Would 50V / 40A be too much for a Xofo / Bafang CST?

Arbol

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I continue thinking about possible configurations for my e-bike. Due to several "real world" constraints, I am considering going "big" anyway (since having small packages in the end have almost the same constraints, for my personal situation, as big ones).

One possibility is going towards a 50V (14s) / 40A configuration, ie 2kW.

The reasons for this configuration are as follows:

- 100 pieces of good batteries are cheap (I have been quoted $2.07 for a Samsung 22P). This would allow a 14s7p configuration (98 cells plus 2 spare in case there are bad cells)
- A good 14s 40A BMS is available: http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=42&product_id=75 and then there are the bestech BMS, too
- em3ev provides good controllers, such as the 12 fet 40A one http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=38&product_id=81

Note: 7p of 2.2Ah is about 15.4Ah. Samsung 22P are quoted to give 10A. 7p would theoretically give a max of 70A. I guess assuming a max in the real world of 40A (slightly above 50% of the theoretical maximum) is not irrational

This configuration would require building a tailor-made enclosure. I believe I have found technicians who can do that, anchoring that box to the holes for the water bottle. A box there has a good center of gravity, and the solution can be replicated for any bike, assuming there are holes for the water bottle. The controller could also be put inside the box, making the whole structure safer.

The question is if 2kW is too much. There is little information about max power for Xofo / Bafang CST motors. There is a loose assertion that gears "go" at around 2kW. There is also an assertion that the max power for these motors should be 1.5kW to 2kW. d8veh asserted he briefly tried a Xofo with almost 70V and about 30A (slightly above 2kW) and nothing went wrong, apparently.

I would not be using 2kW constantly. In fact, I believe I would be using much, much less power, say 200W. But maybe some day I would need strong power (on a hurry going home?). And surprisingly, powerful configurations are almost as cheap as 250w ones.

What do you think?
 
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trex

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I haven't tried this kind of power myself, but I think the clutch in geared motors, including crank drives, won't take more than 700W for long.
It should be a direct drive motor for power beyond 700-800W. You then have to think about weight distribution.
 
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Arbol

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There are other possibilities. For example, a 48V 25A controller:

http://www.xofomotor.com/display.asp?id=769

Or a 48V 20A one:

http://www.xofomotor.com/display.asp?id=770

And then having a 14s7p configuration with say the Samsung 26F, which are quite cheap:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=120&a=2

From the link above, one can see the 26F, despite being marketed at 5A, they are 2A / 3A cells. But if one has a 20A/25A controller, a 7p fits perfectly there. Also a 12s8p would be possible, then.

It is funny, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to buy 100 pieces of these 18650 cells and make a big configuration.
 

trex

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d8veh rides a XOFO CST, he is the authority here. I got the power graph of the XOFO CST some time ago, it maxes out around 750W at 37V if I remembered correctly. If you run it at 48V, then the max power will be around 1000W. Your battery needs to be capable of 21A at 48V. With 2600mAH cells, you'll need 13S4P or 13S5P and a 30A BMS. I'd go for 13S3P with 2900mAH cells in a standard flat bottle, a compromise on price/weight/power.
Samsung 2900mAH are cheap, Panasonic 3400mAH cells are still very expensive.
 
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Arbol

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The 29E are double the price as the 26F, and in fact, they are apparently only slightly above 2.6Ah:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=353

While the 26F are closer to specs:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=120&a=2

The flat bottle is quite appealing, since it is quite beatiful. But the problem is there is apparently no space for a controller inside. Also, these boxes are not very safe, since they are secured to the frame only through a lock, and standard locks are not safe at all. And they do not have handles to anchor them to the bike through a chain or an Abus Bordo.

BTW, I have found what I believe is the producer of these "beatiful" flat boxes:

http://www.ksreention.com/product/hj-battery-box/

Two interesting aspects:

- The HJ model:

http://www.ksreention.com/product/hj-battery-box/130503183716.htm

is apparently the cheap one among the flat boxes. But it is very appealing, since apart from being very stealthy, it has a handle, so possibly a chain could be passed through.

- The QT and LT models have apparently a slot to add a small controller, called mini Lishui F.O.C. controller. This controller is sold through Alibaba:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lishui-electric-bike-controller-mini_1555698672.html

I do not know how good it is, but definitely if this controller were decent, a flat box would become immediately more interesting. The only problem would be security, maybe wrapping a chain through it (as well as a rigid external body) would work.
 

cwah

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I'm putting 72V35A on my bpm and it clearly stresses the gears on start point.

It's ok passed the start point and works fine.
 
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trex

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flat bottles: yes, I agree, these HJ boxes look very sleek.
I have the standard round bottle, I am not looking for anything else at present but next time, will probably go for something similar.
The LS-mini controller has only 6 FETs, not specified for 48V. I think the bigger XOFO controller is already waterproofed and having 9 FETs, hugely better.
 
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Arbol

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I'm putting 72V35A on my bpm and it clearly stresses the gears on start point.

It's ok passed the start point and works fine.
Wow, 72V. May I ask which controller are you using?
 

Arbol

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flat bottles: yes, I agree, these HJ boxes look very sleek.
I have the standard round bottle, I am not looking for anything else at present but next time, will probably go for something similar.
The LS-mini controller has only 6 FETs, not specified for 48V. I think the bigger XOFO controller is already waterproofed and having 9 FETs, hugely better.
In fact, I am not so sure the mini controller is not specified for 48V. Look at:

http://b-t-n.en.alibaba.com/product/1555698672-214955495/Lishui_electric_bike_controller_mini.html

There are 24, 36 and 48V models. But yes, I agree that if I used such a controller, the configuration would be less powerful than described at the first post. But this makes sense, since this controller would be used with flat boxes, which effectively are less powerful anyway.
 
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Those Samsung cells are good for 2C. I think 10 amps (5C) is too much.

You need to try a bike with 40 amps to see if you like it. I don't believe that you would for every day transport. You need wide sticky tyres to avoid accidents.

If you want a powerful kit, you can get the whole thing from Em3ev - either a geared MAC or a DD of some sort. The 500CSTs are good for 30 amps at 48v, after that there's a risk. I've run mine at 64v (actual) and 30 amps, but only for fun over short distances. I don't know how long it would last like that. It doesn't feel stressed.

Cwah, Are you running your BPM sensorless.
 
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cwah

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I'm running my BPM sensored. I tried to run it sensorless too and it also stresses the gears.

I can clearly hear the gears slipping if I put full power on start. That's really annoying that's why I'm thinking of maybe getting a DD at 10KW