morphix

UPDATE: I'm making some progress with this. The 3-pin connector out from the controller is definitely for the PAS. And the throttle seems to use the common +5v -5v red and black wires and the common white wire which the PAS sensor uses, as far as I can tell. I've got the motor spinning, now just need to figure out the brake motor cut-out sensor part!

Thanks Kiwi! Short of experimenting with your line of thinking, I don't think there's much else I can do really. Since these controllers are only cheap, it's worth a shot I guess. It will take me just as long to get a new cable loom as it will a controller, so may as well give it a try...

Here is an original drawing of the wire harness, although it never had two brake cut-out sensor connectors (only one): http://i.imgur.com/IGvZ2DD.jpg From this drawing, we can conclude that the 3-pin socket from the controller is for the PAS sensor. That leaves the throttle and brake cut-out sensor to be figured out, how they manage to share only 3 wires on the 8-core cable.

Hi all, I'm hoping someone can help me with this little problem I'm having making a new wire loom for a controller. I have a Brushless DC controller (9-pin HAL sensor style) which looks like a pretty standard small KU63 BMS-style. However it has a slightly different PCB layout and came from a different supplier (has model number "ST24ZWS-IID16" on housing). It came supplied with the common KT-LCD01 v2.5 LCD console (see below for pics of both). I'm trying desperately to recreate one as a favour for a friend. I've managed to get the LCD working fine, as that's very easy from the colour coding of the wires. The difficult part, is working how how the throttle, PAS sensor and brake-cut out sensor connect to the harness/controller. Looking at the controller itself, it only has 2 cables out (8-way and 3-way) excluding the DC 24V input and the 9-way motor HAL sensor connector. So we have a maximum of 11 wires out from the controller (8+3) for: 1. LCD console (5-way) 2. Thumb throttle (3-way) 3. PAS sensor (3-way) 4. Single in-line brake cut-out sensor (3-way) Incidentally, all 4 of the above were working on this bike with this controller, prior to the wire harness being lost. Observations: 1. The 3-way cable connector out from the controller unit has white/black/red wires. 2. The 8-way cable connector out from the controller unit has white/black/red/grey/yellow/blue/green/purple. 3. The throttle cable has black/red/white. 4. LCD console cable output has red/black/blue/yellow/green. 5. Brake motor cut-out sensor has black/red/white. 6. PAS sensor has black, red (and either green or blue). Questions: 1. Since there's only one 3-way connector out, and it's white/black/red, it could be either the brake sensor or the throttle sensor, as both colours match. Which is more likely and is there a way of telling? (I have a multi-meter and basic electronics know-how). 2. Is it likely, that the original wire harness somehow either coupled the throttle+PAS sensor (when in use, both PAS and throttle could be used together, ie you could pedal with assistance AND use the throttle at same time, else you could switch independently to one mode on the LCD console, thereby disabling the throttle/PAS). OR 3. Is it more likely, that the brake-cut sensor was wired into both the PAS/throttle negative (black) wire on the harness to cause a motor power feedback cut-out to the LCD console, and didn't touch the controller itself? I'd welcome your thoughts/suggestions! I'm really scratching my head with this one, and don't want to risk damaging the controller, as it's the only one I have and I'm facing a tight deadline with this...the person needs it for next Monday! Thanks in advance, Paul P.S. As an aside. I'm trying to make the controller cabling neater, sturdier and water-resistant than it is at present. I'm intending to put inside an IP62 plastic case with just 2 cables out using grommets and IP62 connectors. Is this a bad idea, as the aluminum housings of these controllers serves as a heat-sink? Would it be wiser to put the entire aluminum housing inside a new plastic housing, rather than just mount the PCB by itself? http://i.imgur.com/yFWZtTK.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jboKAjA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/HcV6O4n.jpg http://i.imgur.com/wMMMEWl.jpg Note: where you see bare tinned wires coming out of the controller above, they originally went into an 8-pin screw-thread connector on, which connected to the wire harness. 5 of those wires go to directly to the LCD (this I have confirmed), but the other three (purple/grey/white) I have no idea where or what they connect to. Thanks, Paul Here's some more info on the controller: The outside of the controller housing has the following: Brushless DC Motor controller Model: KT24ZWS-IID16 Brake Input: low-level Speed set: 1-4.2V Max Current 13+/-1A The PCB is marked with the following: 086-0521265576493 WWW.SZKTD2.COM KTE-S3-E3 The LCD console is the KT-LCD1 V2.5 4F model.

Another quick question... I want to change the housing for the controller to something more water-proof with proper cable sealing. The aluminum housing seems to be acting as a heat-sink. Is it therefore not advisable to mount the circuit (without the aluminum housing) into a plastic case housing? If that's likely to risk overheating, I will simply put the entire aluminum housing into a larger plastic housing.

