the range of 250W-350W, same as the XF08C from MXUS (both companies abbreviate their company name to XOFO, very confusing) the XFV is much better, 250W-500W, that means both are EN15194 certified but the XFV is much better at climbing hills (same specs as 8-Fun BPM). XOFO don't put the torque sensor in the XFV.
When you have torque sensor, brake cut-out sensor is not required for EN15194. Bosch bikes don't have brake sensors.
http://www.szxfmotor.com/display.asp?id=783

 

[Deleted member 4366]

So, with a torque sensor, the bike does not need e-brakes or HWBS? So hydraulic brakes can be fit, even without those switches? Interesting, especially for us continental-europeans for which throttle is a forbidden fruit.

The rule is
"assistance shall be cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling forward such that the cut off distance does not exceed 5 m with the use of brake lever cut off switch or 2 m without the use of brake lever cut off switch."
What type of sensor you have is irrelevant. New pedal speed sensors and faster software in the controllers makes that possible without a torque sensor. The Xiongda has a very fast cut-off time. 15mph = 6.7 m/s, so it would need to cut off in about 0.3 secs, which I think it does.

 

[Arbol]

the motor in the Woosh Sport TS is the XFK with freewheel and torque sensor.
XOFO make the same with cassette, you only have to specify it.
The only problem is low power. The XFK has the range of 250W-350W, same as the XF08C from MXUS (both companies abbreviate their company name to XOFO, very confusing) the XFV is much better, 250W-500W, that means both are EN15194 certified but the XFV is much better at climbing hills (same specs as 8-Fun BPM). XOFO don't put the torque sensor in the XFV.
When you have torque sensor, brake cut-out sensor is not required for EN15194. Bosch bikes don't have brake sensors.
http://www.szxfmotor.com/display.asp?id=783

trex, I am a complete ignorant about xofo products, but when I check their webpage, it looks like from the description, the Woosh Sport TS uses the XFL motor:

http://www.xofomotor.com/display.asp?id=782

Not the XFK:

http://www.xofomotor.com/display.asp?id=783

I believe that because the XFL has torque sensor built in, while the XFK has not.

Also, the Woosh has 6 speed rear, and it seems they are using the typical black freewheels, not the traditional silver cassettes. I believe it would be hard to find a 6 speed cassette. So, this apparently rules out the XFK, while the XFL, allowing freewheels, seems logically suited to that.

I believe K means cassette for xofo.

Then, the XF-V is more powerful, I agree (as well as their XF-V(K) cassette version). But it looks like that for complying with European standards, a XFL is great, with no need of throttle, no need of PAS, no need of e-brakes, hydraulic brakes then fit easily ... probably I only miss the XFL(K) version.

 

[Arbol]

The rule is
"assistance shall be cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling forward such that the cut off distance does not exceed 5 m with the use of brake lever cut off switch or 2 m without the use of brake lever cut off switch."
What type of sensor you have is irrelevant. New pedal speed sensors and faster software in the controllers makes that possible without a torque sensor. The Xiongda has a very fast cut-off time. 15mph = 6.7 m/s, so it would need to cut off in about 0.3 secs, which I think it does.

Interesting, d8veh. So you would dare to install a Xiongda without any kind of e-brakes? BTW, I do not recall having read that your 5 pound bike has the special switches for hydraulic disc brakes, is it possible you are running the Xiongda without any kind of e-brakes?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Interesting, d8veh. So you would dare to install a Xiongda without any kind of e-brakes?

I don't have them on my test bike, though there's always the possibility that the throttle could get damaged and stay on, for which brake cut-offs are very useful.

The Woosh bike does indeed have a cassette motor.

 

[Arbol]

So, you do not feel you need the e-brakes for normal usage, right? (except of course for the security reason of the throttle you highlight).

OK, then there is something I do not understand. Let us hope trex appears here and clarifies the issue.

 

[Arbol]

the XFV is much better, 250W-500W, that means both are EN15194 certified but the XFV is much better at climbing hills (same specs as 8-Fun BPM). XOFO don't put the torque sensor in the XFV.

The XFV is EN15194? (unlike the BPM or the CST, right?).

 

[Deleted member 4366]

EN15194 isfor bikes, not motors. The motor has to be labelled or catalogued as 250w, which some CSTs and BPMs are, have suitable conductors and connectors, be waterproof, and not give out any interference emissions. Some EN15194 compliant bikes are fitted with BPM and CST motors.

