Thamosy

I'm driving myself potty with indecision over this problem. I found this about Phase-Hall wire combinations on endless sphere and thought it looked very useful. https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484 But then I downloaded his spreadsheet of the '36 possible combinations' between a Bafang motor and an infineon controller and my brain won't accept that there are three good combinations -- which is what his spreadsheet seems to show. Right now I'm wondering whether one of the ebike testers would give any idea of the correct combination. Or do they simply show that the connection is good? There's so much to learn ......! The good thing is that my freeing up the motor has been good. Whilst it's not exactly purring it didn't overheat when flogging it up a steep hill and I've at least bought myself a bit of time before a new hub becomes urgent.

I'm not having much luck over this one. I've even tried searching images to see if I could find one of similar design. It's not the usual circular shape, but one with three 'prongs' to take the planetary gears and a somewhat smaller clutch than seems usual. I've 'bitten the bullet' and I'm going to go for a Bafang. Hopefully I'll get it to match with my present controller, but if not, do you know whether simply leaving the PAS unconnected allows it to function in a 'twist and go' fashion?

I should've taken a pic of the lettering and hub when it was off the trike. I don't know whether these pics will help. Right side Left side Ideally I'd like a new clutch as it seems to be fine when cleaned up and reassembled, but I've now done had to do that twice in the last 6 months and it runs nice and quiet for a few hundred miles and then starts binding again. The people who supplied the trike are less than hrelpful.

I have a hub that needs a new clutch. It's a planetary geared hub stamped with WKS-1 inside. Anyone know where I can get spares?

My weekend's work to clean and re-grease the innards of the hub has given me a lovely quiet motor, but I won't know how successful it's been until I've had a long run. The inside of the hub is stamped with WKS-!. I'll start a new thread to see if anyone recognises that. The news on the contoller front is that it will only fuction as a sensored one. I may well have to redo the whole wiring before I'm through.

I like the idea of a screw on plate. Where the wire comes out is a bit irrelevant so long as its at the righthand side (to make it easy). As for the controller and connectors, I don't have a photo, but the wiring of my setup is not something I would have done if doing it myself. The usual wire with 3 Phase and 5 Halls has connections in two places. One close-ish to the controller with the connection for Phase wires of a type I can't remember, but I remember the Halls have a Molex one. Those connections are enclosed under the battery fitting and they are the very devil to get at, a number of bolts for the battery attachment and a whole lot more for the cover itself. The other end of the wire has connections near the hub. That makes it easy for punctures and removing the wheel, but I thought the wires very vulnerable for my kind of wet, muddy, off road and sometimes stony tracks, so I wrapped them in a sealed polythene cover.This is a photo I took before wrapping them. I'm fairly certain they are Deutsch waterproof connectors and I'm just about to order some spares. A bit pricey, I'll only get the relevnant half. Perhaps you can also see why I thought the wiring a bit vulnerable. This photo was in the process of waterproofing, just a polythene wrap sealed at top and bottom with a zip tie around a rubber seal. They've come out so beautifully clean and dry that it was well worthwhile. Tomorrow I'm ging to pull the gears and see what I can do to free up the clutch. I need the trike for next weekend and I doubt BMS battery can get me a new hub before then.

After 'sleeping on it' I've come to the same conclusion. I checked on the MAC's wiring and because its wires are at the left it would mean a lot of rewiring to accommodate that. The Bafang has wires at the right and disc at the left (please correct me if that's not right) and so it should more or less 'slot in.' Can you answer a few questions about its construction? I read somewhere that it has a screw in side plate that made access difficult. BMS pictures never show much, but a few photos on Aliexpress seem to show the usual 6 nuts. ??? Also the photos on Aliexpress show the cable not through the spindle but from the sideplate close to the spindle. Is that the way its configured? I'm contemplating the 'hub only' though I won't lace it into my existing rim. The idea is to repair my present hub to keep as a spare and then I should never end up as now, in a kind of frustrated 'sans bike' situation. I've sourced a suitable rim, but I'll need to do a lot of measurements before ordering the correct length spokes. Somewhere I have Sheldon Brown's book on that ...... Whether I go for a ready built wheel or a hub depends on the next couple of days. I'm going to do a bit of 'freeing up' as I did earlier this year (just waiting for the gear puller from my nephew). If I manage to stop the clutch binding it might help the decision, to DIY lace or to go for ready built. I dunno which might take greatest time (not mine, I mean for delivery). I'm also going to get a new controller (just in case the Bafang won't match the existing one). Do you have any ideas on that? BMS battery suggest three for the BPM2, two of which are sensorless and square wave and a sensored one that's sine wave. I've no idea what is best, though because I've no pedal power I'm not keen on sensorless. I also don't know whether they'd function without the PAS connected. I also don't know whether the connection for my existing power control unit would fit ... and so the questions go on ..... I may well be back soon asking more questions about the controllert!

