My Neo extrem was in for service so I asked to borrow one of their KTM panasonic direct drive machines as I liked what I knew about them, but have found very little information on the web. The manufacturers' website appears to be in German only. I tried the eRace P with 43cm frame as I am 170cm tall with short legs!

 

It was love at first pedel! I ended getting part exchange for my Neo and am now the proud owner of the KTM. The first one sold by this dealer. I can now start to add the the web users' knowledge, to help others.

 

The eRace P has off road 26in wheels. 47v battery with 250w direct drive rear hub motor. Brakeing regeneration which actually works, unlike the neo. It is a fine looking machine in black and orange. The battery fills most of the space below the crossbar. It can be charged on or off the machine with a solid looking sealed charger unit. The bike feels slightly lighter than my Neo and is well balanced.

 

The control panel is not removable. It is clear, backlit and detailed but set to German. The user manual is in German only. The dealer was unable to give me any useful instructuion either! I have now worked out how to change it to English.

 

Power settings are High, Standard, Eco, Auto, No Assist and 3 levels of regeneration. With the regeneration levels the motor generates power all the time as you move, giving you a workout, or providing constant downhill braking. It works up to 30Km/h and is really effective braking. Regeneration also works with gentle brake lever pressure.

 

The auto setting is interesting. It regulates the power level depending on your pedel pressure. Power is clearly shown on the LCD display. Going downhill it will automatically use the regeneration to hold your speed unless you pedel to switich it off. I have been happy to use Auto for most of the time so far.

 

The power is very smooth, responsive and impressively powerful. The unit is said to be rated at 600W peak. It gets up to 25Km/h very quickly and then gently eases off the power. 30 gears include long legged ones. I was able to keep accelerating to 30Km/h but the motor cuts out at the legal speed, unlike the Neo, and gradually unlike the Stork!

 

On a hill test where I have previously tried several other machines, the panasonic unit outshone anything I have tried before. It sped up the hill at 24Km/h with me adding very little effort. This was truly impressive. My friend on his LifeCycle Mountain Sport was left well behind.

 

The motor is not silent like the stork direct drive, but the whine is subdued and very much quieter than the Neo's planetary gear hub. It is also vibration free. The hydraulic brakes are powerful and the regeneration which starts smoothly with gentle brake pressure is easy to control. It does not work when the battery is above 80% charge, presumably to prevent battery overcharge damage. On hilly terain, you can regenerate going down a slope and the power will take up immediately when you stope braking and start pedeling again. There is no detectable drag from the motor on free wheeling. I have found the bike to be very easy to manouvre.

 

So far, I have little to critisise with this bike. It would be better if the control could be removed to prevent fiddling. This is a good feature of the Neo. My biggest gripe is that the manual is in German only, not helped by the dealer's lack of knowledge. Google says that the online 28 page manual is too large to translate.

 

I am happy to answer questions if I can and will update the thread when I have worked out some more about the control unit. Does anyone know how to reset the trip odometer?

 

The moral of this tale, be careful what you borrow when you take your bike in for a service. You may end up going home with a new bike. There will be a 'pre-loved' Neo Extrem for sale if you know where to look!

Thanks for this feedback. Whats the range like? A mountain bike with electrical assistance and a decent range is exactly what I want.

Too early to say much about real life range. Did about 20miles today. The battery went from 100% down to 73%. This was a mix of road and bike paths. I think it will be quite impressive.

Thanks for this feedback. Whats the range like? A mountain bike with electrical assistance and a decent range is exactly what I want.

 

Hi Morrison, I think we all need that too :o

 

MS.

I noticed there is no quick release on the rear wheel. Does it look easy to get the rear wheel off to fix punctures - removal of electrical apparatus? I guess this would be one of the things an english language instruction manual would be good for.

That's a really fantastic review. A company sales person couldn't have done a better job. I must check out where I might buy one of these machines if it's affordable for me.

 

Melissa

Great review, we have one of this bikes in stock and have to say I am very impressed. Agree regarding the instructions, I have pressed for English ones as it let's down a great bike.

Thanks for this feedback. Whats the range like? A mountain bike with electrical assistance and a decent range is exactly what I want.