Does anyone have any wiring schematic for the following controller and LCD combination: Controller: KT24ZWS-IID16 LCD: KT-LCD1 V2.5 The kit is pretty standard stuff comprising: a 3-wire thumb throttle, a 3-wire PAS sensor, an in-line 3-wire brake motor cut-out sensor (with LED that illuminates when brake is pulled), and an LCD console with 5-pin connector. I've lost the original wire harness and I'm trying to create a new one, but have one thing has got me stumped.. The controller doesn't have all the usual bunch of output wires for all the sensors. Instead, it has only 4 cables and connectors out: 1. 3-pin yellow connector 2. 5-pin black connector (but the flex is actually 8-core, 3 wires seem to be not used). 3. 9-pin black connector to motor 4. 2-pin IEC DC power input I definitely remember the wire harness having 3 connectors at the front end (3-pin yellow thumb throttle, 3-pin yellow brake sensor, and a green 5-pin LCD connector). There would have also presumably been a 3-pin yellow connector for the PAS sensor (the common disc type that sits between the pedal crank). That sensor I think connected either to the other end of the wire harness which had a female 3-pin connector. I'm trying to recreate a new wire harness. I've got the LCD part sorted which works. The problem is figuring out how, and where, the throttle, brake sensor and PAS sensor connect to the controller. There's only one 3-pin connector out from the controller. However and 3-wires appear to be unused in the 8-core flex to the LCD) so I'm thinking something else connected to the 8-core flex besides the LCD. Is it likely the brake cut-out sensor connected directly to the controller, and the throttle+PAS somehow fed into the LCD console via the wire harness? If anyone has any insight, ideas or even schematics, I'd really appreciate it! Thanks, Paul http://i.imgur.com/jboKAjA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/HcV6O4n.jpg http://i.imgur.com/wMMMEWl.jpg Note: I've hacked off the main connector (it was a black screw-thread connector 8-way to the harness. This supports the idea that the 3 additional wires are used to connect to the throttle and/or brake sensor/PAS sensor. Only 5 of these wires in that connector go to the LCD and I have successfully identified which. http://i.imgur.com/yFWZtTK.jpg

Before I go... Maybe, just maybe I'm entirely wrong and the EU will struggle along and things will work out. It's possible. The EU is a sizable economic area. However the debt burden is now so large, that only Germany has enough trade surplus to really support this level of debt, and that's even with all the other member States (including UK) contributing a fair bit more than they do now by linking membership free to economic growth (and so far Cameron has refused outright). Many Germans, from what I've been reading and watching, are actively opposing any moves by the German government to saddle them with the lions share of the EU debt. So Merkel and any future German leader and government are going to face a real battle on that one. Now the ECB (European Central Bank) claims it has 600 billion Euros in reserve, which is enough to pay off the deficit, but it would it leave the coffers completely empty. The ECB has been playing a game instead of Euro value currency manipulation for years now. Many (big) currency speculators seriously doubt the ECB even has 600 billion euros on deposit. If the currency market does call their bluff, and some are indicating they may well do (George Soros and co) then Euro may well be crashed, like the pound was, when it was forced to devalue after heavy shorting. Another problem for the EU is accessing cash on the international markets. Many countries (and large investment funds) are now very nervous of buying EU Member State government bonds and wanting very high rates of interest for the risk. Italy and Spain for example have been issuing 10% rate bonds which is just unsustainable and really compounding the EU's debt problem. The problem with the EU is complex as you can see. It's part of a global economy and open to international monetary and financial markets. It seems unable to manage or cope with the scale of financial crisis which is unraveling. If the UK does exit, I think it will unravel even faster TBH and other countries may well leave soon after.

OK shall we leave it there flecc? I've enjoyed debating with you anyway, tremendously! And although tempers got a little heated, I thank you for not resulting to personal insults and below the belt stuff.. I know you're above that tho anyway ;-) Thanks for a good debate and have a good evening...let the voters decide eh!

Ok how about this flecc for a positive, what's your opinion on this.. If like many, you've had to have any major surgery on the NHS and wait months, or have a busy GP surgery and had to weeks just to see your GP or months for a referral appointment with a specialist or consultant, you could say the NHS has some problems..either understaffed, lack of resources, or too much demand on it.. whatever the cause, it's not running anywhere near as efficiently as it could be. And worse still, many towns such as my own, face losing their hospitals COMPLETELY and the absurdity of having to be flown by helicopter to neighbouring next towns hospitals. This is in a town over 110,000 people and growing! If we left the EU June 23'rd, we'd immediately be saving £50 million a day. That's enough money to build a new NHS hospital EVERY TWO DAYS. Just think what that money could do in very practical ways to transform the immediate main problems the UK faces: 1) The NHS burden strain, months waiting for ops, people dying. 2) Housing shortage, we have couples with children in flats. 3) Overcrowded schools and slipping education stands, UK is falling behind many countries on even basic education. Our country is in a serious mess. And this shouldn't be happening in a first-world country with the 5th largest economy on earth. Even Cuba has a better public health-care system than the UK. So, right away there's an immediate positive benefit. We stop paying the EU membership fee, and we start investing the money into re-building our own infrastructure to improve the lives and living-standards of our own people. Then there's all the indirect cost savings. That could potentially run into billions of pounds a year, which instead of being wasted on re-doing EU-related things, goes directly into our economy.

