AJ_P

Yes but in this case I'm not sure just how much deeper the indentation could be made without collapsing the aluminium chainstay. It certainly isn't going to give me what I would need but I do have some good news. As I said before, rotating the motor downwards a little so the protruding screw section on the circular housing behind the chainring no longer fouls the chainstay has given me a little leeway. I have managed to get the shims necessary down to 3.5mm in total using the two 1.5mm shims in the the kit along with some 0.5mm plastic material I cut to suit. I can easily get a sheet of paper to slide in the gap. This is not permanent as I have ordered some 0.1mm shims off Ebay and may even get it down a tiny little hair further. As it is, the chainline is pretty straight on gear 5 which given that I have an eight speed freehub or whatever it is called, isn't too bad. It's not perfect but it is pretty close to centre. I suspect that chainline is rarely great on these mid drives as they sit out so far from the bottom bracket by necessity. I'll maybe post a photo later of what the chainline looks like on the lowest gear. I'm no expert so I really don't know what is acceptable. However, this is about as good as it is going to get and I feel that if my present gearing doesn't suit my needs, then a new rear wheel with a may well be the answer. It does appear to me anyway that it should be a viable option. I'm making progress with it and I at least now know that I cannot improve it much more. The next issue involves mounting the heavy 19.2ah battery on the downtube. More welding methinks. By the way, what a disappointment the Hailong Max case is compared to the Hailong G70. The G70 has ample mounting points on a full length strip of metal whereas the Max uses a ridiculously short piece with only two bolt holes to hold a significantly heavier battery thereby leaving the majority of it unsupported by anything other than plastic. The mind boggles.... All the best, AJ

Hello Sturmey, There already is a factory indentation on the frame there. With the motor in the correct orientation, the little projecting piece sits just within it but in order not to hit it, I have to shim by 6mm. Rotating the motor allows me to use only 4mm but the chainline still looks uncomfortable to my mind at least. AJ

If I fit the motor in accordance with Tongsheng’s instructions which involves having the frame block bolt locked at it's lowermost position, one of the bolts that fits into projecting sections around the circular housing behind the chainring touches the chainstay. That requires 6mm of shim. However, if I rotate the motor backwards a little, I can avoid that issue and get away with 4mm. Before I removed the triple chainring etc I took a few measurements from the seat tube to the teeth and found that the largest chainring was 30mm away. The TSDZ2 chainring is 40mm from tooth centre to seat tube. I simply cannot get it any closer by any more than about 0.5mm if I were to shave down one of the shims a little. The only other way of closing the gap so to speak would be to cut into the offending part of the frame. That would require a piece of solid aluminium being shaped to fit tightly and then have it all tig welded up. That’s a bit drastic though and I’m not sure if I want to do that to my bike. Anyway, as for chainline, it is straight when on 7th gear which I assume is not preferable. I can however access all eight gears but I'm really not sure if the amount it deviates from straight when on 1st gear is actually too much. I'll have to fiddle with it some more, fine tune the derailleur etc and see how quiet it is, or not. Does anyone know if the Bafang fits any better than these in terms of chainline etc? All the best, AJ

I have fitted the motor to my bike and in order to avoid touching the chainstay, I had to add just over 6mm of shims to get a sliver of clearance. I suspect that this will rule out a second chainring as I don't think the chain line is going to be ideal even for what I've got at the minute. I'm going to fit the chain, hook up the derailleurs and route the gear cables which will actually squeeze nicely between the bottom bracket and the motor each in a little length of 4mm outer housing. I will then have a better idea as to whether or not I can access the eight gears with the motor set out so far. I expected my B'Twin Rockrider 520 bike being the same brand as my wife's would have presented a similar installation to hers but apparently not. If it doesn't work then I've got some head scratching to do. Maybe a new rear wheel fitted with a cassette with a smaller number of carefully chosen gears but spaced out from the wheelhub, or simply a different bike. We'll see shortly.... All the best, AJ