Hmmmm. I hadn't taken the speed and torque into consideration. I'm not too bothered about speed, but I'd like as much torque as possible. But I definitely don't want any more heat - the excessive heat of this summer seems to be what caused the problems I'm having now. I wonder what happened to the trusty 36V 500W MAC front hub I used to have? I've not yet had a reply from EM3ev so I'll see what they suggest. Have you any alternative suggestions? Another question in relation to the motor overheating. I read somewhere that adding a bit of autromatic gear fluid could help, but I'm loath to try it. I see that Grin is marketing what they call 'Statorade' but its only really for DD hubs with the 'outside' magnets. My present system is a squirty bottle of water, but I'm sure something better should be possible. I must read the thread about heating in endless-sphere. Again, any ideas?

And hey, I do have another question. It's that the only MAC motors from EM3EV seem to be for 48Volts and as all the family bikes have interchangeable 36V batteries I don't want to rejig to 48V. But I'm assuming if I run the 48V 1000W system with the original 36V controller and 36V battery I'll get the equivalent of a 750W motor. That should be okay, shouldn't it?

This collective help and advice is more valuable than you'll ever know.

Thanks again. As always you've ben really helpful. I've finally made the decision and I'm going to buy a MAC hub like the one I had years ago. I just had an excuse from the agent who sold my present trike that a replacement hub is likely to take another three months. I'm sure (hope) it won't take that long to get a MAC hub from China. It'll be a few weeks, but I'll get back to report how I get on.

Thanks a lot for all the advice. And thanks for the 36 possibilities chart! I've no problem testing anything with the wheel of the ground, but I can't try the PAS because it's a powered front wheel add-on to a wheelchair. The best I can do is set it to the lowest speed (4mph on a 500W motor should be no load!) Would you recommend a check with the Turnigy watt meter or just for it to 'sound right' and not rough? I'm now a bit worried about whether the controller will work if sensorless. I had a problem when the unit was new (about 4 years ago) and I'd been along the east coast 'Cinder track' (Scarborough to Whitby if any of you know it). The roughest track ever and I'll swear the sleepers had not been removed from the old rail track. Both I and trike were shaken to bits and my trike lost power. I stripped everything down when back at base and found one of the hall wires in the molex connector was loose (not properly engaged during manufacture and shaken out). I can't recollect which colour that was, but with only one 'failing' that had stopped everything. If none of them are connected?? I suppose the easy thing is just to disconnect the whole 5 of them and check that out with the old motor. But I think I've made the decision to 'go for it' and get the type of MAC wheel I'm familiar with. If the worst comes to the worst I can always replace all the other bits that go with it.

I'd pretty much come to the same conclusion about the 'China made' and my only worry is what damage I might do if the connections don't match. My thinking (from a bit of web searching) is this. 1. That the motor should run (on test) with the phase wires connected, but without the halls being connected. I hope that's right, but it might only be if its a sensorless controller (which I know it's not).. 2. If the phase wires are wrong I gather the motor will either run backwards or it will use too much power (I have a Turnigy watt meter). I hope that's also correct, but I've no idea what readings the Turnigy should give me (though I can check with the existing 'dud' motor before starting). 3. Once I have the phase wires okay ?? then there are only 6 options for the blue, yellow, green of the halls if those matching colours are wrong, (red and black staying the same, surely) but I'm not sure what to expect. Would the wrong combination of halls affect power drain in the same as with the phase wires? Your experience with interchanging different hubs gives me a lot of confidence. Thanks for that.

