qeeeme

if i like to have a pedelec which i will use sometime as a bicycle (pedelec off) then i would like to have many gears. with the panasonic unit it is not possible to have many gears unless one uses the sram dual drive. so usually there are only 7 or 8 (or 9 gears) with the panasonic unit. only flyer offers the sram dual drive. - only flyer or another company too? - is it possible to mount a sram dual drive on bikes like kalkhoff proconnect or others using the panasonic unit with 8 gears? thank you

first of all Flecc thank you for your "wisdom" about "if we are so stupid to get involved in wars, we pay the price" back to technology: 1.ok noone has been able to go into the protected panasonic unit sofar but what do you mean by: not much point due to the interrelations with mechanic? you mean of course if i could prograsmm it differently i have to handle the mechanical part of panasonic unit? (or mechanical pert of the bike?) 2.full control through other cranks motors available? which one is actually in use? what are the pros and cons?

kalkhoff similar to flyer? thank you for the answer i am still on the side of "no pedelec". it means i am able to do my 25km way with race bike + i pay train-bus when not. so what will be my first pedelec and how much will it cost me? if i take one with panasonic unit: - flyer costs more than kalkhoff (?) i understand about 3500 euros flyer and now kalkhoff offers 2800 euros (s version, but 9 gears, flyer has the 24 gears dual drive sram). same panasonic unit? exactly same?

the motor panasonic to have it for my needs?

than in the rest of europe? or am i wrong? it seems that the nine continent kit is not so much in use in the uk. am i right? why?

do you know the kit nine continent? do you have any experience with it? or is it not sold in UK? it seems to be the cheapest on the market (200 euros?) is any kit as cheap as that in UK? thank you

i heard and red a little bit about it i guess it is far from the panasonic quality - is it cheaper? (how much where to buy it?) maybe if i go for it it will give me some assistance and i could put it on different bikes until i find the ideal for me (cause buying kalkhof or flyer is aftrer a big investment i cannot change the bike)

the german group zeg is advertising: -999€ for e-swing (pegasus bike) a pedelec with sanyo motor and nimh 24v 9ah -what is your knowledge about the sanyo motor? in comparison with others? -they offer too the pegasus e-bike1 for 1399€ with sanyo motor . here in the advertising i read that the motor is not driven by twist grip but by the foot of the driver i mean by the cycling. how is that for a hub motor in comparison with twist grip. i dont understand why here 1399€ as it seems to be similar to the e-swing but i will ask them what difference is in it -and they offer the bordeaux pedelec from rixe with the panasonic unit for 1799€. they write that one can choose the frame for lady ("wave") or frame shap for men. the question here is i think by kalkhof the agattu is 1800€ and pro connect is 2200€? and the only difference is the frame(?) is it so? difference between agattu and pro connect only in the frame? if so why such a price difference? thank you -i think that it has no twist grip but

as far as i understand for the motor directly acting on the chain like the panasonic one there is a sensor of the torque applied and the frequency of cycling and there is a programm telling from those parameters ahich power is delivered by the unit. the motors are all programmed for a low or unexistent power at high frequency and low torque (because of legislation 25km/h). only on flyer s is offered another programmation allowing a power at higher frequency. why is not a kind of throttle offered on such motors? like if i want i can decide which assistance to get? it has to do with the market or the technology?

i know the velomobilforum.de where they speak about electrical motors put mainly in "velomobil" (you know i think same word in english, recumbent + closed like a "cigar") but i dont find them so having your knowledge and experience. but maybe the point "due to individuals" is right. okay i got it. do you have any information about solar energy? theoretically it is possible to produce solar energy and store it in battery or is irt too expensive? why? because too few sun in europe? and theoretically in the sahara would it be cheaper or is it expensive due to the high cost of silicium layers or stuff like that to catch and convert the sun radiations? well okay if we all try to reduce aour consumption and if we produce better energy then of course it will be better to produce better energy and store it in batteries than to use fuels in motorcycles still the question if you have sonme information, what is the difference of one liter fuel burnt to produce electrical energy stored in battery used to drive a pedelec and one liter fuel used directly in a motorcycle? that way the motorcycle better?