I bought it as a 48v 15a but I can't open the case without voiding the warranty. If that's the only way to be sure then I'll just have to take it on faith for the time being. All the best, AJ

My front derailleur is a triple so if I go down this route that's at least one thing I don't have to buy. I just bought the motor and battery for my own bike so I'm hoping to get going with the conversion soon. I have the bottom bracket stripped so with a bit of luck I will get some time to start on it. I'm going to have trouble with the battery though. Even though it fits easily within the frame triangle on this one, the nutserts are too low down on the frame to suit it and I really don't think they're going to be up to the task of holding a very heavy 19.2ah battery in place. I'm thinking of making up some sort of steel bed for the battery once more but this time it will have a few round clamps welded to the underneath which can then be secured around the frame with some rubber strips inside for some protection and to assist in grip. I'm not sure yet what approach to take but I'll know better once I start working on it. Something like these might be an idea. Just as an aside, does anyone know how to tell for sure that the two motors I bought are actually 750w and not one of the lesser models? There's no labelling, not that that could be relied upon anyway but I am very curious indeed given how much money I have spent! All the best, AJ

I actually have eight gears on the back wheel so it will be interesting to see if that will work with the standard TSDZ2B chainring. For some reason I had it in my head that there were only seven. I have just bought the motor and battery for this bike so I will see shortly. All the best, AJ

For anyone interested, here's another dual chainring Tongsheng conversion just posted.... A longer travel front derailleur is required so an update will hopefully be provided soon. Regards, AJ

Hello Sturmey, Would you mind telling me how many gears you have on the back wheel and can you access all of them with the dual chainring set up you have? I'm debating whether to go with a dual chainring or change to a 9 speed cassette for which I would have to replace the rear wheel. All the best, AJ

Are you going to try a 34 and a 42 together? I got a puncture in the back tyre of my bike so took it off for the first time and discovered it doesn't have a cassette back there. If I want to do any experimentation in that area then it's going to mean a new wheel. At least if a functional dual front ring configuration can be made to work then I don't need so many cogs at the back I suppose. Good to hear you're making progress. I'm itching to get going with converting mine. Hopefully I'll get a motor etc soon for this one. I'm definitely leaning towards the TSDZ2B though I see the first review has been released for the Toseven. It's expensive though... All the best, AJ

I'll be very interested indeed to see how you get on. If I get around to it first I'll be sure to let you know. All the best, AJ

You mean a non dished one? AJ

Hello Nealh, That's great to hear! Non dished I presume? Does it work well? Would you have any pics of your set up to help us form a plan for our own bikes? All the best to you, AJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPKNaWUMlcw:422 Here's a very interesting video on the subject of dual front chainrings on the TSDZ2 where the chap appears to be happy with the result he has achieved. It opens at the appropriate part. You've probably already seen it but for anyone who hasn't, he has fitted two non dished chainrings, a 34 and a 46 tooth onto the Tongsheng TSDZ2. Originally his bike had a three chainring setup so in his case at least the front derailleur had enough travel to enable this to work for him. I very much like the idea of that. It's certainly appealing enough to give it some serious thought and it'd be very interesting indeed to experiment with it so that may be an option for the future, though I wouldn't want to spend too much just in case. All the best, AJ

I don't like the idea of the battery being on full display though in our case it will never be left alone long enough for anyone to steal it. Apparently though there are such specimens among the human race and if an opportunity presents itself there is always someone willing to seize it. I just prefer the battery being ensconced in a padded shell so to speak that will give it a bit of protection should the bike tip over onto something that could potentially crack the Hailong case or even worse penetrate a cell. The latter isn't particularly likely but stranger things have happened and I'm a firm believer in thinking ahead. The fact too that such a bag would tie neatly in with the small side bags especially if a similar colour gives it a discrete appeal. Early days though and if I find something that fits the bill, I'll give it a go. All the best, AJ

