Is the price of a bosch 500w battery justified?

 

No as a Woosh 540 watt or 36 V, 15 Ah is £325 inc VAT and delivered

Very interesting post, thanks OP. It shows that the perception of value is highly variable, and depends on budget, utility, whether one needs to also run a car, whether it is additionally a pastime, etc.

 

I do enjoy being asked about prices, and the view from outsiders is that e-bikes are expensive. So I tell them:

• I am lucky enough not to need to also run a car
  
• When I did run a car, the LPG was over £100 per month, which would be roughly £200 per month, and of course that's without the cost of insurance, maintenance and duty
   
  
• Since I get nearly as much utility as a car owner, I am minded to spend a bit more - I guess the mean car price in the UK is a few grand at least?
  
• Quality pays for itself - in my experience a £2K bike costs less to run per month than a £1K bike, as long as it lasts twice as long (for me, they do)
   
  
• It's worth getting that two year guarantee
  
• If you have to spend more to get something that can be serviced in many shops, and not just one, do it
  
• Decent e-bikes are bloody good fun off-road, and no-one minds spending on hobbies
  

With that in mind, my KTM has been, flat-out, no doubts, absolutely splendid value. I bought it ex-demo/second-hand, but I'd have no qualms about spending the list price of £2,100 on it.

 

For exactly the same reasons, my next bike is likely to be in the £2-2.8K region, and I'll consider it money well spent all over again. Probably KTM again, or Scott for a change. After the £3K mark, I think one would need to be a downhill/technical enthusiast to justify it, but having tried some top tier bikes, I can see the attraction...

 

• I am lucky enough not to need to also run a car
  

If you compare the price of having an electric bike compared to the price of running a car, then yes, the return of investment will be very quick, even if the bike is expensive.

 

Running a car is indeed very expensive (between depreciation, insurance, fuel, tax, maintenance, MOT, parking, cleaning etc).

 

However, you are the exception: the vast majority of people will have an electric bike in addition to a car, in which case the comparison of price is more against a push bike, and an electric bike becomes more of a luxury item.

 

For people commuting to work (e.g. living in London), using an electric bike could be a great alternative, as public transports are expensive.

However, you then need a very reliable bike (given the high mileage likely to be made), good insurance (including theft and third-party), regular servicing (from a shop willing to accept electric bikes), and also using the bike everyday (summer and winter, rain etc.). In the ideal scenario, return on investment on an expensive bike would take many months of trouble-free cycling, probably exceeding the warranty period...

 

For people who have reduced mobility or are out of shape, and wouldn't cycle otherwise, an electric bike is a great way to get some mild exercise and fresh air. However, in that case, mileage is likely to be limited and a cheap bike could be sufficient.

 

Quality pays for itself - in my experience a £2K bike costs less to run per month than a £1K bike, as long as it lasts twice as long (for me, they do)

 

I am not convinced that's the case, but people spending more on an electric bike want to convince themselves that they are getting better quality. Same applies to cars, smart phones, clothing etc.

 

Electric bikes costing £1K will have standard components, in term of batteries, motors and controllers, easy to replace if broken, or easy to upgrade if better components are available.

 

It's possible to get a good quality push bike (with good quality mechanical components) for less than £400, and then upgrade it to an electric bike.

Edited July 12, 20169 yr by Tomtomato

I am not convinced that's the case [that a £2K bike will be cheaper to own in the long run, compared to a £1K bike]

 

With the bikes I've owned, I am well on track for it actually being the case. My statement can be backed up with figures, with a saving realisation kicking in after around two years. That said, I accept this is about statistics: is my poor luck with a cheaper bike representative of this category? I am quite happy to hear that people have had £500 e-bikes with a lower total cost of ownership (TCO).

 

I believe it has been said here that the quality in the sub-£1K market has increased over the past few years, so if someone was intent on buying from this segment I certainly would not advise them against it.

 

people spending more on an electric bike want to convince themselves that they are getting better quality.

 

I pay more as an insurance against failure, and yes, I do think quality improves, up to a point - perhaps below £2K? We have had stories here of people spending enormous sums on a well-regarded MTB manufacturer only to spend significant time off the road (and TCO can be bumped up by poor after-sales experience or warranty disputes, even in luxury price ranges).

