JOB100

Thank you guys for your comments. Much appreciated. As far as going 25mph, I am well aware of the legal restrictions, but I still want that option. Either through derestricting or buying a kit that is actually capable straight off the bat. So I don't think a 250W motor is going to cut it? I'm pretty sure I'm going to be very disappointed with a bog standard e-bike.

Hello everyone Am excitedly looking forward to getting an electric bike. I've poured over a tonne of info online, just trying to hone in on a few basics so I can start looking at specific models / kits I may buy a conversion kit for my full size folding (Tern Joe 26in bike, mechanical discs, 21 speed shimano derailleur) or I may buy a specific bike. I would prefer the former. So here are my requirements: I want to cycle without assist almost everywhere when on my own, but occasionally I am taking a child and / other heavy loads now. I usually do a combination of cycling + public transport in London, but it is virtually impossible as soon as it gets busy so I want to cycle to places directly now. Definitely going to be occasional use. 1) Remove battery and be able to cycle with a freewheel to keep myself fit like a normal bike 2) Do a round trip of 30-35miles without having to recharge with a child / load 3) Will use pedal assist with when I ride with the child/load. This is to stop myself getting too lazy, and keep the battery as small as possible. 4) But want the option of occasionally blasting along at say 25-30mph for say 2 x 5mins out of a 1hr journey on my own (not with a child!). 5) Almost all my journeys will be no more than 35miles round trip, on pretty flat terrain. Any hills I will tackle with pedal assist and human grunt. Acceleration isn't important to me. Pedal assist, efficiency and occasional top speed are I lean towards mid drive because of the efficiency. However, I don't relish the additional maintenance and replacement of components. I am also keen to do this as cheap as possible. Been looking at 750W 48V Mid drives with 13Ah battery or 1000W 48V hub. I could happily drop to 36V and 500W, provided I could reach 25mph when on my own (without child / load). Top end budget would be £500 all in, because I am capable of fitting the kit myself. Happy to buy direct from China or say buy a used motor kit + new battery to keep cost down. If I buy a full bike, it will be secondhand. Would appreciate your suggestions guys Thanks

Well I get the picture now, thanks to all who responded as to why this is the case. But I do tend to sense an "I'm alright Jack" sort of attitude amongst some people. Look, I'm not trying to get anyone's back up, but I think the point has been made that we do live in a very different cycling culture and infrastructure to Europe. I live and commute in greater London, which is heavily congested and polluted. Trains are incredibly expensive and awful. I'm sorry, but for those with dreamy attitudes towards public transport should try taking my train from East Croydon which is late absolutely every single day............or cancelled. Keeps swapping platforms. It's just a case of how late it will be. Buses are a joke. I tried it one day from East Croydon, and it took 1.5hrs to travel 8 miles. Luckily I don't then have to go on to face the Tube Strikes in central London. I'm not just saying this for my benefit, there are thousands like me who have no good options. As I've said before, mopeds are dirty noisy beasts, which only gain quickness by filtering traffic which is dangerous, and start up costs are large (£1400 - lessons, tax, insruance, riding gear) before you've even bought a bike. Electric mopeds are some way off from being affordable. For all the hype and attention the cyclelane superhighways in London are generating, I still spend 95% of my time not in a cycle lane whenever I do commute by bike. So all these suggestions that it would be dangerous to see 20mph bicycles in bicycle lanes are null and void. Yes it would be dangerous, but A) there are so few cycle lanes for it to even happen en masse and B) I've seen bat out of hell cyclists on London Streets and they tend to ride in the road alongside the existing cycle superhighways because there are so many slower cyclists in them. I'd also like to point out that I was cycling around Copenhagen a few months ago, and whilst the majority were riding a fairly slow pace, there were plenty racing cyclists on the commute. Remember, the goal should primarily be to rid ourselves of unecessary cars on the road. We still have far too few cyclists on the road and need to do whatever we can to get more out there. Pedelecs just don't meet the needs of distance commuters.

I fully understand what they mean in the legislation that says "an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedaling” fall within the scope of Directive 2006/42/EC on machinery". But I just wanted some opinions on why on earth it makes sense to cut out the motor at 15.5mph. I'm having real issues justifying buying a machine that stops at that speed. I desperately need something that will ease my journey, and get me to around 20mph. If I travel at 15.5mph I can't get where I'm going in time as it's too slow, and if I go above this, I knacker myself out because it's all human power. Just trying to understand the logic behind why they chose to do this? For me, adding my leg power to a motor working at 250w to provide 15.5mph, so that infact I can get up to 20 or so mph would solve all my problems. Instead, it solves none of my problems.

Good point. Yeah, I would be tempted with an electric moped but it's all the rigmarol that goes with it. i.e. If I get a decent moped, the CBT, motorcycle training etc. You're looking at minimum £1400 for all the training and equipment before you've even bought a bike. Decent quality electric mopeds start from £3500. Can't afford it, and also can't afford a 1hr+ commute each way for my job. Not long term. I become incredibly tired, ratty and frankly a danger to myself. As you point out I don't see the argument. I can easily do 20mph on my bicycle, sometimes more when I have the energy. So what's the big deal with a 20-25mph electric bike. The issue is the awareness and attitude of the rider. Anyway, I've hijacked my own thread so I'll start another about why a pedelec stops providing power at 15.5mph. Makes no sense to me.