Hello Cadence, Simple, effective and much, much quicker to complete than mine. It looks spot on too and probably cheaper to make what with the price of electricity needed to run a welder! The only problem I had really was that the pannier is made of steel and aluminium thus limiting where I could weld to it. I had to cut some parts out as it is a B'Twin brand designed to accept their own clip in accessories. Those bits were in the way so after a bit of thought, I removed them. A basic steel rack would have been better for what I was doing but in fairness, this one is strong and very well made. I simply couldn't fit the battery anywhere else. It was the only viable solution. The bike has a small aluminium frame and my faith in a couple of little rivnuts holding down a heavy and expensive battery while rattling along very rough paths is not high. So much so I am concerned at relying on them to restrain an even bigger battery on my own aluminium bike when the time comes to convert it too. Maybe a 3mm steel bed plate with a couple of clamps on the back to physically wrap around the down tube. We'll see... I have a couple of pannier bags here that sit on the top of the rack only. I was hoping one of them would be large enough to accommodate the battery. I would have fitted some internal padding to protect it in case of the bike tipping over so in the meantime I am going to keep an eye out for something like that. With a pannier bag under the battery and draped down each side, it would look very discreet indeed I suppose. As for cabling, I have ordered some mesh sleeving and am hoping that that will make a tidy job of it with some abrasion protection to boot. There's work yet to be done, but it is enjoyable and the fact that it worked so well on it's first time out has been very encouraging. All the best to you, AJ

Here's some I took the other evening while out in the forest. Apologies for the lack of focus but I could not see the screen on my phone due to the sun. Of course it focused on the background rather than on the subject but there you go. I used M5 x 20 button flange head stainless bolts to attach the battery mount to the plate. They need to be shortened a little. I was unable to source any aluminium from my local steel supplier so I bought some 2mm plate instead to make a bed for the battery to rest on and shaped it accordingly. I marked out where the battery would screw down, drilled and then welded nuts beneath so that a spanner wouldn’t be needed there. I also bought a little 25mm angle iron to make the two supports so that there would be an area clear under the battery for the pannier bags to fit through once I get them. It is not ideal in that the material that will sit underneath will have to be itself modified due to those two supports. I could not space them further apart though due to the rear section of the pannier rack being made from aluminium which meant I could not weld a support there. It is what it is and it will do just fine. With hindsight I would now make it with 3mm steel plate and instead of using angle iron I would buy some 25mm box. I would cut one side of the box out to make a C shape. This would make it simpler and quicker to make. I actually cut out a little fillet of steel to make a support in the centre of each piece of angle iron to square them to the base and add a little strength. Box section would be quicker and it is already square, but you use what you’ve got. The reason for 3mm steel plate for the base is that it is simply more rigid. The 2mm moved a bit with the heat of welding, not that the piece I got was anywhere near flat to begin with but I would have preferred 3mm anyway I feel. I did weld more than strictly necessary but I'm a belt and braces sort of man. I haven't welded in years and wanted to be confident it would stay put. In truth, a few good heavy tacks in the right places would more than suffice. The rack was dropped as low as it would go knowing the battery was going to be raised a bit above that. In reality there is no particular need for a 25mm gap between the battery bed and rack and I may indeed shorten it if it bothers me because less would do just fine. As for centre of gravity, you can feel the weight really only when off the bike and manhandling it. It likely isn’t what you want for serious mountain biking but it isn’t an issue for what we do and is probably totally fine for a commuter bike too. It's a case of making do but I hope this helps someone else in a similar predicament. All the best, AJ