 

and an electric bike becomes more of a luxury item

 

Yes, I accept the value dynamics change a great deal in this scenario. More people should try to give up their cars - it has become such a life staple, I am convinced there are people who could give them up, but don't.

If you look at "normal" bikes I think eBikes look like better and better value the more you spend.

I agree, I think with conventional bikes you can pay a fortune and not really get much out of it, with e bikes you know when you do spend more it's gonna be worth it.

I get enough smiles per mile to justify the cost of my bikes, and don't regret a second of it.

 

Evenings such as tonight are priceless.

 

 

I agree, Lovley!

One thing that has only been touched upon is, exactly what do you want to do with your bike?

If like me you only ride on smooth tarmac albeit with some steep Welsh hills, then you simply do not need a high end bike. High end components are wasted on you because of the good quality found at the cheaper end of the market compared to years ago.

If on the other hand you enjoy rough, off road tracks, jumps, and generally getting your bike all covered in mud, you will need a high end bike with high end components.

This means that there will be large range of prices.

Many buy bikes for a couple of hundred pounds and only ride it once..

Spending a couple of thousand is a great motivator..

Value is only perceived by the individual. I spent a lot on my ebike but think I got value. I also own motorcycles and they all are toys that give different aspects of pleasure / enjoyment.

Value is only perceived by the individual. I spent a lot on my ebike but think I got value. I also own motorcycles and they all are toys that give different aspects of pleasure / enjoyment.

 

What did you vote on this poll?

What did you vote on this poll?

Ah....

 

I could still stand by my vote though - they may well be overpriced but I think I got value when I bought mine.

 

I misread the poll though....

Judging by the theme developing on the results, many did.

Of course they're overpriced...... about £1K to £4K !!...... for a push bike with a leccy motor a bit more powerful than my cordless drill !!

How long is this early adopting gonna go on for ?

the motor itself does does not cost much more than a quality drill (£100 for a motor), then you have to add the gearbox, battery, controls, sensors etc.

If you take a typical £800 woosh Karoo, the mechanical bike costs about £300, battery £300, £100 for motor, £100 for controller, LCD display unit, sensors, throttle and cabling.

some may be overpriced but the vast majority of e-bikes are not.

the motor itself does does not cost much more than a quality drill (£100 for a motor), then you have to add the gearbox, battery, controls, sensors etc.

If you take a typical £800 woosh Karoo, the mechanical bike costs about £300, battery £300, £100 for motor, £100 for controller, LCD display unit, sensors, throttle and cabling.

some may be overpriced but the vast majority of e-bikes are not.

 

Without the Ekit, the Karoo is a no name Chinese made hybrid...... and i certainly wouldn't pay £300 for it.

I am sorry you are wrong YD.

Compared to my Giant costing me a little more than £300, yes, the frame of the Giant is better and that's about it. And the Giant was on special offers.

The Karoo has better brakes, Sram Avid discs front and rear against Giant's calipers, Karoo has puncture resistant CST Traveller tyres, the crankset on the Karoo is hell a lot better than the one that comes with my Giant, and so is the bottom bracket on the Karoo, proper GXP bottom bracket against the Giant square tapered. Even the pedals and the handlebars on the Karoo are better than those on my Giant. I can go on, but you already know where I am coming from.

Edited August 7, 20169 yr by trex

I am sorry you are wrong YD.

Compared to my Giant costing me a little more than £300, yes, the frame of the Giant is better and that's about it. And the Giant was on special offers.

The Karoo has better brakes, Sram Avid discs front and rear against Giant's calipers front and puncture resistant tyres, the crankset on the Karoo is hell a lot better than the one that comes with my Giant, and so is the bottom bracket on the Karoo, proper GXP bottom bracket against the Giant square tapered. Even the pedals and the handlebars on the Karoo are better than those on my Giant. I can go on, but you already know where I am coming from.

 

Oh perleeze...... Its a cheap ass Chinese bike, with a cheap ass hub motor kit on it. I'm sure Woosh and your association are making a very good profit on it.

So stop the salesmans BS and save it for the mug punters.

