Vennwood

Some 8 months on and I thought I would update my thoughts on the Haibike. Well I'm pleased to say all is still well and after a little over 1500 miles nothing has fallen off. The range is fairly constant at between 40 and 50 miles between charges (depending on how many hills I climb) I have noticed that the battery looses 2 of its 10 bars fairly quickly but then stays there. Don't know if this will develop into an issue or maybe more of the way I operate. I usually charge up the battery soon after a ride then it gets left for up to 3 or 4 weeks before the next outing ( I'm a softy and don't set out in the rain ) so maybe I should charge up the day before I use it. Over the winter months I have used the lights a fair bit and have to say I'm impressed with the spread and power of the beam. I have on occasion ventured up and down steeper hills than I would have down without power and this has identified a small failing in descending hills - the front fork travel is limited so perhaps the Treking RC is not for "pure mounting biking" Secondly the tyres tend to slide a bit on rough muddy surfaces so maybe a wider tyre with a bit more grip is needed. Other than those comments the bike soldiers on faultlessly. No regrets.

I must be getting old as I always thought that the best way to build up a business was to offer good service through a friendly and helpful manner. Certainly the comments from dealers or friends of dealers on this site have not endeared me to or persuaded me to buy from any of them. That said thankfully there are hundreds of dealers here in the UK that offer a great service and very helpful even when the bike hasn't been purchased from them. Oats - I'm lost here but I guess you never buy items from a supermarket

Yes I've noticed recently there are good deals to be had at home but at the time I was looking to buy there was utter derision at the thought with the best offer was to throw in a bell or something. I find it very amusing that one sentence in a review should cause so many comments when the review is about the bike and MY PERSONAL findings and not a crusade to persuade everyone to buy from Germany.. I suspect the discounts are now being offered are to "clear out 2015 stock" in preparation for the new models coming out as the German dealers are offering up to 50% in some cases. By the way the bike is doing really well and I'm loving every minute of it.

Hi EddiePJ The Haibike just gets better every day. I try and get out two or three times a week and loving every minute. Done around 300 miles so far and touch wood the only problem has been a loose bolt on the seat. I haven't experienced any undue noise from the Yamaha when under load as mentioned by some, in fact it seems quieter than ever. I've even got used to the pointy seat. I'll add more to the review after 500 miles and try and give proper review.

Totally agree Michael - its the strength of the pound that makes the difference and in my case brought a model that was out of my price range back into contention. I guess also many dealers both here in UK as well as Germany are starting to discount to clear stocks in preparation for the 2016 model year.

I agree that was an issue for me but managed to get around it using Bing and Google translate. If you ring them though some of the staff do speak English. Once I found what I wanted I emailed them and they usually replied within an hour or so.

Don't understand you John. My figures above are DIRECTLY from each web site and the exchange rates are there for all to see. The bike you quoted earlier doesn't have a price on it as its out of stock so I don't see how you can make any comparison on that model at that site. I guess if you can afford a difference of between £700 and £950 then good for you. I wish I could afford to dismiss that amount.

I don't want to get into yet another discussion over where to buy Each to their own I did my deal and that is nothing special others can do their own deal. However if you look at their web site you will see the Trekking RC is listed at €2339 now when I went to school with an exchange rate of €1.40 to the £ that comes to £1670 plus €35 delivery against ebike shop price of £2399 that's a saving of £700 and that is without ANY discount

www.badbikes-online.de - they had a promotion on last month celebrating 10 years in the business - not sure if its still on but you can ask. Great people to deal with but you may have to use Google translate when emailing Maik. If calling ask for Thomas as he speaks good English

The Haibike arrived on 6th July and I'm extremely pleased with it. The Yamaha crank drive is wonderful. Loads of torque at the start and acceleration takes you by surprise. It climbs hills effortlessly so the tendency is to forget to change gear. The ride is a bit different from my old MTB (a Viper FX2.0 with full suspension) maybe because it is a larger frame with larger wheels and cross tyres however after a mile or two I soon got used to it. The saddle though will have to go. I changed the original Viper saddle as I couldn't get used to the pointy thin seat that seems to be the norm on all bikes these days. I'm built for comfort so a change on the Haibike is due. The gears are a dream - very precise and positive with very little drama. The Trekking has a 20 gear set up - 10 at the rear and 2 up front. When riding there is little need to change at all as the Yamaha has plenty of power to cope with all but the steepest of hills. The display does indicate that when riding uphill without changing down the power used is much higher so I guess that would translate into fewer miles per battery charge not to mention wear and tear. It is taking a bit of getting used to having to remember to change gear to save the battery. My first outing was a relatively flat 20 mile ride at an average speed of 10.5mph. (that was an increase of 4.5mph achieved over the same route on the Viper) from roughly the same effort on my part. The battery level showed a drop of 3 bars out or 10 and the remaining distance available showed an encouraging 30 miles left. If I can get 40 miles between charges I will be well pleased. I had thought about getting a speed dongle but can't see the need so I will shelve that thought for now. Like the Giant this bike is very easy to ride without power and at around 20kgs it doesn't feel too heavy. In fact on my second outing a turned off the power to try it out, got distracted and only realised some 30 mins later that I hadn't switched it back on. Pros: 1. Extremely well made when compared to other makes I looked at. 2. Yamaha motor appears much more powerful that the Bosch (torque wise) 3. Walking mode is a bonus and allows me to ride without pedalling up to 6kph 4. Built in lighting very effective 5. Great brakes - hydraulic and positive 6. Battery recharges very quickly Cons: 1. Saddle is too narrow for my rear end 2. Tyres not a forgiving as wider MTB tyres 3. Very “nickable” so need to watch carefully when parked 4. LCD screen while providing lots of info doesn't look as durable as the Bosch unit Overall I'm over the moon with the Haibike and so far very impressed and I like the Haibike style. I would recommend this to anyone looking for a general use bike. Buying from Germany - absolutely – I got a cracking deal and saved a fortune and the retailer so far has been very good. All documentation is in English. The manufacturer so far has been responsive when I asked questions. Only downside may happen if I get any warranty problems.