Right, a little update.... I modified the rear pannier on my wife's bike by cutting out what was in the way and welding in an additional piece of steel to support the raised base I made for the battery. This lifts the battery about 25mm above the pannier frame thus allowing me to fit a pannier bag setup such as this for example underneath the battery, ....with a little bit of modification to the bag of course. It does however solve the problem I had and looks reasonably neat. I took the bike to one of my usual forest trails yesterday and have to say I am very pleasantly surprised at the power. As far as my wife's bike is concerned, it needs no alterations to gearing as it is capable of ascending anything we tested it on. I removed the speed limit and tested the bike on the stand just to see what it could theoretically reach in each of the seven gears. First at maximum was 12.2 mph and seventh reached 24.4. I tested it myself despite the bike being too small for me on a bit of a hill that I would normally have to get off on and walk up. It's nothing too severe but tiring to me at least. I tried the bike out in each of the four modes and started off in third gear on level ground at the base of the hill while providing plenty of input myself. I was standing up much of the way and noticed that on sport and particularly turbo modes the front of the bike was light and the rear wheel was spinning at times. To my mind there's no shortage of power, and what surprised me most was that eco mode provided much more assistance than I was expecting. It in itself is very usable too. I did not however as yet carry out the bearing mod. I noted how loose they were on the shaft and this concerned me regarding the ingress of dirt and grit onto the motor. Yesterday following a couple of hours worth of cycling on the rough, gravel forest paths, the motor acquired a decent covering of dust over it such that I suspect that in an environment such as this, the bearings while prolonging the life of the motor in one way might shorten it in another. I don't know for certain but it is something I am thinking about whether rightly or wrongly. The battery level (Samsung 48v 14.4 AH) meanwhile on both the screen and the battery itself did not change one bit at all. A smaller one would have done very well had one been available at a good price but I've no regrets there really. I believe the TSDZ2B will be sufficiently powerful for my own bike if I alter the gearing. I too have seven gears on the rear. I will have to determine if the gears can be changed, if seven of a different ratio would suffice or if I would need to change to a greater number of gears. The question there is what is actually on my bike at the minute, can I even change to a bigger cassette, freewheel hub etc and if it fits, can I actually select the gears due to chain line. I must add at this point that the seven on my wife's bike change with no issue and no excessive noise. The motor itself is very quiet indeed but it is of course brand new so that may change with use. The subject of gearing is virgin territory to me and I know precious little about what would work and what doesn't. I'll have a go though and see once I get around to gathering up the bits and pieces now to convert mine too. However, I wanted to update anyone interested and especially all those who kindly chipped in with their time and knowledge. I now have one ebike conversion which has turned out very well indeed with an owner who is over the moon with it. Job done, ...or at least it will be once I have tidied up the cables to my satisfaction. Thanks very much to all who helped. AJ

As long as whatever I finally choose to place the battery in is strong enough to take a knock, I won’t worry about it being particularly waterproof. Neither bike will be out on a wet day as we will only use them on off the beaten paths for exercise and leisure. You’re right. There has to be a point when close enough is good enough. If it does the job and doesn’t involve wrecking your head then call that a success. You’ve been experimenting since the early days. You know a thing or two by now! Personally I am going to carry on with my wife’s bike according to the plan. I don’t like the battery up on the rear rack because it definitely isn’t light and certainly will be felt when on a stand or when walking it. I have no other choice though, but if it is a problem then I will simply keep an eye out for a more suitable used quality bike for her and swap everything over. There was a barely used Trek recently that wasn’t too far away for around £150 or so if I remember correctly. As you would expect, it didn’t sit around for too long before being snapped up. That’s an option should matters dictate such an approach. In the meantime I will lower the rack as far as I can and we will see how it goes. I still have to get a bit of aluminium plate to make up an attachment between battery and rack but hopefully will get my hands on something in the next few days. The bearings have arrived too and I have to say that was a very quick service indeed from Wych Bearings. All the best, AJ

Those look good. Would do no harm in the right situation for a bit of belt and braces peace of mind. I'm trying to keep the bike as light and manageable for my wife as possible. She's not the most confident on it and bulk will definitely receive a negative reaction from her. The kickstand that is currently on the bike is rubbish so I am going to have to look into something more substantial, ....and trustworthy. I like the ones with two feet like a motorbike stand but they may not fit with the motor. I'll have to look though and see. All the best to you, AJ