test: when i write here what happens just to test the "title" field and to tell you: i called the shop and told them i am not buying the 399€ pedelec they said no problem they have other buyer. well it happened that saturday i wanted to buy and i wanted to go there with inliner but it was so windy and water from the baltic see came a little on the shore street. well i didnt reach the shop. + thanx to your advices + informations from italy (jobike.it) + my "inner decision" : well maybe wait a little and go some day with 1800 € for agattu and make experience with it and then go for more (pro connect or flyer) and give the agattu my sister in law (she shows interest). here i want to thank again for your help. i still ask myself why there is no german speaking forum (germany + swiss + austria(?)) such as yours or the italian or french one. but well maybe i didnt find it yet. (or more hills in uk? and germany flat + lot of cars + more money(?) and swiss austria very high mountain(?) and this but maybe new thread: where is a study or thoughts about "comparing pedelecs to motorbikes (i mean with gas, fuel,"benzin")regarding to environment because electrical bikes no polluting but the energy for the battery itself coming from gas in this case what is the difference between direct gas in motocycle and gas in producing energy charging battery and then consuming it as pedelec? pedelec lighter?

yes the point is it was sometime cutting out without the bike loaded with 100 kg. by the way what is your experience with pedelecs and loads. are some designed for trailers and other not? or do you have the experience that some are no problem with trailer? what happens to the others when high loaded. as an example in the normal bicycle world there are some bicycles designed for high loads like for postman or transport. maybe the question is: what happens in the pedelec world when being on a steep hill long time? overheating and then fusible broken? or too much current and controller stops at maxi current to start again later? or voltage dropping of battery bringing controller to "under voltage" and then cut and then depending on battery it starts or no starts again. yes "blei gel batterie" so cheapest lead acid battery. in that case as you say if the stop was due to "under voltage reached" there is no theory of why starts again after a while(?) therefore the thinking about connections bad . and is it possible having a motor with controller 14A to buy controller 20A and get other performances or is there always a couple due to designe "that motor with match that controller" . controller of 14A because of cheap? or because of motor not possible to get better controller? (idea of future= getting better battery and better controller for that cheap motor?)

the point remain for me: i am just fascinated by this pedelec word, the mix of mechanik electronic environment sport etc therefore well knowing that it is not the ideal for me i should buy the bike tomorrow 399€. now i have read that there is the kit cyclone with a sprocket on the chain (a "simple" panasonic) thanx for the hint of meter at about 100 € let say how far i will come with that still remain the question: why this stop and go i experienced? i hope putting less load that this will no more happens. but if it has to do with a low battery voltage how do you explain that after a while it starts again? this i experienced everytime! the battery doesnt charge or relax somehow when nothing is done just driving with it. i repeat: what happened to me was: suddenly motor not working at all so i was cycling with my muscles alone and tried some times the twist grip and nothing happened and then suddenly some times trying again it was there again and i reached my house. so if low battery voltage shuted the motor off why was it able after a while to start again? that time i guessed a bad connection and melted a battery connection better but happened again (or it was another connection bad more inside(?)) another point is that there are maybe different suzhou bafang motor models in use but the one i should buy now is similar to tzhe one i had

