Woosh Gale power cutting out & display issue

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Mike,

please email support regarding replacement of the brake levers. They are made by Artek and are quite good. The problem is usually water ingress. They are quite easy to strip it down. The switch is protected by a rubber cover but somehow water always manage to get in over time.
Check first that the brake innercables run smoothly and the levers are fully released when at rest.
Have you ridden the bike since your battery was recharged? it should do more than 35 miles now.
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
Oops, yes, my bad, they are Artek. I was looking at the grips/throttle, which are Wuxing, throttle is fine.
So are the brake switches user serviceable then? I feel a bolt head under the pivot point. If the lever comes off and the switch comes out, do the switches come apart? If spring or contact broken, no point, if corroded depends on if they clean up ok.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
they are repairable, they get stuck with rust.
usually just clean out the rust around the wire taps and switch actuator, then give them a bit of grease over the wire taps to protect them from further rain water but may not be worth the hassle, a new pair of levers costs only a few £.
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
I read in the post about a Zephyr B that its battery discharges thus:
["Each 1 Volt drop is worth about 10% of the capacity, so
...
33.5V: 30% remaining
32.5V: 20% remaining
31.5V: 10% remaining"]
So if my Woosh Gale's battery cuts out at 33.3v does that mean that mean its lost 30% capacity? As it seemed D8veh thought that it really should cut out at "33v", unless I misread his post.
My recent max mileage to shut-down (still merrily showing 4leds!) is about 32miles on pedelec over these last days.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
33.5V: 30% remaining
32.5V: 20% remaining
31.5V: 10% remaining
Those voltages are only an approximation. The actual discharge curve is more horizontal in the middle and more vertical both ends. That means the voltage drops more quickly in the first 5 miles and the last 5,
Also, The 33.3V that you see is the voltage at rest, when the battery is working, it drops a bit depending on how long and how intense it has been used just before. You have probably seen that when you stop and let the battery rest for 10 minutes, you sometimes get oneLED back on the 790's battery meter. If you want the most miles out of the battery, reduce assist level to low after 30 miles.
One often seen cause of reduced range is down to unbalanced condition. The simplest way to rebalance the battery is to run it down until the assist cuts out and recharge it to full, leave the charger on for 15 minutes longer after the LED on the charger goes green. The time it takes to recharge gives you a good indication of how much capacity your battery has now. The Gale has a 13AH battery, you charge it with a 2A charger, 100% charge corresponds to about 7 hrs.
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
Oh right, thanks for reminding me Woosh, this newbie was forgetting about Voltage Sag. So the Phylion battery is sagging from 33.3v at rest to the 31v LVC of the controller under say 7A load, giving 4.4ohms Internal Resistance at 214Watts power. It was shutting down 3 times during yesterdays runs.
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
Anybody know how to date a Phylion battery pls? Do they have a date stamp anywhere outside or inside? Or can the date be deduced from the serial number?
Likewise, any ideas on if a Woosh bike frame serial number has the date of manufacture in it?
Already got the controller date 06 2014
Cheers
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
the battery date is usually on the label's serial number. If you post a picture, I may be able to decipher it for you.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Oh right, thanks for reminding me Woosh, this newbie was forgetting about Voltage Sag. So the Phylion battery is sagging from 33.3v at rest to the 31v LVC of the controller under say 7A load, giving 4.4ohms Internal Resistance at 214Watts power. It was shutting down 3 times during yesterdays runs.
The internal resistance is much less than 4.4 Ohms, it is about 0.3 Ohm to 0.7 Ohm for that battery, depending on how intense it was used at the time, the reason being that the electrodes are more clogged when you use the battery a lot and recovers to normal when it is resting.
The controller is set for 15A, when the power kicks in, you have a ramp up of current, which can be close to 15A, then decay until it settle at say 5A, depending on your speed and assist level. The typical voltage sag is about 1.5V for 5A, typical current draw for 13-15mph.
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
The internal resistance is much less than 4.4 Ohms, it is about 0.3 Ohm to 0.7 Ohm for that battery, depending on how intense it was used at the time, the reason being that the electrodes are more clogged when you use the battery a lot and recovers to normal when it is resting.
The controller is set for 15A, when the power kicks in, you have a ramp up of current, which can be close to 15A, then decay until it settle at say 5A, depending on your speed and assist level. The typical voltage sag is about 1.5V for 5A, typical current draw for 13-15mph.
Controller label says 7A rated load and 14A max, so with an LVC of 31v, and as it cuts out under load I kept it simple and put those figures into Ohms law. 14A would of course give a much higher internal resistance figure. (all assuming one ignores the controller and motor in the circuit)
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
the formula is V = R * I
Voltage sag = R battery resistance * I controller current
in average riding, R =0.3 Ohm, I =5A, V = 1.5V