You are fitting your battery on the rear as well? Is that the box you are using? It certainly looks a lot stronger than the one I was evaluating for suitability! I haven't even dry fitted the battery to check for what I may need in regard to cabling etc so no doubt I will be placing similar orders for items soon enough. It will all work out though in the end. Having it not look like crap when all is said and done will be a bonus! If I could weld aluminium I would fab up a nice little box on the back with opening side flaps for easy access or a rear opening door instead with a slide out battery tray on drawer runners. All the best to you, AJ

It looks like my best option for my wife’s bike is to go with the rear rack and attach the battery to that. I could then fit a front rack which she can use to carry the bag she usually has on the back. It mightn't be the ideal solution but in this case it is the best option. I did look for another battery but anything smaller in physical size is made from Chinese cells and isn’t a whole lot cheaper. This battery contains Samsung 21700 cells and cost me about £220 including delivery. I could buy a plain wrapped battery without a Hailong case at £195.99 but once again, they are normally Chinese cells, the price isn’t much cheaper and a soft case for it adds another £16.99. That brings me almost up to the price of the quality battery I have at the minute. With regards to fitting this battery to my own bike, I would be concerned that it wouldn’t be big enough in terms of capacity to deal with the weight of my outfit over the course of a day out in the forest. The truth is I honestly don’t know whether it would or not. All I know is that my bike etc etc weighs a lot and will require both the propulsion and power source to suit. A 14.5ah battery may be absolutely fine for my needs but I don't know yet which motor is going to suit either and having no experience of Ebikes really whatsoever, every single aspect is an unknown quantity to me. Still enjoying it though. I have the motor loosely fitted and most of the ancillaries so once I get a little time, I'm hoping to finish it off and see what needs to be done then in terms of alterations, chain rings etc. All the best, AJ

Bearings are on their way. Yes, trusting the substantial weight of the battery to reliably hang upside down on a thin aluminium frame via a handful of nutserts while riding on rough terrain doesn’t inspire much confidence to be honest. I know others have done it but I’m not going to follow suit. My main reason for not wanting to use the rear rack is that it is quite exposed if the bike were to fall over which knowing my wife is going to happen a lot, but needs must so I will probably shape an aluminium mounting plate to suit it. I don’t know how strong the Hailong cases are but tipping over from that height with the resultant momentum onto a sharp stone or some such could probably penetrate the plastic and cause a problem. I suppose I could fit it in a box of some description that would house the battery and this would then give some additional protection for when the inevitable happens. Of course there needs to be room to access the battery lock, switch, port etc so that is another consideration of course. Either way, none of it is insurmountable. All the best, AJ

pedalfettal, You're a gentleman. I will order these tonight and get them fitted as soon as I can. Having the shaft supported at each end has to be a good thing. Are the original oil seals replaced by the two blue bearings or do the bearings seat deep enough to allow the oil seals to be refitted? The battery for my wife's bike arrived and it most definitely will not fit within the frame triangle so I am left with two options. Either I make a plate for the rear rack and fit it to that thus losing carrying space and making the bike top heavy, or my preferred option where I fit it to the underside of the down tube where it will have about an inch of clearance from the front wheel at full suspension depression. That involves drilling the frame and the fitting of nutserts which means I will have to buy a nutsert tool kit. I've seen a few cheap ones on Ebay which are likely not great but it doesn't make sense to buy a dear one for a few holes. I'm somewhat concerned if nutserts will be strong enough though to hold a heavy battery upside down while being vibrated along rough forest tracks. I wouldn't want to see that damaged, that's for sure! All the best, AJ

The motor has just arrived. The battery will be another day or two I imagine. I have my wife's bike ready for fitment apart from a cable under the bottom bracket but I would like to fit these additional bearings before using the motor. I can see the oil seal on the non drive side; the seal on the other side being behind the chain ring I imagine. I've seen references to two additional bearings and some that say three. How many do I actually need, is there a preferred brand for this task and can I refit the oil seals afterwards or are the bearings in their place instead? I wouldn't like dirt and grit to get in there. Am I correct in saying they are 6902RS bearings? I'm looking forward to this. AJ