Depends on what you mean by standard. It's a 6-pin connector, but not the same type as those fitted on the kits I've used in the past. All the wires, phase and halls are the same colour as those.kits I've used.

Hello again. The problem is that I have no idea what factory the hub came from. The unit was imported from Spain and sold through a UK agent (my choice had been ease of coupling to the wheelchair rather than make of hub). A few months ago I opened the motor to give it a bit more lubrication and that's seen me through the summer, so, being familiar with my former MAC hub I know it's not that and I don't think its a Bafang either, but I can't get any sense out of the UK agent. He doesn't seem to speak to the Spanish supplier and my atempts to contact the supplier by e-mail have drawn a blank. (I don't speak Spanish). So, I'm guessing when you say you use a '9-pin break out cable' for testing the Hall sensors live that would give you an easy way of testing the various possible combinations of the blue/yellow, blue/green etc. I guess the fundamental question is, if I wrongly connected any of the sensors would that blow anything before I had a chance to get it right?

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm an electronic dumbo and although I've managed to build three e-bikes from kits and do odd repairs I'm not sure how to do what you suggest. I'm assuming in the hall wires that red is +ve and black -ve (ground?). So, with my multimeter on a DC 20Vsetting I probe between the black and the individual yellow blue and green and turn the wheel backwards to get a 5V reading. I seem to remember doing that in the past, but doesn't it only tell me the hall sensors are working, not necessarliy that they match with the controller? I seem to remember reading somewhere that plugging the phase wires incorrectly wouldn't hurt anything, but that it might make the wheel run backwards or overheat with no load. Is that just a case of trial and error?

I'm hoping someone can help with fitting a new hub to my existing setup. (i.e. without replacing everything) I'm disabled and ride a wheelchair with an add-on powered front wheel that turns it into a trike. (To be recommended, I can now get out with the rest of the family). The 'but' is that I'm pretty dependent on it and after several thousand miles grinding up the steep hills where I live it's now showing signs of wear. I contacted the place that sold it, intending to buy just a new motor and wheel, but it will take months to get a replacement. On a previous 'add-on' I replaced its original powerless 200W 'whatever' and fitted a MAC motor and used that VERY successfully for some years before getting this latest model. What I'm wondering is whether I could replace the wheel in this latest model with a MAC motor without having to do th whole shebang. It has the 'usual'?? blue, yellow, green phase wires and red, black, blue, yellow and green hall sensors, and if I married these with those from the controller, would that work? If the answer is 'DON'T' is there any way a novice like me could tell what is what in the wiring? Or would you advise starting from scratch if I can't get hold of a new wheel?

Hi again. Thanks for holding my hand. It all went well and the battery is now switching on and off as it should.

Hello again. Thanks for that reassurance. A couple more questions. First about a replacement switch. The battery is a 36V 15Ah bottle battery and I've just been trying to find a rocker switch replacement. To me, most of the ones I can find on line don't seem man enough for the job, although I guess its never going to be switched on/off when under any load. The best I can do seems to be one rated at 20 amps that looks pretty much the same as the existing one (that has failed), but do you think that would be okay? My second worry is still about the wiring. On this battery the B+ wire is through the switch to the positive discharge (load) but that side of the switch is also linked to the positive charging port as well. Would it matter that I'll be disconnecting that too? I can't think that disconnecting the P- (the negative discharge/load) will affect the BMS, but I'd be grateful for a confirmation of this. I'm not worried about the 'careful not to touch live wires' -- I'll instantly insulate anything that's cut and I'll probably be wearing rubber gloves and my wellies too! Thanks again for the help.