 

Any bike has a fixed number of wHs of energy stored in the battery. You can add to that energy when riding by pedalling. On some bikes you have to pedal harder, so they go further. Other bikes can relieve you of having to pedal at all, so they don't go so far. Some bikes can assist you at a higher speed, so you use up more battery power. To choose an electric bike, you need to decide whether its power profile is comfortable for your pedalling, and whether it can take you at the speed you want to go. The difference in efficiency between all the different motors and systems is minimal, so if you need to travel a long way, choose a bike with a big battery.

 

I can build you a lightweight electric bike MTB that I guarantee a range of 100 miles with a 10aH battery if that's what you want, or you can pay an extra £9.99, and I'll guarantee 1000 miles range.

The review of the P650 (same bike with larger wheels) in the Electric Bike Buyer's Guide says that it "can get bogged down on really steep hills". This is of course the problem with all hub drives compared to crank drive bikes. Have you tried it up any 25% + hills? This is the first time I recall seeing a Panasonic hub motor, their crank drive motor being generally well regarded.

I noticed there is no quick release on the rear wheel. Does it look easy to get the rear wheel off to fix punctures - removal of electrical apparatus? I guess this would be one of the things an english language instruction manual would be good for.

 

The back wheel is held on with conventional looking nuts. The cables can be disconnected benieth a protective woven nylon cover. It looks like it should be very easy. The motor appears to be integrated. No visable separate torque sensor.

The review of the P650 (same bike with larger wheels) in the Electric Bike Buyer's Guide says that it "can get bogged down on really steep hills". This is of course the problem with all hub drives compared to crank drive bikes. Have you tried it up any 25% + hills? This is the first time I recall seeing a Panasonic hub motor, their crank drive motor being generally well regarded.

 

Yes I have tried it on steep slopes. I agree that power at low speed is less than crank drive. I assume that direct drive will also have less low speed torque than a geared hub system. It feels slower starting from stationary compared to the Neo because of this. More use of gears needed! I like the simplicity of the direct drive, less noise and hopefully less to wear and go wrong!

A quick and dirty way to translate is to open google translate and copy each page one at at time into the translate window, just gave it a quick test, page 1.

Congratulations

Congratulations on your decision to buy a product made ​​by KTM. we

are sure that your new pedelec your expectations in function, design, quality now and in the

Future will more than satisfy.

All Pedelecs KTM taking into account the latest production methods and

produces the highest quality materials and best components according to destination

equipped.

So that you experience with your new pedelec KTM driving pleasure, we would like to

Please read this manual carefully.

Please make sure that your new pedelec KTM completely assembled, adjusted and

was passed with all descriptions to you.

This manual is a supplement to KTM bike pass.

If after reading the manual have any questions, contact your KTMFachhändler.

Safety and behavior

- Please follow all national road laws and regulations.

- Make sure that frame size, and controls on your height

are matched.

- Before the trip, whether brakes, lights and other safety

Components are in working order and properly.

- You never driving at night without lights!

- Never ride for two on your bike (except for carrying a small child in a

special child seat).

- Please note that the driving behavior can evolve significantly under load.

- Enter always wear a helmet!

 

Page 2.

Drive system components and system affiliation

Description Picture

1

Panasonic Original Battery for downtube mounting

46.8 V / 8.8 Ah - ID System

Sanyo Li-Ion Technology

46.8 V / 8.8 Ah - 412Wh (3.6kg)

5 LED charge indicator on the battery

full charge in about 5 hours

at least 700 charge cycles possible

(see page 25 item 10)

 

Page 3

Description Picture

2

Original Battery for Panasonic Gepäckrägermontage

46.8 V / 8.8 Ah - ID System

5 LED charge indicator on the battery

Sanyo Li-Ion Technology

412Wh - Weight: 3,2 kg

full charge in about 5 hours

at least 700 charge cycles possible

(see page 25 item 10)

3

Rear wheel hub motor (CompactHubMotor)

with gearbox and generator function (recuperation)