 

[trex]

trex, I am a complete ignorant about xofo products, but when I check their webpage, it looks like from the description, the Woosh Sport TS uses the XFL motor:

http://www.xofomotor.com/display.asp?id=782

Not the XFK:

http://www.xofomotor.com/display.asp?id=783

I believe that because the XFL has torque sensor built in, while the XFK has not.

Also, the Woosh has 6 speed rear, and it seems they are using the typical black freewheels, not the traditional silver cassettes. I believe it would be hard to find a 6 speed cassette. So, this apparently rules out the XFK, while the XFL, allowing freewheels, seems logically suited to that.

I believe K means cassette for xofo.

Then, the XF-V is more powerful, I agree (as well as their XF-V(K) cassette version). But it looks like that for complying with European standards, a XFL is great, with no need of throttle, no need of PAS, no need of e-brakes, hydraulic brakes then fit easily ... probably I only miss the XFL(K) version.

you are right, arbol. The devil is in the details. I agree the XFL kit is great for a minimalist approach.

 

[trex]

EN15194 isfor bikes, not motors. The motor has to be labelled or catalogued as 250w, which some CSTs and BPMs are, have suitable conductors and connectors, be waterproof, and not give out any interference emissions. Some EN15194 compliant bikes are fitted with BPM and CST motors.

apparently motor makers have their motor certified for EN15194 compliance (ie 250W), same as Bosch did with their motors, none of the Bosch bikes have their bikes tested for motor power, so they can give the certificate to the factories that assemble e-bikes. The factory can then claim that their new model, based on a certificated old model but with the new motor, can be issued with the same old certificate, saving them a little cash.

 

[Arbol]

apparently motor makers have their motor certified for EN15194 compliance (ie 250W), same as Bosch did with their motors, none of the Bosch bikes have their bikes tested for motor power, so they can give the certificate to the factories that assemble e-bikes. The factory can then claim that their new model, based on a certificated old model but with the new motor, can be issued with the same old certificate, saving them a little cash.

Interesting, trex. But then this would not apply to a DIYer, who has designed his e-bike from scratch, right?

 

[trex]

DIYers can't afford SGS fees.
You still can register a domain, make yourself a certificate of conformity by the name on the domain and EN15194 sticker with that web address on the sticker. I think it's legit, as long as nobody wants to take you to Court.

 

[Arbol]

DIYers can't afford SGS fees.
You still can register a domain, make yourself a certificate of conformity by the name on the domain and EN15194 sticker with that web address on the sticker. I think it's legit, as long as nobody wants to take you to Court.

"A domain", I guess you are referring to an internet domain right?

And the "make yourself a certificate of conformity by the name on the domain", I guess you are referring that I could write a document in Word, very very similar in appearance to a normal CoC, right?

Please correct me if I am wrong, I may have misunderstood you. But the idea sounds machiavellianly delicious

 

[Arbol]

About torque sensors, a question (I probably should know the answer, but I do not, since I have never ridden a bike with torque sensor):

How does the bike know how intensely the biker is pedalling?

I dimly remember from ES there was something called Thun torque sensor, which I believe was located at the BB. So I imagine a sensor there can find out in some way the intensity of the pedalling.

But what happens when the sensor is at the rear wheel? How does the sensor find out the intensity of pedalling? Is there a way to "confuse" the sensor in order to get a lot of assistance with little effort (apart from changing the settings, of course)?

 

[Arbol]

Mmm ... there is an ad by Schwibsi at ES selling the XF-L:

https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53879

and it has a PAS. So it seems there is a PAS at the BB and a torque sensor at the rear wheel.

 

[trex]

"A domain", I guess you are referring to an internet domain right?

And the "make yourself a certificate of conformity by the name on the domain", I guess you are referring that I could write a document in Word, very very similar in appearance to a normal CoC, right?

Please correct me if I am wrong, I may have misunderstood you. But the idea sounds machiavellianly delicious

machiavelous me? where does this come from?

 

[Arbol]

So, is it necessary to have a PAS, if one has a XF-L xofo kit? Or the torque sensor at the rear wheel is all the bike needs?

 

[trex]

the Woosh Sport TS has PAS. I don't know if the PAS is used for soft starting the Sport TS or it would still work without. Andy @ Woosh would know about it. If you use the split PAS disc, it would be quite easy to fit:

 

[Arbol]

It seems the XFL needs PAS and e-brakes, so my assumption the XFL reduced significantly the number of cables was not a correct one.