I've taken a long time getting around to replacing my BMS, and many thanks for the advice. I did check all the cells and they seemed okay so I decided the dent in the aluminium pack was probably a good indication the tripping BMS was the problem. So far so good, I've not yet had the new BMS trip out. Fingers crossed. But I've another problem with the battery on my sister's bike and maybe I should start a new thread for this, but I'll ask anyway on the offchance .... This problem is a bottle battery where the switch has gone soft and refuses to switch off (good that the battery is still useable, but it can't be left like that). I opened it up with the intention of replacing the switch, but find that it's wired with no fuse and no way I can disconnect the wiring. (I've no idea how it was put together) but my plan of action is to cut the positive and negative wires so as to disconnect everything and replace the switch with a new one. I'll then fit a Deans connector to the positive/negative wires when putting it back together. Help! The wires are live and is there likely to be a problem cutting them? Is this likely to damage the BMS? And which wire should I cut first? etc, etc. Any advice would be truly wonderful.

Hello, I have a Battery problem - thought to be its BMS. I have a bottle battery that fell onto a stone floor. It is now not working properly and I can only think its BMS is now faulty. I bought a new BMS identical to the one fitted but I'm worried about the correct order in which to connect it up. A year or so back I replaced a BMS incorrectly (ruined the BMS) and had to repeat the exercise. Second time it was fine. I don't particularly want to go through the rigmarole of individually connecting balance wires in the correct order and wonder if I can simply take out the balance wire plugs from the old BMS and put those plugs into the new one. In terms of the wiring order, could I first connect B- then simply plug in the collection of balance wires already connected to the battery, then finish by connecting P- and C-? Would that wreck the new BMS? In terms of why I want to replace the BMS, these are the symptoms. All cells are okay and have held the charge for several months whilst I've been pondering the problem. The battery charges okay and cuts off when at the right voltage. When out riding it seems fine for several miles when not put under load, but as soon as put under maximum load it cuts out and the battery then appears to be totally dead.But it isn't, when the case is opened the cells and charge are fine and simply taking it from the case seems to rejuvenate it! On the second occasion this happened the supposedly dead battery (left in a corner for a few weeks) suddenly regained a working state. Any ideas why this should happen (if not the BMS) would be gratefully received!

I too fitted the Schwalbe Marathon ...... and I don't like to say this but I'm one of those weak and feeble women! (Sorry)

Just to say that I used the Sun 36H 349mm rim and had no difficulty whatsoever in fitting the Brompton tyre. Maybe it's a tad tighter than some, but there'll be no difficulty if you remember the inner tube needs slight inflation and that a smear of cooking oil on the rim and tyre will help.

Hello Paul B I've now been 'tasked' to electrify a third bike and all I can offer is that "it all depends on what you want to end up with." Right now I'm in a quandary over this third project because the bike in question is one with (in my opinion) more gears than are ever needed. So, I'd be interested to know what others think is reasonable gearing for an electrified bike. (This third project is to be a rear wheel drive and, whilst I'm at it, I think it would be worth changing the gear cassette to a smaller one). I recently electrified a Brompton for my sister (the result described as "fantastic") and although she has an available 3 speeds in a the basic Sturmey Archer hub, she tells me she's never changed from the middle gear since the switch to electric power (and that's even when riding in the hillier parts of the Peak District).

I've a couple more questions about batteries that I hope someone can help with. The first is about the use of chargers for different Li-ion and LiFePo4 batteries. In the family we now have 3 electric bike conversions – two with Li-ion batteries and one using LiFePo4 – and the batteries each came supplied with an independent charger. However, ALL chargers deliver the same charging rate, 42V at 2A, and I’m wondering whether there’s any reason one charger could not be used to charge all three batteries. I’m thinking specifically of taking just one charger when we’re on holiday. My only worry is in the case of the LifePo4 battery where the charger has a case that’s kind of “universal” and which could be marked with an appropriate red dot for charging either Lead-acid, Lipo (I assume Li-ion), or LiFePo4. That tends to imply it’s important to match charger and battery and that current/voltage characteristics aren’t the only criterion important for charging. So, I wonder if the charger and battery BMS need to be carefully matched, and whether I could use one charger indiscriminately. The second question is about delivering a less than maximum charge to the battery so as to increase its longevity. Charging to only 80% is recommended in a few places and since our batteries are rarely fully discharged when we’re out riding, charging to only around 80-90% seems a sensible thing to do, especially because an extra year or more of use would save quite a few pennies!