sabretache

Pre-cursor to a heart attack maybe ???

I've just been through a similar pricing / dump the first (of two) cars excercise too. Absolutely horrifying when you look at all the numbers. In my case I got a second-hand diesel Range Rover 5 years ago (main justification to tow horse boxes). Towing not required any more and wife's little KA pefecly adequate for our now modest motoring needs. Anyway, the five year figures damn near gave me a heart attack when I sat down and did them properly. Without setting it out in all its gory detail the total 5 year cost of operation and ownership was just shy of £50,000 !!! - That's £10,000 per annum and an average cost per mile of about 66p (44p of that being depreciation). Needless to say I've sold the bloody thing. Also, further to my doom-and-gloom posts to the 'Green not the way....' thread, those with an interest in the underlying dynamics of petrol price increases (and frankly, considering the epoch-defining changes that 'peak-oil/energy imply, that really ought to be everyone), Here is a link to a solid mainstream analysis of the issues: The Oil Crunch Ahead

As one of those waiting delivery of a Pro Connect, I'd just like to add my own thanks for the impressive technical information provided by Flecc. It is very much appreciated.

Web site is fine for me too. Also there is a 'Live Help' facility on the site which I used very successfully yesterday. Got a response from 'Tim' vary quickly who answered my question straight away.

Further to that last doom-and-gloom post of mine - I meant to include these links for your edification. A bit of video humour on the suveillance state thing - though gallows humour is probably a more apt description Eye on you and Pizza surveillance

I can understand and sympathise with the sentiment but fact is that, regardless of an optimistic or pessimistic outlook on the world, we ARE all doomed anyway . A high proportion exceed the biblically allocated three score and ten years these days but the Grim Reaper gets every one of us in the end. There is just no way around that little conundrum. Though as an ardent student of Ernest Becker, it seems to me that that doesn't prevent the vast majority of us making the pursuit of immortality in one form or another, our life's obsession. As dear old Bob Dylan would have it 'He not busy being born is busy dying'. On the Surveillance State issue - and just to freak out everyone a bit more - consider this (among a host of other equally chilling scenarios): If the proposed Nation ID scheme does come to fruition, each card will contain one of those ubiquitous RFID chips. Not to broadcast the personal info embedded the card but just sufficient to identify it to central database-linked receivers. That means that, not only will every 'legitimate' use of the card be logged in perpetuity, but every time you come within range of a database linked RFID receiver will be logged too. Just give your imagination a little leeway here - a receiver in every CCT and speed camera will be just the start. It won't be long before your entire life's movements will be logged in much the same way as plotting your cycle trips on an OS map with that clever GPS thingy, but with dates and times included and all at the service of Big Brother who, naturally only has your best interests at heart. Me? I too am pretty well past it these days, so what the hell; but I have children and lots of tiny grandchildren who are not. I really do have grave concerns about what the future holds for them.

No apology need Cliff. A bit of levity is always a good antidote to taking ourselves a little too seriously IMO - even if the subject matter is off the scale of almost any list of pressing global political issues. As for 'Soylent Green'; one of the better of it's genre - again IMO; I just love little japes like that though - they're part of what makes life worth living when you have a world view that envisages a similar (ish) dystopian future near dead-ahead.

Harry Your faith in the power of 'the electorate' is touching but I fear seriously misplaced. If there is one thing I have learned over a lifetime of varying degrees of involvement with both local and national politics it is that, so far as the epoch-defining issues of the day are concerned, the electorate are close to irrelevant. The power elites of this world are (and always have been) adept at ensuring they have both presence and major/dominant influence on any party with the remotest chance of taking the levers of nominal governmental power in the Western so-called Democracies. The only way to achieve Privy Council status in the UK (and its equivalents elsewhere) is to understand where the real power lies and to scrupulously avoid damaging its interests. That means becoming a very accomplished and convincing liar so far as communicating with 'the electorate is concerned' - Tony Bliar being the UK's modern archetype. For the remainder of our politicians, well they are little more than the PR face of policies over which they have little to no influence either. The exceptions of course are all those petty little internal national issues like twiddling with tax thresholds, the balances of public expenditure projects and petty but partisan class-war galvanising legislation like The Hunting Act for example. But the European project, The Washington Consensus, Globalized 'Free' trade (aka trade on terms advantageous to the existing power elites), economic growth. Forget them. If you have a seriously dissenting opinion you will be marginalised at best; if you become a real and credible threat, you may be otherwise dealt with. If treaty votes do not produce the right outcome, why then, we'll just have to change the title of the treaty and have another vote (or not as the case may be) until we DO get the right result. I could go on but I think my position is fairy clear. Suffice to say that I personally see escalating global conflict as the result of the three converging issues mentioned in my previous post. That together with escalating domestic surveillance and suppression of dissent as a prelude to having to deal with civil unrest on a scale we have yet to see in this country. I would love to be an optimist on these issues, but then I'm also a sucker for pleasant surprises and you just can't have it all eh?

