The cyclist who expects traffic to slow down for them does us no credit. Either force them to take notice, demanding their attention, or else get completely out of their way, preferably onto the pavement.

 

I was right with you - until those last four words.

...does it tell you how to safely, make a right turn on a busy, narrow main road, with huge trucks thundering past at 30mph on both sides...the intersection may well have been clear 10 seconds sooner as you approached but all that can change in the blink of an eye.

....roads are a bloody nightmare and many motorists are not prepared to slow down for a cyclist.

 

True however too many of us are not prepared to dismount when at a hazardous crossing. Doesn't bother me however I do watch anxiously sometimes as riders weave and bob about in traffic. Why not interrupt your ride for 15 seconds or so? More of us may stay alive. Yes, we do have a right to ride on roads however we have a responsibility to do so in a way which accepts that some drivers quite clearly do not think we should be there.

Yes. Get off and push.

 

....If you think that standing with a bike in the middle of a busy road with huge trucks thundering past on either side a scant 2 feet away makes you feel safe, then obviously you have never been there or you have nerves of steel.

 

In the unfortunate likelyhood of an accident in these circumstances the response would be:

...."What on eath was this idiot doing standing in the middle of the road with a bike, we cannot blame the truck driver"

 

....occasionally one encounters a motorist with a touch of compassion...he's probably a cyclist......who'll take his foot off the accelerator for a nano second and flash his lights giving you the opportunity to cross.

 

Either force them to take notice, demanding their attention,

 

...do you not think that standing in the middle of the road with a bike, demands their attention ?

I understood 'get off and push' to mean dismount at the side of the road, stand with your bike on the pavement, and then cross when (and where) safe to do so.

 

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I understood 'get off and push' to mean dismount at the side of the road, stand with your bike on the pavement, and then cross when (and where) safe to do so.

Exactly so.

I recall the copper who instructed my primary class in Cycling Proficiency (who remembers that, eh?) said something about that. I suspect that was before 'commanding your lane' and all that which came later. Back then, you weren't taught to be a shrinking mouse, but to be aware that you would get squashed, squished and die very messily if you were stupid, to not put too fine a point on it.

I understood 'get off and push' to mean dismount at the side of the road, stand with your bike on the pavement, and then cross when (and where) safe to do so.

 

....you will recall that in my "example" when I was approaching my right turn, my exit was clear, this only changed as I was about to make my turn...vehicles travelling at 30mph close distances very quickly.

 

Are you suggesting that at every junction I should dismount and cross by foot ?

....possibly not such a bad idea but is that what you really do ? ...I don't believe it.

I could give you 100 instances where "should have" would be applicable but we don't live our lives retrospectively.

 

It is easy to be critical of a situation after the event but in practice it is not so straight foreward.

No matter what the traffic is, this is the recipe for right turning safely:

 

1) Have a mirror and use to to get the manouvre timing right.

 

2) Punch out a clear hand signal, arm straight out in a positive way. Your hand signal should not limply say, "please may I do this", it should say "This is what is going to happen!".

 

It's kept me safe for my lifetime, most of it in London boroughs.

....you will recall that in my "example" when I was approaching my right turn, my exit was clear, this only changed as I was about to make my turn...vehicles travelling at 30mph close distances very quickly.

 

Are you suggesting that at every junction I should dismount and cross by foot ?

....possibly not such a bad idea but is that what you really do ? ...I don't believe it.

I could give you 100 instances where "should have" would be applicable but we don't live our lives retrospectively.

 

It is easy to be critical of a situation after the event but in practice it is not so straight foreward.

If you cycle the route daily then you are cycling the wrong route. Google maps for at most 20 minutes and you can have a dozen other routes that avoid your "favourite" junctions.

 

I marked out 2 I'm not a huge fan of on the cycle from waterloo to camden town, the lower currently has roadworks so is a huge mess, the higher one is by massive underpass, hospital and euston station and bus stops are just 1 turn away. The other route goes via holborn but remains very straight after cycling in the wrong direction for a little bit.

 

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t171/pimptasticmofo/route1_zpsb93daeae.jpg

Protest Ride Russell Sq tomorrow 6:30pm

 

Anyone going to the Protest Ride at Russell Sq tomorrow, 6:30pm?

Info from London Cycling Campaign.

(Cyclist should to be careful in charge of 100kg 'vehicle', y

So Driver in 1000kg car will be 10 times more careful, y

And Trucker of 30,000kg will be 300 times more careful, y, how?

just a thought!) ... Mikey

....

 

Are you suggesting that at every junction I should dismount and cross by foot ?

 

Not at all. You asked in an earlier post if Cyclecraft explained how to cross safely; someone else said 'get off and push' or words to that effect. I gave my interpretation of what 'get off and push' meant to me - you clearly interptreted it differently.

 

....possibly not such a bad idea but is that what you really do ? ...I don't believe it.

 

Believe what you like. I wasn't telling you what I do, or would do in a similar situation.

Something I found on the interweb.