if your battery is tired, V can be 2V or even 2.5V
 
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MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
Well the serial number of the XH370-13J battery is AEJHJB1AH02H1529, as far as I can make it out behind the chainwheel (not being able to slide it out coz its stuck :-().
Afaik in Ohms law, the resistance R, is given by dividing the Voltage V, by the Current I.
So, in the case of my batt, 31V LVC (coz it is cutting out) divided by 5A (given as 'average running' current) gives 6.2Ω internal resistance, and volts are sagging from 33.3V to 31V = 2.3V sag.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Hi Mike,

Re battery label: I'll ask Andy tomorrow.
Re Ohm's law: 31 Volts went to the controller and motor.
the voltage sag, 2.3V divided by 5A = 0.56 Ohm.
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
Of course the resistance calculated is really of the whole system, Batt, Controlr, & Motor. Taking the dynamic impedance of an inductor like a motor, and any capacitance, into consideration is way beyond my pay grade! :)
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
20170702_170614.jpg 20170721_192752.jpg
Just to bump the thread while Andy thinks about my queries.
Parts: Any new 790, brake switch, ebike tyre, pls?
Stuck Battery: The lock bolt retracts fully (see pic) and i tried prying slide gently, but still batt only moves a bit, like its screwd or bolted down loosely. How was it put on the bike, as batteries are shipped separate to bike, yes?
Provenance: How did an 06-2014 (see pic "ex-factory date") controller get on a Nov 2015 bike? Has the Batt serial number supplied revealed its date? Pic shows date.
One can't turn back the clock, so it's best to find solutions and move forward, yes?
Cheers
 
Last edited:

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Mike,

Andy replied to you last week, I was talking about your thread when he replied to you. Check your junk mail folder, it may be there.

Provenance: How did an 06-2014 controller get on a Nov 2015 bike? Has the Batt serial number supplied revealed its date?
There was no reason for us to check the controller label. What you think as manufacturing date can be the program ID. The serial number has two parts, a manufacturing date and serial and a software program ID which may contain the first batch date separated by the initials of the factory,

Stuck Battery: The lock bolt retracts fully and i tried prying slide gently, but still batt only moves a bit, like its screwd or bolted down loosely. How was it put on the bike, as batteries are shipped separate to bike, yes?
As I said, the base of the battery is glued to the controller box by air borne pollutant. You rock it left/right, when it starts to separate, use a flat blade screwdriver to gently prise the battery base off the controller box.

When I go to the office Monday, I'll PM andy's mail to you.
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
Had a thought, could the battery contacts have welded themselves to the housing pad contacts from arcing when it hops on road bumps. And that's whats holding the battery down while still allowing it to move up & down, side to side and front to back a millimetre or so. When it moves up to the limit of the contacts springs, it stops.
Still can't force it while the bike works, as doing so may break the pad, and what are the chances of getting one of those?!o_O
Still if a new display cures the cutting out, new levers cut power when braking, and the corroded controller doesn't pack up, then its all been very educational.
Cure the leaks, secure the battery, waterproof the components, pad the frame... ;)
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,611
7,558
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Had a thought, could the battery contacts have welded themselves to the housing pad contacts from arcing when it hops on road bumps. And that's whats holding the battery down while still allowing it to move up & down, side to side and front to back a millimetre or so. When it moves up to the limit of the contacts springs, it stops.
It's possible. We keep spares for both battery and connectors on the controller side in case they need replacing.
 

MikelBikel

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
163
79
Ireland
20160121_Axle_Cable_Entry.jpg Woosh recently suggested filling the end of the motor axle with grease and covering it with Teflon tape, i must try that for waterproofing the hub connection.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
7,347
2,776
56
West Sx RH
View attachment 20949 Woosh recently suggested filling the end of the motor axle with grease and covering it with Teflon tape, i must try that for waterproofing the hub connection.
If the axle was fitted correctly and rotated 180 degrees you won't have to faff with quack remedies :rolleyes:.
I have recently opened and dismantled my Bafang cst and not a sign of any moisture after 2900 miles, just a slighty worn bearing. The motor cable exits south with just the dust cap over the axle end.
 

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