I have some sympathy with the proposition but not much with the practicality of the proposed alternative. Assuming 'environmental problems' refers principally to anthropogenic global warming with the predominant alleged cause being atmospheric carbon emissions then, for a whole complex of reasons, I agree that the prospects of achieving the alleged required reductions are vanishing to zero. I also agree that the optimum (sustainable) carrying capacity of planet Earth is maybe 1-2 billion humans and that, if humanity survives the next couple of hundred years, its population will probably stabilize at about that level. Where I disagree is the route that will take us there. IMHO it will not be by way of planned, globally agreed action, but rather by perennial, business-as-usual, warmongering stupidity over access to the energy and other resources necessary to sustain the unsustainable ("The American way of life is NOT negotiable" and all that). In other words, The world will continue to be required to see things the 'Washington Consensus' way - OR ELSE. That together with the fact that right now, global food production systems require that we burn about 10 calories of hydrocarbon energy to produce every calorie we eat; let alone diverting a substantial proportion of the corn crop to ethanol production so that the madness can continue with less dependence upon wicked OPEC. There is in fact a looming, epoch-changing confluence of 3 inter-related global problems at issue here: Population growth, climate change and peak resource production - Go on, google 'Peak Oil' and do some fairly basic EROEI research. If that does not set a few alarm bells ringing, well then, maybe denial really IS just a river in Egypt. Never thought I'd find myself discussing TEOTWAWKI on an e-bike forum either - but there you go

By far the biggest influence on the question posed by this thread will, IMHO, be the one first raised by Russ - availability of cheap hydrocarbon based energy. All talk of cheap non-polluting alternatives to oil, beg massive unanswered (some would say 'unanswerable') questions. For example, hydrogen is not a primary energy source, it is simply a carrier - much like a battery - and damned expensive (inefficient in primary energy consumption terms) to produce - let alone to distribute in petrol station type fashion and which will require an entirely new infrastructure too. Likewise electricity itself; electric vehicles may not themselves pollute but the present balance of plant types required to generate the stuff certainly do. There is now a wide consensus that the global peak of all-fluids hydrocarbon energy production is less than about 10 years away, if it is not passed already. With over 85% of global transport still dependant on oil and burgeoning demand from aspiring Indias and Chinas, that has massive implications for our happy motoring/cheap-flight holidays lifestyle (It throws considerable and much needed light on the real reason for our insistence on invading other countries too, perish the thought) This is big subject - VERY BIG - in both importance and complexity - and yet near total silence from the politicians. My own opinion? - I think the pressure to use ALL energy more efficiently will mount inexorably - and principally through the pricing mechanism. So, I think the electric bike and its successors/derivatives etc have a seriously bright future; society in general and its cosy personal transportation assumptions less so.

I've got a Pro Connect on order too. I think you'll find that the price increase is a function of the Sterling/Euro exchange rate. The pound has been reaching successive record lows against the Euro over the past few weeks and the trend looks set to continue. It makes the original launch offer price look that much more attractive though.

On another positive note I came across the forum whilst researching prior to purchase (pending) of my first ebike. It has been a gold mine of useful information. I too am awaiting a Pro Connect and so can understand the frustrations voiced elsewhere. But, have not joined in the 'bash 50 cycles' threads because - well simply because it's all been said. For a host of reasons, I intend to hang in there. In the meantime, thanks to those responsible for the forum and especially flecc whose freely given expertise I personally have found to be invaluable.

I've had an Etrex Vista for about 5 years now. Used to use it regularly hunting on horseback. When out with an unfamiliar pack and area it was easy to find my self maybe 10 miles from the horsebox in unfamiliar country with dusk falling. The Etrex was a godsend on such occasions. Like I said in my intro, I can't ride horses anymore but I do intend to use the Etrex when I get my Pro-Connect (yep - another one on order and waiting). I've got the Mapsource European Roads & Recreation Maps loaded and I always found them quite adequate. Also used to download my rambling routes onto a 'Memory Map Navigator' map on the PC as a historical record (never found a way of uploading the MM Nav maps to the Etrex unfortunately). A few points: 1. I found battery life to be a bit inadequate. I needed a spare set (2 a AA's rechargeable or alkeline) for a full day's riding (about 5 hours). 2. The facilities are comprehensive with a good full-function trip computer, Compass and altimeter linked to rate of climb/descent functions and easily zoomable map display. 3. The display is a bit small and the controls can be fiddly until you get thoroughly familiar with them 4. The unit is genuinely fully waterproof (I've had it sitting in a hunt coat pocket full of water and used in the foulest of weather on numerous occasions with no damage done). Do you know Where can I get a handlebar mount that is certain to fit and carry the unit securely?

I'm a dab hand at pig's years too yuh know - always making them with things - wife says so -especially when it comes to preparing food - oh dear.

Well, I posted it more as a bit of graveyard humour than with with intent to convey any serious message. Also, having been on the receiving end of animal-rights vigilantee's armed with cameras (not to mention noxious sprays and the odd pick-axe handle) for donkey's years, I too have a deep-seated aversion to self-appointed do-gooders. No doubt the doctor means well but then we all know what the road to hell is paved with don't we?

From sky news: Judging by the puffing and blowing he's clearly not on an e-bike But thought this might interest the forum anyway:

Fascinating thread. As I hinted in my intro post, I have spent more hours on horseback than I care to count, much of it thankfully over open country, but a lot on both rural and urban roads. Apart from the London commuting/bendy buses bits, substitute 'horse' for 'bike' and most of the comments here would be equally valid - especially the class-connotated ones. Prejudice has some very strange and extreme manifestations. So, since you cannot do much about it, maybe it's best to remain constantly aware of just how irrational some people can be, and be ready to cope optimally with those extremes without putting yourself (or anyone) else in danger. I think I may make quite a good cyclist actually:-))