i remember now in a bike shop having seen a pedelec with schachner motor and there is a control device with 4 leds showing the current , let say one led at 2A one at 6A one at 10A and one at 14A. and in the bike notice from schachner it is written something like. - avoid the lightning of the 14A by using your muscles and assist with cycling. 14A means overload and it must be avoided - the 6A led should only lightning sometimes and for short time. ensure that by right gear ans assisting the bike pedalling now putting this thoughts with what i learned here i think: maybe me and the suzhou bafang and 14A maxi controller and my load of more than 100 kg means: i was always in a similar position as a schachner motor pedelec with the 14A led lightning everytime so my ideas are: - if i buy now the 399 € (thanx flecc for your advice on how to write €!!)PEDELEC I WILL FIRST just drive it slowly so that my 25km are ensured without me getting tired. i will put a speed tachometer for just be reading my speeds on my way and first know aha driving slowly at that speeds all is okay (then i will push the stuff at its limits later(?)) - well is it possible to have a control of what happens on my motor then? first idea is to take a multimeter with me. now if the theory of motor stop coupled with low voltage meets my experience so what is happening? when i start with a fresh battery i have been measuring the voltage at my led battery full with no load and it shows 39v i mean 39,1 or 38,7 stuff like that. so then i put it on my pedelec and imagine i push it at its limits overloading with twistgrip full open and suddenly it stops. then according to the theory, the moment it stops the input voltage or battery voltage was let say 31,5v as indicated at "undervoltage 31,5v" written on the controller. so then if i stop and take my multimeter and put it on the battery plus and minus (where the charger come in ) then i should read 31,5v? maybe no because that time it is without load? or put the multimeter constantly installed on my pedelec and follow the battery voltage while driving? it will work? or i put some small leds and electronic and they lightned at 38vand 35 and 32(?) actually on the twistgrip there is a led battery indicator which is either green or yellow. at yellow the notice booklet says the battery should be loaded. then maybe this led is exactly that: a simple indicator on the battery level(?). my experience with my old pedelec on 2x 25km was that let say after 30- 35(?) km (that time i had no tachometer measuring speed and distances) the led went yellow but it was no problem to finish my 50km -or it is possible in theory to read the current? i mean to see that 14A are reached? actually maybe i dont grasp the physics behind it i mean the relationship torque to current and voltage. i am so far vaguely that: a motor and battery given, open twist grip full means "no restriction on current token from motor"(?) and then reducing the throttle opening means something like chopping power modulator which is electronic chopping the current what as middle value a ampere value is

here i am again i drive 25km x 2 , mainly flat and small hills in germany. 1 year ago i bought a cheap pedelec 500 euros with chinese suzhou bafang hub motor + 36v led battery. it helped but only 3 gears on the bike was not good (either too heavy or too easy so icouldnt assist well). and the worst was: sometime the motor just stopped to work and i was then driving a heavy bike around. then suddenly sooner or later it started again. that time i had no ideas on pedelecs and gave the bike back loosing a little money. the customer service gave me under garantee a new battery and controller but it diddnt help but now they are my own. thanx mainly to your forum ilearned more about it and on the controller it is written maxi current 14A typical current 7A undervoltage 31,5v. because i want to learn all about it i have meanwhile opened the controller a am looking at the electronic circuits why this stop and go? my guess is now: i have been reading again the notice and it is written : maximal load on the bike 100kg okay let say when i am at my maximal weight of 85kg + lots of rainy clothes helmet shoes etc + tools for the bike + rucksack i am approaching 95kg and more and the i drove avery time with full speed i mean throttle open at maximum and more: i used to piut a "trailer"(?)( i hope is the right word in english i mean a 2 wheels small chariot for do my shopping ) of course with the trailer full load we are more than 100kg . so my guess: the motor is desiggned with the bike for a maxi torque and with more or near to 100 kg it means it has to deliver a too high torque. me putting the twistgrip full open and long time it force a maxi current of the controller and then sometime the electronic will shut off all this cause more than 14 A. and then sometimes later the electronisc will work again, when? after all has cooldede down? it has to do with the temperature? i mention even that once the security fusible was dead so the customer service changed it. so security fusible is maybe driven by temperature sensor on tzhe bike? do you have any similar experience with hub motors? or is another theory possible? and now this: thinking about what kit to buy (nine continent from ebay germany but never i boght on internet, suzhou bafang motor 140 euro and reuse my old controller? or crystalyte? where to buy? no shop selling it around the corner here so internet again or ebike.ca never done such buy through continennts, or cyclone kit from taiwan? where to buy? how? then of course in grermany heinzmann or schachner from austria but big money neede and for what performance?). other strategy of course is s flyer or panasonic motor in kalkhoff raleigh but well biggest money and until i learn more about and test them well some day on my commute it will take time and decide if s flyer muich too much or not or invest the money in learning slowly and putting motors on different bikes (the panasonic bikes of course i cannot take the panasonic unit and put it in another frame, no way for me) so and what happens now? actually a promotion at a bike shop on the cormer in my city: 399 euro for a rabeneick bike with sram spectro 7 gears and again the suzhou bafang motor and a led battery. so money matters and my situation is: - little money for immediately a pedelec working for me (not a kit taking me long time to put in a bike) - this time i will drive more carefully (taking in account: not more than 100 kg load, not twistgrip full all th e time (i hope i can control myself) and beside this of course assisting more thanx to 7 gears instead of only 3 - learning more about the hubmotors and the relationship between torque and current asnd controller and myx commute and my needs i will be closer to a more appropraiate finding of the best compromise for me - my second led battery is there and my second controller will use it for testing ( and i have to be careful with myself cause of course there is yet a tendencyin my thoughts to go inside the electronic, to boost the controller or get better one etc but again i have to calm myself between wanting to know all in one minute and wanting to get all and pay nothing. anyways this is a fascinating world for me a mix of pyhysics, mechanik, electricity, magnetism, electronisc + philosophy + environment care + globalisation with chinese europeans us , sport aspects human power of body and psychology, it is all in it that fascinate me and of course i start thinkin of having solar cells on my small balconee in cloudy germany to load my battery(!) well the difference between now and one year ago is trhat i was alone with bike shops having no real ideas of pedelecs but selling them and now thanx to you (thank you again and again) i am improving my knowledge the actual point for me is : do i buy the 399 euro bike saturday? i think i will do it even if it sounds a little stupid but so i have immediately a pedelec for small momey and will improve with more time. i just cant decide so quickly on flyer s or proconnect without really testing them and beside all i have my race bike and the bus so far, so 399 euro for an immediate pedelec even if not so optimal will help me and having experience with it i hope to improve with praxis and not only theory thanx again and any idea on the stop and go problems are welcome (it should not be the battery load i think cause i guess remembering this happening even with full battery(?) happy eastern alle zusammen!