It has been a few years since our last foray into electric bikes and to be fair a lot has happened since then. New companies have entered the market and battery technology has come along in leaps and bounds. We have been using our standard bikes more and more over the years however age and failing health is taking its toll and even the slightest hill looks like Mount Everest. So we have decided to research this mode of transport again (but will be much more diligent than last time out). After asking lots of questions and getting bogged down with some controversial answers, not to mention ruffling a few feathers along the way we finally managed to create a shortlist of possible bikes. Before I go into the bikes themselves I should lay out our rationale for choosing these particular types of bikes and hope this will assist other potential e-bikers in helping them make up their mind on what/which to go for. First of all we considered the type of riding we do and our riding location(s), We don't leap off up mountain trails but mainly poodle along cycle tracks, tow paths or urban trips to town shopping so a full suspension mountain bike would not be required. Then I looked at weight/age and fitness levels to assess the position/type of power/torque needed. Even though we ride the same routes it was obvious from the start that we both needed different bikes as our weights are not the same.(not even close) We made note of reliability and problems mentioned by users on this and various other Bike forums in general then arrived at a rather long “shortlist” Sadly I then had to sort the bikes out by price range and inevitably cross off all the ones we liked as they were too expensive and way above our budget. This left us with a very shortlist of two or three which I attempted to drill down on in detail. Unfortunately this led to an adjustment in both budget and expectations as the bike(s) didn't have everything we wanted for our price point. So back to the drawing board. There are literally hundreds of e-Bikes around – each manufacturer favouring front, centre or rear motor driven and as expected everyone has their own preference. I decided, based on reviews and comments on the Pedelecs forum, that a centre crank drive motor was the one for me as they delivered higher torque, however my wife being much lighter a hub motor would be suitable. This made one bike a lot easier to buy as their are far more hub models than crank models. So bike weight, range and gears helped to narrow down the list even further. We steered clear of the cheapest brands having been "burnt before" and in my opinion they looked cheap in comparison to the quality brands and decided that better quality secondhand bikes would suffice for our needs. The Nexus hub gear system appealed as it looked easier to operate and could prove more reliable than the derailer type so would suit my wife better. This pretty much sorted one bike out. As I mentioned earlier batteries have come a long way and output, charging cycles even size as well as technology as made impressive improvements over recent years. At the end of the day owners are really only interested in one thing - range. How far can I go on a single charge of the battery. It gives the manufacturers a real headache as there are too many variables - rider weight, riding style (fast or slow), type of terrain (how many hills) which power setting do you use etc. The likes of Giant don't give a range for these reasons. My rule of thumb answer having read comments on here and elsewhere is to half the claimed range and you won't be far off. Next I had to decide on the make of motor – there are again many different manufacturers – mainly split into Chinese, European (Bosch Impulse), Japanese (Yamaha or Panasonic). Bosch complicate things even more by producing three types of crank drive – Active, Performance or Speed. I decided in my case that I preferred either Bosch or Yamaha as they appeared more integrated than many of the Chinese models. Now I'm really starting to narrow down the choice. I preferred the Bosch set up as it looked more professionally integrated however the torque on the Bosch Active appeared a little low on power. I therefore eliminated all Bosch Active line motors. The Bosch Performance and Yamaha motors have very similar output but again not straight forward. The Bosch has more flexibility, is fitted by over 50 manufacturers and can be updated by the dealer and has a better LCD display. On the downside it is considerably more expensive. Yamaha is less flexible, the display looks more flimsy, can't be updated and only fitted by one or two manufacturers in Europe but is cheaper. Eventually I ended up with three or four bikes that suited, so that left me with the task of deciding which one and where I ran into most trouble with my fellow bikers on here. I was surprised to discover how limited bike warranties are in comparison with say a motor car warranty. Also it seems that Bike dealers look after their own customers very well but still could charge labour on any warranty work. Non customers would certainly have trouble with any warranty work and would have to take their place behind customers. It was not clear on whether or not they would get a warranty service. This played a large part of my deliberations as it was clear that any problems would have to be paid for one way or another. Now the sensible thing to do would be to test ride each one to make sure all your deliberations were valid and you feel comfortable riding it. Now for me that wasn't too practical as all the ones I had shortlisted were either not in stock or located some 100+ miles away. I tried all the ones I thought would be close in ride and style and that would have to do for now. In the end I decided on the Haibike Trekking RC with Yamaha motor as it was significantly less expensive than the Bosch Performance offerings yet had all the “extras” such as lights, mudguards and a stand that I wanted. The Yamaha on paper has the most torque and several owners commented that the zero cadence came in instantly. Next was where to buy them. Again I came under the hammer from fellow Pedelec members who shunned the likes of eBay or purchasing from European dealers in favour of "paying full price or close to full price" from local dealers and secure good customer service, so got to thinking that maybe they are right and I would have to up my price budget again. Then I thought hang on a minute.... On these dealer admissions I may have to pay labour on any possible repair work. I don't live near to any of these dealers anyway so any work would incur significant travelling costs In general buying from Germany is considerably cheaper than UK as bikes are the same price numerically however with the current £ v € exchange of around €1.40 - there is a significant difference off the bat. Then I discovered that German retailers are open to "negotiation" and discounts of up to 20% can be had. So I purchased a secondhand Giant Freedom Twist CS Lite locally and a Haibike Trekking RC from a German dealer and saved a small fortune. Now in my book I can get a whole heap of work done for the money we saved and as a retired aircraft engineer I may be able to do some maintenance work myself. If we are really lucky we may not have any breakdowns and can use the savings on meals out or buy things for the grand children. How are we working out some weeks after our purchase. Well good and bad. First the bad. The Haibike was packed and sent from Germany however between the carriers (one German and one UK) the package was damaged so badly that the carriers held it at the UK warehouse for "investigation" and finally sent back to Germany. This could have happened had I purchased from a UK dealer so I can't blame the dealer if the carrier drops the package. It is now scheduled to be delivered in early July. See below for part 2 The Giant on the other hand is an absolute cracker. The quality is superb and it shows. The Nexus gears are great, so easy to change whether peddling or not. Without doubt we made the right choice regarding pedalec or hand throttle. Its just great - the more you pedal the more assistance you get. We haven't needed to use the "turbo mode" as the assistance given on "normal mode" is just fine – even eco mode is fine on the flat. It is a fairly heavy machine at close to 25kgs but we haven't had to carry it yet. The battery is proving extremely good. Given that we reckon it is about 5 years old so far it is holding its charge well. The control unit displays 5 LED's to show full to empty, we can travel 16 miles before one LED goes out so on that basis I reckon we should get at least 30 miles between charges. The panniers are proving very useful for holding wet weather gear (and a substantial padlock and chain) The stand is very solid and holds the bike well. Very pleased so far. Mudguards and lights are a bonus even though they are not linked into the main battery. Pros: Very good quality We expected to have to replace the battery within the first 6 months however the battery is behaving very good. Nexus gears are far superior as far as my wife is concerned (and me too) Panniers a real bonus Good saddle Very easy to ride without power (a bonus as we don't know how good the battery is) Cons: We have changed the peddles as the Giant ones were prone to slipping on ordinary shoes At almost 25kgs it is heavy to lift on and off the bike rack.