 

Cycling Street Smarts, left-hand drive version, Table of Contents

 

Maybe experienced riders could indicate whether the advice is valid or needs updating

I agree with Flecc on this one. I was driving (yes, in my car) into work a few weeks ago, waiting to turn right at a filter lane. Traffic coming in the opposite direction stopped when required and my lights turned to green. As an IAM member, I set off cautiously, making sure that no cyclists were coming up the road, hidden on the left hand side of the bus at the front of the queue. Suddenly, a cyclist travelling at a high speed shot across the junction - along the pavement, not on the road and across my path. Fortunately for him I was observant, braked and bibbed the horn. I was able to stop but he was going so fast he almost went over the handlebars into my path as he braked - he did, in fact, almost come off the bike.

 

Had this been a less observant driver, then this could have been a fatality, given the speed he was going. OK, then only he would have been hurt, but I would hate that to happen to me as a driver, even though I know there was nothing I could have done any different - but for the timing this could have a different ending, if for example he had been a second or two later. Lucky for him I am a cyclist and IAM trained!

Punch out a clear hand signal, arm straight out in a positive way. Your hand signal should not limply say, "please may I do this", it should say "This is what is going to happen!".

 

cheers Flecc...drivers in your neck of the woods may be more cosiderate, I can recall more than one incident where a hand signal was no guarantee of safe passage.

 

Just recently at that same junction, I had made the signal, replaced my hand back on the handlebars about to make my turn when a car shot past on my offside, at a far greater speed that the legal 30mph and clipped my mirror, a second sooner and he'd have got my hand ... a second later and he'd have got me.

I did actually, at that point, determine in future, to cross on foot.

....but as we all know... the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

I know a guy who has got rid of his bike...he was scared to ride it...say's he wasn't but he was.

Believe what you like. I wasn't telling you what I do, or would do in a similar situation.

 

...sorry Phil...may have offended you...not my intention...my apologies.

I know a guy who has got rid of his bike...he was scared to ride it...say's he wasn't but he was.

 

Just as an aside...when was it determined that cyclists do not have the right to safe passage ?

 

....they appear to have got it about right in Cambridge...why can't we do it everywhere ?

I was right with you - until those last four words.

 

If we're serious about reducing cycling injuries, we need better facilities.

 

But there are other things we have to do for ourselves - recognise that the only safe way to cross a busy junction is to manage the traffic behind us and force it to protect our back ... or pull over onto the pavement, get off and push across.

cheers Flecc...drivers in your neck of the woods may be more cosiderate, I can recall more than one incident where a hand signal was no guarantee of safe passage.

 

Just recently at that same junction, I had made the signal, replaced my hand back on the handlebars about to make my turn when a car shot past on my offside, at a far greater speed that the legal 30mph and clipped my mirror, a second sooner and he'd have got my hand ... a second later and he'd have got me.

 

What I've highlighted in bold italics is what I don't do. My arm once punched out resolutely stays outstretched during the turn, straight and horizontal with my finger pointing where I'm going. The message is clear, no compromise! As for drivers being more considerate in my London borough, no, they're no different from the ones you mention and only too ready to take advantage against a cyclist.

... I had made the signal, replaced my hand back on the handlebars about to make my turn when a car shot past on my offside ...

 

Frankly I'm not surprised, unless you were smack bang in the centre of the road and there was room for cars to pass on your left.

 

Certainly in this part of the world, most car drivers would take the fact that you had stopped signalling as meaning that you no longer intended to turn right.

My arm once punched out resolutely stays outstretched during the turn, straight and horizontal with my finger pointing where I'm going.

 

...Oh right I see....I cannot do that, I've tried but I cannot turn with only one hand on the bars.

...Oh right I see....I cannot do that, I've tried but I cannot turn with only one hand on the bars.

 

I've even modified one folder so that I can do that on it as well, fitting wider handlebars and cutting out some slop in the folding steerer tube, both for better stability. And my e-bikes have been either pedelec or left hand throttle to keep my right arm always free for signalling.

...anyone used any of these or something better ?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclamatic-Wireless-Remote-Control-Indicators/dp/B009M0DHRM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374223494&sr=8-1&keywords=indicators+for+bikes

...anyone used any of these or something better ?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclamatic-Wireless-Remote-Control-Indicators/dp/B009M0DHRM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374223494&sr=8-1&keywords=indicators+for+bikes

 

Maybe more effective.

 

Amazon.co.uk: high vis gloves

 

I personally wouldn't bet on any motorist seeing a bike light size indicator and telling which direction it is from any distance. To give a rough idea you are looking at a light tha isn't as wide as a single numberplate letter and is half as tall, a car indicator on the back lights is usually 4-5 times larger and a more powerful light. Get 2 bike lights and put them on and by a wall or something then walk back and be truthful with yourself about how well you can see them. Your arm is much larger than an indicator light or even an entire numberplate.

 

I put a yellow indicator light on a bike for you, that's about 2 cars traffic behind you.

 

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I wouldn't trust to motorists seeing any bike indicators, they are too central and often indistinct in bright daylight. They often don't even see us!

 

Brightly coloured gloves like those Clockwise mentions seem a good idea to accentuate hand signals. An LED arrow on the back of a glove for night use, switched on by a gravity switch when the arm was held straight out should do the trick for that after dark dangerous situation.

...sorry Phil...may have offended you...not my intention...my apologies.

 

No worries Mike. I was just trying to clarify what I'd said in my post - electronic medium is not easy for getting the 'tone' right...

....cheers Phil...be lucky