46.8 V voltage level for maximum efficiency

Nominal power 250W

Nominal torque 15Nm/max. 40nm

Shimano freehub body for standard

Kasettenzahnkranz

Weight: 2,7 kg - diameter 155mm

Colors Black (except eRaceP 26 "- Orange)

4

LCD control panel

LCD display with backlight

3 levels of assistance 90/150/400%

Automatic level (automatic selection of the appropriate

Support level) - with automatic

generator function

3 generator stages 30/60/90% - 90% automatically

Generator operated at the hand brake lever

Charge indicator

Indicator function generator

Current level of support

Current support force

current speed

total kilometers

trip

Average speed

Estimated range in kilometers

Battery capacity in percent

5

Charger for 46.8 V Battery

Special charger for Panasonic

Li-Ion Batteries suitable; store both

built as well as developed

Battery possible; Charging current: 2A power consumption

Standymodus: 1.5 watts

Edited July 22, 201312 yr by Geebee

Thanks for the translation tip Geebee. I now know how to reset the tripometer!

I see that you can set the controller for different size wheels. If one was to select a larger wheel size, the bike would think you are going slower than you actually are. Some people may think of a reason to try that.......

Just a note regarding the Panasonic PCT hub motor. It is not a direct drive, there is reduction gearing within the hub. What is missing, is a freewheel clutch, thereby allowing regenerative braking. The reduction gear ratio is biased in favour of hill climbing.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7374/9343125886_7d478525a9_z.jpg

Nice colour!

does anyone know how this motor compares with d8veh's 8-Fun CST?

Just a note regarding the Panasonic PCT hub motor. It is not a direct drive, there is reduction gearing within the hub. What is missing, is a freewheel clutch, thereby allowing regenerative braking. The reduction gear ratio is biased in favour of hill climbing.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7374/9343125886_7d478525a9_z.jpg

 

Yes, I only realised this after translating the manual! It would explain why the motor is not silent, and is louder under high load

I became disappointed with hub motors after I damaged my controller and battery going over bumps at high speed. The sudden acceleration of the motor wheel going down the bumps turns the motor into an unwanted generator, damaging the electronics. Motors with regen may be the solution to this but they have drag.

I just could not figure out if the Panasonic hub motor represents progress in hub motors.

Hub motors evolve from direct drive (BionX) to gear drive with freewheel clutch (Bafang) - the Panasonic is in between. Like the Bafang, it has high torque at low speed. Like the BionX, it has regen braking. It's as small and light as the Bafang and more energy efficient than both previous generations and yet, in the back of my mind, something still feels wrong. Does it show any drag when pedalling without power?

does anyone know how this motor compares with d8veh's 8-Fun CST?

The 500w CST is massively more powerful.

. Motors with regen may be the solution to this but they have drag.

I just could not figure out if the Panasonic hub motor represents progress in hub motors.

Does it show any drag when pedalling without power?

I can not detect any drag while riding. I have not yet lifted the back wheel and given it a spin but will report back when I have

Eddie has pointed me to a new BikeTec Flyer road bike model with this Panasonic motor, this model called Vollblut (Thoroughbred), they've integrated the battery nicely with their trademark "S" bend downtube. Various versions from EU legal to 500 watts and fast:

 

[ATTACH]6379.vB[/ATTACH]

I can not detect any drag while riding. I have not yet lifted the back wheel and given it a spin but will report back when I have

 

Spin test result.

Not very scientific, but lifting the back wheel and giving it a good whiz with the hand. The wheel turns for about 1.5 revolutions. So not friction free but pretty impressive I think.

I wonder if the controller supplies enough power to counter the drag? as the level of drag from your spin test would be noticeable otherwise.

and how easy is it to ride unpowered?

and how easy is it to ride unpowered?

 

When you are used to power assistance, it is difficult to judge how easy it is with the umph turned off! I was late for an appointment yesterday so tried how fast I could go. I got to 26mph. The bike felt incredibly smooth and stable, even at that speed. I was very pleased to have good hydraulic brakes at the junction but the regen does not work over 20mph.

I rode 11 miles on tracks through woodland with tree roots and stony sections. Great fun and the bike performed well on auto setting almost throughout.