Absolutely not true - I'm not focused on anything just trying to learn from past mistakes and so far not impressed with your "proper e-bike dealer" Perhaps its time to move on as its starting to appear to be a "dealers site"

If they all go back to Bosch for repair - does it really matter if the BMW dealer has the experience or not. In some cases sales and service dept of bike dealers are not always up to speed. However again the discussion centres around the ability or not on BMW being able to service these bikes or whether or not the design is up to scratch when what really would be of help is does anyone have any experience on riding them? I'm willing to accept the reputation of BMW to sort it out IF it goes wrong so really I'm more interested in rider experiences out on the road.

BMW e-bikes are centered around the London Park Lane dealership who appear to act as the importer I guess. Its true that not every dealer stocks them but I found several that do - Bournemouth for example have them in stock as did the JKC dealership. I contacted my local dealer who didn't have one in stock but could get one within 24 hours. Just as a point my dealer didn't have an X5 or the new 4 series coupe either so not actually having stock shouldn't be a complete downer. I have found similar experiences with some ebike dealers - no stock but can usually get fairly quickly. Having trained mechanics isn't really a problem for me. If they agree to fix it at their expense and the guy isn't too familiar with say the Bosch motor then they are more likely to replace the whole part (just like they do with their cars these days) If they get it wrong then they have to fix it again The warranty is the same as the car warranty according to the BMW Park Lane service manager but limited to 2 yrs parts and battery and 5 years frame

Crikey this is a trip down memory lane - its all coming flooding back