- for the kalkhof/raleigh models: for 2200 euros i will have a bike eliminating all the efforts at starts and at hills (i dont have big hills) and dont pay tax like for the flyer. so well i understnad it with this there will be no need more for bus and train when i am tired. one question is : those bikes offers a good assistance until 15km/h and from there it begans to decrease. at 25km/h there is no more assistance 1. kalkhof has 8 gears. in theory it is possible to put a 24 gears like flyer? the sram dual drive fits in? 2. with duch a bike it is easy to reach 20 km/ or 25km/ for me(?) and then if i reached 25km/h and i want to go faster with my muscles what happens? let say for example in a flat area, i give not so much efforts to accelerate to 25km/h and then there is a point where the motor is not giving nothing more. then what?if then i put a lot of energy cycling i go faster and faster or am i with a heavy bike which is not designed for this? at the end it is all about compromises. maybe those bike are well optimized for the money the legislations and the weight (20 kg must be there for motor and battery and stability)

i bought a cheap pedelec in germany and was not happy with it there was a customer service with it they visited me and changed me the battery and the controller for free but it didnt help. so at the end i gave back the bike and lost some money on it but it was okay as now i have at home: - 1 battery pack 36 v (3 x 12 v batteries in a pack) + charger for it - 1 controller as i dont know yet what is the best pedelec for me or as i hesitate to invest too big money i have following option: - i can buy the motor for 140 euros. it is the perice the company tell me they would sell it to me - so with only 140 euros i will have at home: - 1 motor - 1 controller for it - 1 led battery for it then i have to invest for: - brakes - throller - put the motor in a wheel - find adequate bike for it - get a hall sensor - put all together it will be a lot of work but i am interested in and so i will learn more about electrical motors for pedelecsa and be able to have some assistance - of course the question is: - either i put 140 euros on it and start working - or forget the whole thing, sell some day the battery with charger and forget about the controller and the 140 euros will be part of the pedelec i will buy some day well now my questions would be: 1- did i forget something in my thoughts? will i get started with a motor for 140 euros or is something i didnt think about? 2. on the controller is written : typical voltage: 36v maxi current: 14A typical current:7 A under voltage: 31,5v as you told me, maxi current of 14 A means motor is not so powerful -what means typical current: 7A and "under voltage 31,5v"? 7 A is the "nominal" current? i mean where the "power ratio outpiu/input is maximal? and "under voltage?" it means under 31,5 v the controller stops? or it means typical current is 7 a when under 31,5 v, i means when applying 31,5 v? 3.this motor is sold in a bike with wheels 26 inches. if i put it in a bike 28 inches it is possible but less power? (okay i will not get crazy i will first start putting it in a bike with 26 inches and if all go good i can experimentate later with 28 inches) 4 at the end of the day, supposing i have been able for a small money and long time and learning process to put this parts together i will have a bike 26 inches wheels with led battery 36v and it will be heavy (let say 38 kilos as was the original bike or more) and i will have enough gears to assist it. but then the point with motor in the wheel is: - when i dont use the motor or when the battery is empty i drive with a heavy bike (on hills important) and the resistance on the motor is always there in the wheel(?) well the risk is to end with a motor of poor quality (but i think if i care about and know more about it i can controll what happens i mean if i dont overload it as maybe i have done with the bike i bought initially it was more designed for cheap and people not biking strongly and with too much load (i used it to drive a "small car for shopping" and maybe it was overload(?)) the other options are: 1. s flyer (3500 euros) + pay tax 2. kalkhoff agattu (2200 euros) or raleigh 3. a kit but here i start too with 400 euros 4.etc etc, think again, ... get in touch with pedelecs.co.uk etc etc

