vassilis

Hi everyone and many thanks to all of you for your support and comments. I had not written anything on this forum for a while, as I was communicating with Andy of EBS to try and reach a solution to this. I can now confirm that this matter has been sorted out as we've agreed to a mutually acceptable settlement with Andy. I will post my comments on the bike on a separate thread. Already Wisper has indicated that it will provide me with an exchange front-brake caliper as the front brake is currently not really useful.

There is also the protection offered by paypal.

Eddieo, you are absolutely right here. Unfortunately distance is a drawback here. I really cannot trust EBS at all. Despite all the the other things, what conclusion can one make for not receiving an invoice for a purchased item. It is absolutely absurd. David suggested we sort things out between us, but I don't even get any reply to my emails. As you know, sh** happens! As far as the battery is concerned, I will have it checked at the next charge. Wisper already confirmed the battery is covered under their warranty, so if there are any problems with it I will send it back in exchange for a new one. At 14 stones, it is probably unreasonable to have only the red light left after 15 miles regardless of how accurate the indicator is. Also, as I do not know what use of the battery has been made so far, I am also not sure whether a I should have it fully conditioned or not.

OK. Then you should refund £1,449.00 - £1,274.00 = £175 + £19,95 (cost of the Sigma computer I wouldn't purchase had you provided the original computer). TOTAL = £194,95 I am not even calculating the depreciation of the bicycle due to: A. Being an expo bike B. A newer model being available

All that is is very nice Andy. Do not get angry. Going over your posts is a facility provided by this forum. It is not illegal like misrepresentation. (Still waiting for that invoice, toolkit and LED light though. Any hint as to what happened to these?). Personal account or not, you were the only person I exchanged emails with all the time, so for me YOU represent Electric Bike Shed. After all aren't you the owner of Electric Bike Shed? If I am Sherlock Holmes than you are Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. As for the rest of your post (I know I am going off topic again), I do not intend to make a point, but you probably got too many design tips from Oxygen's website as the following paragraph is found in the About Us section of Electric Bike Shed's website: "At Oxygen we aim to promote the healthy lifestyle and most effective form of transport. We promote electric bicycles not only as form of pleasure but also as fastest and the most cost effective transport solution. We believe in bikes and their power which could significantly reduce human carbon footprint." Electric Bike Shed: About us About us: Oxygen Bicycles P.S. ECO Transport Solutions Ltd. (EBS) was incorporated on 18/06/2008 Your review of Oxygen was on 28/3/2009.

Thanks David. As I said many times, I appreciate your assistance in this. You are keeping the client service standards quite high for other manufacturers. I only requested the price in order to establish the difference in the RRP of the two models at the time EBS got hold of this bike. I assume that EBS did not buy it at the same price they bought the 2009 models, I will have to wait therefore your conversation with Andy. Obviously my (monetary) dispute with EBS has nothing to do with Wisper. EBS closing down probably gives a good indication for their entire attitude in this case though. I hope they will send me the invoice and parts I am expecting before shutting down. P.S. Am I the only to believe EBS and Oxygen are somehow connected? Not only the layout and wording of their websites is the same, the "Electric Bikes" link on the Oxygen website leads directly to the EBS website. Interesting though Andy (of EBS), despite defaming Oxygen bikes to make his point against me, has posted a triumphant review of the Oxygen Emate XC (Wisper clone) (http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bike-reviews/3839-oxygen-emate-xc-bike-review.html), like if he is an independent reviewer. He is even suggesting that the Oxygen is a better bike than the Heinzmann Estelle. How would you call this indirect advertisement? I can think of some words, but these are probably inappropriate for this forum.

I can pm you Mussels. Just thought that after the initial round of posts there is no room for legal details and disputes in a cycling forum.