In an ideal world I would be happy to see s-pedelecs fall between non-regulated push bicycles and mopeds. They clearly are not mopeds. No where near the power or size or danger. However, I know there are plenty of dangerous non-maintained bicycles out there ridden by unconcious and untrained riders, and allowing one of these people on a 28mph machine certainly would be dangerous. Some sort of licensing, insurance and compulsory helmet use would be sensible. But at a lower level than mopeds. It's own individual category. The government may well consider people in this category catered for with mopeds, but that's not meeting the needs of s-pedelec fans and rarely is a government in touch with the needs of the people. I would like to point out again that this is and should be all about reducing our impact on the environment, getting people out riding even if assisted to improve health, reduce stress by improving commuting, reducing congestion and thus reducing the burden on society such as pollution, NHS, road repairs, transport police etc. I have considered everything everyone has suggested, so I re-looked at commuting with a pedelec with the 10% leeway i.e. 17mph. Why is this not enough? I work 9hrs physical job 10-15 miles away, and the location keeps moving i.e. I work in construction. Call me crazy, but I like to get to work 30mins early so I can stop for 15mins, grab a coffee and be ready to roll as soon as 8 o'clock rolls around nice and refreshed. I'm just using my situation as an example. It's bad enough with my (minimum) 1.5hr commute by public transport each way. And there's no way I want to be spending an hour sat on a push bike or pedelec each way. I worked out that 25mph would be perfect. 30-40mins. A moped doesn't meet my needs because filtering is dangerous on London roads, I enjoy riding a bicycle, e-bikes are easier to lock or store, mopeds are often still stuck in traffic giving me lung cancer . Plus all the safety gear etc etc involved. I think this class would ideally suit people like me who live in the suburbs. But yes, a well maintained, licensed and insured bike would be better

Some people have enough free time and energy to cycle an hour or more each way to work on an e-bike, but I, and many others will simply struggle. It isn't one rule fits all I'm afraid. Some people will be happy to pootle along at 10mph, but others want and need to go quicker with less effort. If you have a nice desk job with regular 9 - 5 hours, you have a lot of excess energy and more time to burn and you may even forego electric all together. For those in self employed physical jobs with long hours, or low pay you don't have the time or energy. How about those pushed out of the city centre due to high rent prices. The cycle industry may be happy with the status quo, but clearly all the speed demons aren't, and they also need to be accomodated. I don't want to travel fast for the sake of it by the way. I'm not obsessed with cycling faster than everyone else. And there's nothing wrong with it. Unless you aim to put these people back into cars. S-Pedelecs is a means of tackling this issue. Can't these people not just use an electric car or moped if they want to go faster?. Simply because of traffic. You'd save money but then spend more time getting to work. Why not use public transport? You might save some time, but it costs a fortune. This is about improving quality of life, and for a lot of people, especially those in big cities, the solution is to reduce costs and time. If it means less unecessary gas guzzlers on the street, it has to be all round safer and better for all. I'll certainly give a 250w e-bike a go, but I'm at the point where I'm done with public transport after a few decades and looking to get a car.

Thanks everyone for all the well informed replies. As usual the Europeans are ahead on this topic, and an S-Pedelec class is required. The whole concept of riding an e-bike slower than a normal human powered bicycle whether on or off road is ludicrous. I understand that inputting human power on top of electric assist will gain me some speed, but I think 25mph top speed on full electric would be about perfect. Sometimes I actually don't want to put in any power of my own, but on the other hand, I don't want a high speed vehicle like a moped.

I found this kit which I'm sure is one of many on the web which has an off-road switch allowing it to go above speeds of 15.5mph and 250W: http://www.electric-bike-conversions.co.uk/acatalog/electric_bike_rear_hub1000w_kit_details.html I read this page on this website about UK law: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/electric-bike-guides/uk-electric-bike-law/ It sounds like it's saying that it is not guarenteed legal to ride at higher speeds on any off road land, rather than saying that it's illegal to ride a bike with an off road switch below the 250W and 15.5mph limit on UK roads. But it is not clear to me and could be saying that these bikes are outlawed without further registration as a moped. I contacted the Electric Bike Conversions company who say it is legal to ride it. I actually plan on keeping within the law on my daily commutes, but would like the option of switching to above 15.5mph when on private land or off road. So my question is, is it legal to ride a bicycle with such a kit on UK roads, provided it is kept switched to the 250W and 15.5mph max?

Great. Many thanks for your answer

Hi Anyone got any experience of trying to register a more powerful electric bicycle with VOSA? I would like to build something like a 1000 W pedelec for commuting and wondered what the process was like her in the uk, how much it costs, what you have to do etc. Many thanks