thanx to your support and the forums in france and italy i am seeing clearer in the pedelec world thank you i live in germany and here i found no pedelec forum. only at velomobilforum.de but those are mainly people riding recumbents (i mean the bicycles where you are lying) and velomobil = bycycles or trikes + closeed like cigar for wind resistance (sorry for my mixing of languages but i think you get what i mean) whatever i repeat: - my commute is 2 x 25 km and no high hills (maxi height 50 m) - now i orintate myself in buying a kit and mounting it in a bike - in ebay germany it starts with 200 euros, chinese nine continent kit i am getting more information and some day i will invest my question: - what are the kits available in uk? what price? - cheapest = crystalyte? start 400 euros? anything cheaper? where is the information about? i know i should read more threads before i ask you

I found an offer: pedelec bike (ktm(?)) 28" shimano nexave(?) 7 speeds. was bought in mai 2003 for 1650 euros new. now offered for 450 euros battery 32 v nimh motor: heinzmann "egstorn II(?)" written: n=144/min In 9A Imax 20 Mmax 33Nm the seller says that it goes to 18,5 km/h maxi. so it is corresponding to the indication n=144/min - if i compare with the prices today for motors: - heinzmann with battery and controller are more than 1000 euros -cheapest in germany are chinese kits starting 200 euros (poor quality, no battery) well for 450 euros i get a heinzmann motor - for that price what other motor+controller+battery can i get? no one in this quality? - the point is: this bike is maybe not the right one for me, i can bike well, but i like to put the heinzmann motor in another bike -if the motor goes alone to 18km/h, then i can cycle with my muscles and get easily 25 km/h? - if i dont buy this pedelec for 450 euros, what can i get for 450 euros? are they motors+controller+battery for that price? -can i boost the motor with a 36v battery? (i have a 36v led battery) thank you

am iright with the rest of the connections? - 3 large wires – for motor inside wiring? - 5 thin – for hall sensor? - 2 big – battery? - 6 small – throttle (?) - 3 x 3 thin – 2brakes + hall sensor (wrong?) if the 5 thin are for the hall sensor why are they 3 time 3 thin? 2 for the brakes and then? you deduce that it is a low powered motor because it is written on the controller maximal current 14 A, ?

I bought in germany a cheap pedelec 500 euros poor quality and chinese motor. Sometimes the motor stopped alone without „reason“ and then after a while functionning again (too hot? Too much for him 25 km long with me putting the throttle at maximum?). The company had a service and they gave me a new battery and controller but it didnt help. I gave the pedelec back. Now i have a 36 v led battery + controller. A cheap way would be to buy the motor and to put all this in a bike. But i like to be able to control such a motor i mean to measure the motor temperature, voltage, current and know all about torque , speed etc to be able to manage it well and understand the limits and what happens . The controller looks like a box 10 x 5 x 2,5 cm approximatively and cables: - 3 big –motor - 5 small – motor - 2 big – battery - 6 small – throttle (?) - 3 x 3 small – 2brakes + hall sensor on the controller it is written: typical voltage: 36 V, maximal current 14 A, typical current 7 A under voltage 31,5 v (what does it mean?for 7 or14A?) speed singal input volatage 1,2 – 4,4 V(chinese english, not mine!) brake input : electron : high , low x machine: on, close 1.i can try to buy a suzhou bafang motor like the one on the bike. do you know it in uk? or in some uk pedelecs? 1. Do you think i can use this controller on other motors? which ones? 2. Where can i buy a cheap motor? 3. and what about the motors that some people take from cars (ventilations?) or trucks etc and put them on bikes? danke qeme