See you say I'm expressing an opinion. It's an opinion based on the available facts, so it's an informed opinion which can be validated. On the weight of the evidence, the government has embarked on what many would consider, an exercise in scare-mongering, casting doubts over leaving or making it look like a very bad choice..call it whatever you like. They have said nothing positive about leaving, neither have they offered any evidence to support their position. It's all vague and implied. That suggests to me manipulation of the electorate, rather than a reasoned case for staying in, by a government which has done its homework and come back with a ton of evidence to show leaving the EU would badly damage our economy and leave us in a very bad financial situation. If they *had* done that, I wouldn't be arguing the opposite view with you now would I? So we have to ask, why hasn't the government provided any evidence to support their risk implications of leaving? Perhaps because there isn't any? Or perhaps proper commissioned academic studies even might reveal the OPPOSITE findings?

Oh I have no difficulty in people having an opposing view, that's why I'm still debating with you. And I'm not trying change your view to mine, attack you, ridicule you or personally insult you for it. I respect you have your view, I have mine. We're just having a debate to see who's view holds water and who's doesn't. I love nothing more than a good intense reasoned debate with a highly intelligent person, such as yourself. It's part of academic life and a skill you learn, as I'm sure you know. We will never agree on this, that's obvious as you support the Federal State model and I'm fundamentally opposed to that, as are many other people in the UK who wish to retain British sovereignty. So on that issue, we cannot debate. On the realities and facts of whether the EU is a success or failure, and its future, that's definitely open for debate.

I agree flecc, but the cost of the EU is too high mate. Just too high. It's gone way too far and strayed from its original purpose, that's the problem. As a string of countries will be lining up to tell you. Look at the mess they face and years if not decades of hardship, and now firmly beholden to the EU. I wouldn't want to be in their position. Do we REALLY want to gamble with the future of our country?? I'd sooner take my chances outside the EU, based on its past and present day performance. If the EU *could* be reformed, I'd be fully in favour of remaining a member, as the principle is sound and good. But it has to be sustainable, workable and make economic sense. At present it does none of that.

There is nothing "unbased" about the accusation of scare-mongering. Open the government's glossy leaflet "trade at risk" "jobs at risk" "a very uncertain future" Nothing positive, all doom and gloom. And the constant drip drip drip from the BBC every day on TV and radio, every interview is negative and focusing on the risks...no debate hardly on the benefits of what an exit vote could mean... anything DOES sound positive, BBC changes subject. They ARE scare-mongering people into voting for an in vote. It's damn well obvious. If they weren't, they would have a balanced and reasoned debate, and their every-household leaflet, would link to a website showing studies, facts and evidence. There's not a shred of evidence to support any of their vague implications that leaving would be terrible for the UK and our economy. Obama's speech was PURE scare-mongering, suggesting that leaving the EU would weaken the UK's border security. It's just absurd and illogical. It would do the exact opposite. But of course, coming from the President's mouth, people are likely to believe it and take notice.

Flecc how many more countries have to become bankrupt before you and the others realise this isn't going to work?? Greece is bankrupt, Iceland is bankrupt, Ireland is bankrupt, Italy is basically bankrupt, Spain is tinkering.. and probably others I haven't looked recently at debt-to-GDP ratios. Even our OWN country since joining the EU is worse off with debt-to-GDP running dangerously high at around 70% and higher. We had to bail out Ireland to protect our own economy! There simply is not enough money in the EU to pay that debt! Everyone I know is shorting the Euro and has been for some time, it's lost a lot of value. It's bankrupt. Countries that were economically fine before joining the Euro are now bankrupt. Economies are ruined and EU countries cannot borrow money on the international market. How can you say this is working?! Speak to businesses in the EU as I do, (and people who use the Euro) and they will tell you themselves how bad it is. They preferred their old currencies. The Euro and being tied to a single monetary policy has not been good for those countries, and well the evidence is there to see..rioting on the streets of Greece and elsewhere.

Yes but you're taking my comment out of context flecc. The point I was making is that the government has taken a "it's vital we remain in" stand-point, and now is the BBC and every other propaganda at their disposal to try and steer Eurosceptical voters towards a remain-in vote, by playing on peoples fears of uncertainty and risks which are not quantified, verified or even measurable. It's all very vague. There's no real debate going on from the government's side and they have not provided anything approaching a convincing and compelling evidence-backed argument to support us remaining a member *without* the reforms Cameron promised. This is why I made the comment I did. It would be foolish to rush in and vote to remain, without considering the implications of that fully. And also the BENEFITS of leaving fully (and the risks and challenges of course, if there are significant risks.) At the moment people are basically being told how to vote. And to put that faith in the government. I'm sorry that's not good enough. Most people don't have any faith in a government that doesn't keep to its word, and doesn't deliver on its pledges. Why should we think the governments position on continued membership is substantiated when they fail to show any evidence or studies? They haven't done anything, except produced a glossy flyer with some facts and figures on EU and UK trade, and a few if's and maybe's.