Thanks David for this. I appreciate your help and support. Also Blew It for making the distinction between 07' and 08' models as clear as possible and all of you for your comments. Since I will be taking this case further as much as I can, I would appreciate if David could provide the following information: - When was the bike actually sold to EBS? - What was the price difference of the bike at that time compared to the 2009 model? I have registered the bike at Wisper's website for warranty purposes. The registration is not however complete as I do not know the battery reg. no. Is this OK David? I am afraid the battery is not up to the standards that have been mentioned by other Wisper owner's. I have made a 15-mile ride on pedal assist mode and already the green and orange lights are off at standstill. In the next charge I will try and meter the voltage to see its status (rog_london was probably correct about the status of the battery). Now for the record I would like to answer to Andy from EBS in order to put things in place (I apologize for the length of this message). So, Andy did indeed have some courage to come and write in this forum and some people here even found his excuses reasonable. I will therefore provide a brief synopsis to clear any misunderstandings: It is correct I had initially contacted Oxygen bikes asking whether they would ship to Greece. They did not reply to me but apparently referred me to EBS, who came back and offered a "new and unused" Wisper at a promotional price. I NEVER indicated I had a budget, so all this excuse about offering me a better bike at the budget is simply bull****. Even if that was the case the decision of whether I wanted an older (expo) bike at a reduced price would have to be MINE after having been informed about the exact status of the bike. So I pay the bike (by bank transfer as EBS wanted a 4% surcharge if I paid by credit card or paypal) and as soon as it arrives I start assembling it. After exchanging emails with Andy for some assembling issues, he informs me about the bike being an Expo model and having been purchased on February 2009 (nothing about the fact it was an older model). Also the bike was missing the toolkit and I never received an invoice too. Andy said he would send me these along with a LED front light. I still haven’t received ANYTHING. Later on I found that the 2008 model came with a computer as well which was also not included and I paid a further 19 pounds to EBS for a Sigma computer. After considering the matter for a few days I decided to keep the bike because: - I did not trust EBS to refund the money if I returned the bike back. - EBS would still charge me for the shipping back and forth so a couple of hundred pounds would still be lost. Andy first mentioned the EU distance selling regulations in his post of December 24th in this forum, AFTER I had declared I would keep the bike and after the seven day cooling off period provided by the EU distance selling regulations had elapsed. Given that I never informed EBS about my initial post here, I can only assume that Andy had read it from the very beginning and only chose to write after the seven day deadline had elapsed so that he would not risk the possibility of having to get the bike back. I have to note however that the EU distance selling regulations that Andy emphasizes upon so much is really not applicable here since it covers items that are returned to seller without providing any reason for this; this is why the buyer bears the cost of shipping. Obviously this is not the case here (there are far too many good reasons!!) as I would never pay a penny more to have the bike shipped back to EBS. Here we have a misrepresentation that falls under the Unfair Contract Terms Act and may be even considered as a criminal act (Fraud Act 2006) as EBS clearly tried to fool me here (even the box the bike came with was from a 2009 bike and had of course different frame and battery numbers). I made EBS a FAIR PROPOSAL to refund the difference in RRP between the 2008 and 2009 models and also refund the price of the Sigma computer I purchased with no apparent reason as the bike should have one from the factory. Nevertheless Andy never came back to me and preferred to answer through this forum the way he did. He never also informed me whether he has sent the missing toolkit, the invoice for the bike sold and the LED lights he promised he would send me. Getting a 200-250 pounds refund is not really my goal here. I hate it however when people try to fool others for short term gains and I will be taking this as far as I can with the assistance of various UK Consumer protection organisations and HMRC (Pete you wrote "It is in our interest that as many e bike retailers as possible prosper, therein lies competition to our advantage." This does not make any sense; Can you imagine having as many retailers possible as EBS? Aren't you in favor of quality and customer satisfaction? This is why Wisper stands out from the other ebike producers. If everybody shared your view, the market would be dominated by cheap unbranded ebikes.) EBS has not been honest in the first place and hasn’t made the slightest effort to try and fix things when the mockery became obvious. EBS even tried to put some of the blame to Wisper by indicating that this bike was stored by Wisper for a while, without however explaining why they sold me a 2008 (or even 2007) model as “new and unused” without further information. Also the comparison with Oxygen bikes just to make an unreasonable point is quite poor as they are not only defaming their best selling bike but also the producer that referred me to them. I haven’t really been able to ride the bike due to the holiday season, so the battery issue is still open. I think therefore that Andy should probably clarify a couple of things: How many times has the battery been charged? Initially he said the bike was new and unused (that should cover the battery as well) and then in his post here he said that “The battery has to be in a good condition as never been allowed to go discharge to the low voltage”. So what’s the truth? I think this matter has been exhausted and I will not be bothering this forum any more unless necessary. I will of course inform you about any assistance received by Wisper (David has already mentioned he will provide a cover for the controller box and will check whether the hi lo switch can be fitted; will probably also assist in fixing the front brake issue). In case anybody is interested I attach the entire exchange of emails between EBS and myself. Looking forward to more pleasant posts in the future:) .

Indeed. With the information provided by David, I have now emailed Electric Bike Shed asking for a refund equal to the difference of RRP between the 2009 and the 2007 model (as the bike was sold with an indicative RRP of 1449 pounds), provided also that the battery is in a as-new condition (will have to check voltage metering according to David). Many Christmas to you all.

It is actually a 2007 model. The serial number is WISPER070120 (found it next to the pedals).

The news about the dealership in Athens is fantastic (please email me the contact details when finalized vassilis@kyriakou.org). Besides warranty issues that I hope will not be required, there will be an expert to service it whenever required. Thank you for your assistance, this is one of the reasons I chose a Wisper. The bike is already with my local bike shop to check the front wheel - as I wasn't provided with the original toolkit initially did not have a spanner - the front brake and the chain tension. I would however like to take this as far as possible with the dealer, with your help in providing me the necessary information. You may want to have a chat with them as well. BTW I checked the installation manual which refers to the 2008 model and I was not also provided with the cycle computer and rear light (have already purchased a Sigma computer and Cateye rear light).