Dear friends, thgank you again for your forum it is a big help for people standing in front of this "expensive" bikes (i mean pedelecs are more expensive as cheap normal bikes) and not really knowing if it is worth (i am still cycling with race bike ) and fearing to invest a lot to find out that it was the wrong product. and having not so much opportunity to really test (buy it buy it! it is the best one for you!). well i know the value of patience and somehow pedelecs are fascinating me: only biking today it has a limit and well if adding a environmantal friendliest energy to human power then pedelecs are a future. and it is cheaper than gas. so i have it in mind: flyer S is maybe the best option but expensive and i wait for really testing it. proconnect maybe the same = i have to test it. what about the motors in the front wheel? maybe i will get a kit? which one? so i would like to understand more about this motors. can you help me? my actual knowledge is: - there are all electrical DC motors. for example with 36 volts - 250 W is the nominal power: this means it is the power of the motor at the highest efficiencay under this voltage? example: 36 volts - when a bike is rolling it needs at a certain speed a certain torque.how is that achieved? because the voltage is changed inside the motor? i mean my battery is 36 volts but with the throttle i act on this voltage or on the amperes going through the motor? (like changing a resistance with the throttle? anyhow acting on the electronis so that the voltage or current is changed inside the motor?). to understand. if i take a motor without controller jhust putting a tension on it then it will run at a certain speed? i change this speed with the controller and throttle? - i try to understand a little more of the technology so that when faced with so many motors i can compare them somehow - or is any internet link interesting to learn about motors? thank you ramo

Hello, if i want to buy a motor to put it in my bike in the front wheel what are the options known to you, the prices and the quality? i live in germany and i heard about "nine continent". what are the other options? it seems to be cheap but what are the limits? overheating? no control possible? thank you

i saw a curve on the notice of use of kalkhof agattu: speed vs electrical power from panasonic -0-x (let say x = 6km/h i guess): at 0 a high power, then decreasing to x km/h. so for me it means the system gives a big input at the start at 0. - x to 15 km/h: the power rises to a peak - 15 km/h to 25 km/h: the power falls from this peak (at 15 km/h) to reach zero power at 25 km/h all this segments are linear (lines, not curves) so is that what you mean with 3 power levels? whatever, i understand so far: 1. panasonic unit reads the chain speed (through hall sensor at the motor) so they really get the cadence. the speed is an interpolation knowing the gears ratio maximum etc 2. the programm software cpu is like that: - from zero to x ( a low cadence or speed): big power is given, assisting the torque exerced by the driver - from x (let say cadence to make 6km/H) to x1 (let say cadence of 40?). it assists proportionally to the torque i exerce (let say 1:1 if i switched this manually as an example) - from x1 to x2: it starts to decrease slowly the ratio of the proportion to the torque i give (!!!) i mean it is like manually i have switched 1;1 but from now on, at this x2 highest cadence (let say 40) it will no longer nbe 1:1 but 1:0,9 then 1:0,8 then 1:0,7 etc - is there another from x2 to x3 and x3 to x4? is that what switch levels are? or something similar? the problem being for me with 42 years that i dont know if i am a keen biker or not or keen biker in spe etc. my goal would be maybe with a computer for cadence and torque to know more about myself, my art of biking, the cadence i reach, the torque i need. and ideally to this knowledge would be that i can compare it to what flyer or raleigh or kalkhoff etc opffers. so ideally would be to have data on the systems to compare. but it may bre a long way but it should come in the future. meanwhile, thanx to your work and help we are a step forward thank you

any experience with the cybien concept? what do you think about this kind of assistance? it is the only one company doing it like this?