Mdoodles

As a matter of fact, I did not purchase the Haibike in the end as it was out of stock. I went instead down the kit route (48V TSDZ2 from woosh which I fitted on my existing bike, a GIant 26 incher MTB) and very happy with it (and the 1k pounds I saved with that forced choice). I am commuting with it and can do a return journey (14 miles each way) on a single charge and the maximum assist level. I also can do 3 legs (but only just). I found that tires properly pumped up do help *a lot* with the range.

Mdoodles - not looked at middrive units - is it easy to fit - need any special tools - I can only find 500W models, are these legal in the uk.? It is relatively easy to fit (more on this below) and yes you will need specialised tools: - to remove the cranks: a crank extractor as well and a cartridge bottom bracket tool. This is the minimum. To install the motor itself there is a tool that comes with the motor then it's bog-standard allen keys. Then there's this, possibly: - To install the battery you might need a rivnut kit. The bottle holder nuts might not be in the right place in your frame so you will need to put extra holes and rivnuts (note an alloy frame will be easier than a steel one in that respect). Then there's this: - I had to change the chain and the cassette because both were in a pretty dire state so I had to get chain removal tools and a cassette removal tool too. (NB: I had also to change the derailleur and the cable). Even if your cassette and chain are OK, you will need that eventually. Apparently crank drives go through these items quite quickly (I am carrying a spare chain at all time in case it breaks), especially if in daily use I expect. You won't need that if you use a hub drive. Re easiness of fitting: My only bicycle repair skill before this was to repair a puncture. Now I can do all of the above plus index gear shift, change a fork (I have not done that yet, but I just checked I could take it out, will put a suspension fork in the summer maybe), etc. Basically, I don't expect to need a bike mechanic ever again for me and my family. It might sound daunting but you are not on your own: there's plenty of resources online on how to carry out these jobs (youtube, mainly). Note I have a completely unrelated trade (data analysis). Cost: The kit cost me 660 (it was the non-throttled version) but the whole thing came down to 1.25K which breaks down into: - 1k for the motor and a replacement push bike (+equipment) plus various equipment eg mudguards, pannier etc - Aforementioned tools, which I will reuse anyway: 150£ - Aforementioned repairs/replacement parts, which I would have had to carry out anyway at some point: 100£. I hope to recoup that within 1-2 years through saved train fares/petrol and car depletion. I went through woosh because i wanted a UK based vendor in case of problems (there weren't any btw). Legality: Re the power 500W is illegal but it is a bit of a grey zone since even though my own motor (and all other legal ones) is rated 250w it can peak at higher power. I think 250w is an upper limit on the average power delivered (which raises my data analysis eyebrows). There are -I believe- two physical versions of the TSDZ2: 48V (the one I have) and 36V, the power rating depends on how much the controller lets electricity reach the motor. The other legal (and less ambiguous) imperative is the upper assist speed limit (15.5 mph). Once you reach this speed, the assist cuts out and you *do* notice (there is an internal clutch and I suspect it to stay engaged above the speed limit). This is an annoying not-so-sweet zone, since it's a speed I can normally easily attain on the flat. I basically always pedal just below that limit and anytime I do surpass it is while freewheeling downhill. It is relatively easy to up the limit via the controller and I did try for a couple of legs but then reverted to the legal setting because: i) The time gain was not that great - I decreed my employer could afford an extra 10 minutes of absence ii) it hit my range, the battery was noticeably emptier iii) It voids the 1 year warranty iv) legality/liability in case of accident. Crank vs Hub drive: Crank are the only types of bikes I tried and I liked them. I would advise you do the same (the trying, the liking is up to you). The closer the TSDZ2 was the bosch ALP system, which has a great acceleration (as opposed to the yamaha one which is less 'in your face' ). I fact I nearly bought a haibike/yamaha but it was out of stock. I read on forums such as this one that mid drives have better range and also are better at steep hill. I don't know about 'better' but it is certainly good enough: I have a >10% section on my commute and I don't break a sweat on it. Also, my particular donor had hydraulic disc brakes and I struggled to find hub drives which could accommodate that (this is also the reason I chose the non-throttled version). Hub drives, I heard, are less natural for keen cyclists. Again: do go and try different systems. HTH

For what it's worth, I have a commute similar to yours: 14 miles with a total elevation of 400ft for a single leg, mostly on tarmac. I converted my 26'' hybrid with the Woosh (non-throttled) TSDZ2 kit. I can do 3 legs of that commute on a single charge and the maximal assist level throughout, although I am currently doing two: recharging at work so that the battery is at its freshest on the return leg. I am 'only' 14 st and live on Scotland so crap weather is a given. So you are 50% bigger than me and have slightly more elevation to contend with so with luck/lower assist levels you might do 2x15 miles. I don't see 15 miles being a problem tbh. The kit is a crank drive with a torque sensor so that, in contrast to cadence base sensor you have to provide some of the effort when it is needed (33% of it I believe) and you might shed some of the pounds too...

Cool thanks for that, I pulled the trigger (as in: deciding on the purchase) and will report back. Thanks all for your replies. M.

Hey thanks, I am (sort of) aware of the issue with yamaha and third party replacement problem by lurking around here which is why I was keen to get the range right. M.

Benjahmin, thanks for the heads up. Will bear that in mind as the return leg is against the prevailing winds which can quite strong around here (West Fife - Edinburgh - West Fife). M.

Georgehenry, yes I could, but would rather avoid that... carrying the charger around.

Thanks both of you, that sounds hopeful, to say the least. M.

Hi everyone, I have been trying several ebikes last Friday. That is in the view of commuting to work daily. It is a longish one, 15 miles each way with roughly 5-600 feet up and down. By some margin, the one with the Yamaha motor (pw-se) is the bike I preferred because of the double front derailleur, which allows to go above the assisted speed of 15.5mph without having to put in a crazy cadence. That was in contrast to the bosh based bikes: a Cube with an active line plus and a Scott with the cx motor. The latter is impressive in acceleration so that one is pretty fast up to the 15-16 mph... to be stuck there because the motor drag kicks in perceptibly. It is less of a problem with the ALP based cube, but because of the relatively small front derailleur there is also a ceiling of sorts, especially on downhills. So in a Bosh-only world my preference would clearly be towards an ALP bike. I also know that I would not have range issues, that from lurking in various threads here Before I pull the trigger -it is two grand after all- I would like to know if any of you has had any range issues with the bike I am coveting, a Haybike sduro trekking 6.0, it has the Yamaha pw-se motor and a 500wh battery. I do know about the fact that it hinges a lot on how it is used and how much the motor is put to work. It is more major impediments or testimonies to that effect that I am looking for as in never being able to pass the 25mile mark even on super-eco mode.. Again, it would be 30 miles with 1000 feet in elevation. I am reasonably fit for my age (early 50s) and weigh 90 kg. Hope this makes some sense M.