I followed Stumpi's advice eventually. I will however look into this as much as I can with Wisper's assistance to establish whether there are more misrepresentations.

Three more pictures as the forum only allows a maximum of four pictures per post. http://i49.tinypic.com/xaw8jb.jpg http://i45.tinypic.com/29x4c9.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/989c34.jpg

Many thanks guys for your assistance in this. Just to sort things out: I am not upset with Wisper at all. After all one of the reasons I chose a Wisper bike was their after sales support. It is just that Douglas did not get proactive and ask me exactly what information he would require in order to assist and then the next day the office closed for Christmas. Anyway I am sure they will help. Now in the essence of the problem, I am copying the email I received from the Wisper dealer, after initially enquiring about an Oxygen bike: "Thank for your enquiry. Currently we have no Oxygen Emates available but we at the same price we could offer you Wisper 905se Sport with rear luggage rack and 36V 14Ah battery. The promotional price is £999 for the bike which normally costs £1449. The bike is new and never been used. The shipping cost to Greece would be £99 via UPS (2-5 working days). For more information about Wisper 905 please see the link: Wisper 905se Sport If you have any more questions please do not hesitate to contact us.[/i]" As you can see the dealer is Electric Bike Shed and yes I was obviously offered a 2009 bike, as the initial price quoted was £1449 and the link to their website shows the 2009 model. The 2008 model was at least £200 less. After receiving the bike and complaining about all this, I received this responce: "The bike you received we have bought in the February 2009. The first stocks of the 2009 models have been available from April 09 and the manual indeed shows the 1 of February 2009 because the production of the 2009 bikes has started in January 09 and I mentioned the first models available in the UK were in April 09. During the year the bike was our Expo bike and not being in use. In terms of performance there is no difference whatsoever to the bike, the battery is the same battery 36V 14Ah and it's just a case that has been changed....." I hope you understand my frustration. I haven't been able to locate the reg. no. on the frame (probably my mistake), the battery itself has no number on it other than the indication 36V 14A Lithium Pack. The box has the following indications, although this may very well be from another bike: Battery no.: 0388 Frame no.: 181306645 PO NO: 8004-35 C/NO: 47 My greatest worry on the bike is the lack of the conical guard keeping the controller box dry and protecting the cables. Right now it seems to me like the controler box will get all wet with 5-minute ride with unknown results and it is also very exposed to all kind of dirt, rocks etc. Also the Hi Lo switch is quite useful. I am posting below some pictures in case David may get something out of this (as Straylight correctly pointed out determining the age of the battery is important as the replacement cost is high). At the end of the day, I will probably keep the bike as the fuss of returning it back and claiming back the money is probably not worth the time (for me at least). http://i47.tinypic.com/n50wp5.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/10xv9dh.jpg http://i45.tinypic.com/warq6u.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/xlj7ld.jpg

Hi everybody, I am a new member of the forum, although I have been reading it for many weeks while searching which e-bike would suit me best. A Wisper dealer in the UK made me an offer to buy a 905 SE Sport (new and unused) at a discounted price (999 pounds plus 99 pounds shipping to Greece). Given the good critics here and the savings of around 400 pounds from the price the bike is originally being advertised, I ordered it. I received it a couple of days ago, only to find out that it was the old model, meaning it does not have a Front connection box, Hi Lo switch, Conical guard and connector, Folding keys, Interchangeable battery, Cable management system in the frame and Riser handle bars. The dealer couldn't but confirm this, stating that this was an expo bike and was purchased by him in February 2009, so this could not be a 2009 model as these arrived in the UK in April 2009. I think you can understand my frustration about finding out that my newly purchased bike is not the latest (and improved model). I am still considering my options here, especially since returning the bike would cost me an additional 100 pounds. I have also written to Wisper bikes about this, they did not seem to care too much though. Douglas responded to me, only to say that he needs more details (?) and that if I fill in the warranty registration form online I will not have any problem with spare parts in the future. I responded by asking what more details he could possibly want to help me out; two days later he has not written back (although I reckon this to be a serious issue for Wisper's reputation) and found out today that the office is closed until January 4th. That's it then. Was tricked by a dealer (he only offered to send me a LED front light along with the missing toolkit), no help whatsoever from the manufacturer (Wisper) and need to decide what to do. Your help is therefore invaluable for me. Especially those of you owning the old model (like me). Do you consider the changes effected in the 2009 model critical so that it is best to return the bike back (under the Distance Selling Regulations) and get the latest one or not (in which case I should be happy for getting such a big discount)?