YD, please set aside your prejudices for a moment before jumping to conclusion. There are important components that are the foundation of reliability and performance and there is esthetics. The motor is Bafang, not a cheap brand. The controller is Lishui, again, the most reliable brand out there, the battery has samsung cells, the same you find in German bikes. That's for the electrics. For mechanical components, the bottom bracket, crankset, chain and rear cluster are all important. you may find a £300 bikes that look pretty but I challenge you to find me a £400 bike that has an 8-speed cassette, a GXP bottom bracket and an Ounce 245A crankset and Sram discs or similar quality.

YD, please set aside your prejudices for a moment before jumping to conclusion. There are important components that are the foundation of reliability and performance and there is esthetics. The motor is Bafang, not a cheap brand. The controller is Lishui, again, the most reliable brand out there, the battery has samsung cells, the same you find in German bikes. That's for the electrics. For mechanical components, the bottom bracket, crankset, chain and rear cluster are all important. you may find a £300 bikes that look pretty but I challenge you to find me a £400 bike that has an 8-speed cassette, a GXP bottom bracket and an Ounce 245A crankset and Sram discs or similar quality.

 

Just off the top of my head..... I could go in Halfords and buy a Voodoo Marasa, with hydraulic brakes and 9 speed cassette...... at £240.

Its leagues above your Karoo without the kit added to it.

 

And thats without spending a few days looking for deals all over the net.

let's check out your choice. The brakes on the Marasa are better but not more expensive. the rest are either equal or inferior: the BB is square tapered, crankset is a cheap stamp job, tyres are cheap, hubs are cheap. In fact, you could tell by the weight, the Marasa is heavier than the Karoo minus the electrics. Lastly, it's on special offers, its normal price is £350.

I could not find a bike with GXP or Hollowtech BB and forged crankset for less than £400 even on special offers.

i could build the hole thing with a cheap carbon frame and forks cheaper and with better parts tbh.

 

but if you are a dealer then you make more prophet in a 15 quid alu frame than a 150 quid carbon one from the same place.

 

any one can build one of these things and get a much better bike for there money if done diy but some just want the buy it ready made option with warranty.

 

its why this forum is here so if they want to pay for a bike with warranty from a dealer then that is what the extra is for as cheap parts will fail fast and then its up to the dealer to sort it out.

let's check out your choice. The brakes on the Marasa are better but not more expensive. the rest are either equal or inferior: the BB is square tapered, crankset is a cheap stamp job, tyres are cheap, hubs are cheap. In fact, you could tell by the weight, the Marasa is heavier than the Karoo minus the electrics. Lastly, it's on special offers, its normal price is £350.

I could not find a bike with GXP or Hollowtech BB and forged crankset for less than £400 even on special offers.

 

Oh dear, you're like a boxer on the ropes desperately trying to stay in the ring..

How about this with Nexus 8 speed hub at only 11.2 kilos

 

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/369669/products/marin-fairfax-sc2-ig-2016-hybrid-bike-black.aspx?awc=3395_1470614449_c9380e816adaa96cc623b62a1715eec8&referrer=affiliatewindow

Now, i dont mind dealers making a profit....... of course they're going to make a profit, they would last in business if they didn't.

But stop this pathetic hard done by crap,' we're cutting our mark up to to the bone' BS

Only idiots believe that rubbish.

YD, you have a fixed idea that anything put on a Chinese ebike is bound to be cheap. Although this is often seen, but not always. That's why I suggested that you set aside prejudices. Take German made CD motors. They have isis bottom bracket. That's no match for GXP, Hollotech and similar for durability and feel. You do know this. It's just an example to illustrate my point. Another point is cheap forks. Some people automatically assume that Chinese bikes have c**p forks. Tell that to DM @ Amps.

Oh dear, you're like a boxer on the ropes desperately trying to stay in the ring..

How about this with Nexus 8 speed hub at only 11.2 kilos

 

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/369669/products/marin-fairfax-sc2-ig-2016-hybrid-bike-black.aspx?awc=3395_1470614449_c9380e816adaa96cc623b62a1715eec8&referrer=affiliatewindow

 

that Marin is a nice example but I think it's end of line, on special offers normal price is £499 though. Still not better than the Karoo overall.