June 27, 20178 yr Here is another question: Bottle rack mount or pannier mount, which is the most popular? We are designing for bottle mount but have scope to have two versions if demand is there. I think the demand for your products will be principally from the corporate, people who want to run bike hires. There is no need to worry about the split between the two.
June 27, 20178 yr All of this is in early prototype stage so we have not certified it yet (we are focusing on the charger) but yes it will be EN 15194 when we finish. I think you're missing my point. I know for a fact that some test houses will not certify a 48v bike or battery to EN 15194 because it says "up to 48v", so they interpret that as an absolute maximum. That means that when you take your battery there, they won't give it a certificate. So, my question is: Did you already ask your test house if they will allow a 48v battery?
June 27, 20178 yr for me the fact that the battery has a long life re the number of charging cycles over a slight increase in weight would be ok. however your using 48v a lot of us run 36v ebikes so to use one of your batteries we might have to change contollers most of us would not know how to do this. also 340w battery at 48 v range I think would be poor? even if recharge is quick ,do I want to lug around a charger
June 27, 20178 yr I would like a battery that is half the current weight, can do 1500 charges before it becomes useless and most importantly is able to take me further, I can do 37 miles in a hilly area on full power, I would love to get 60 miles on full power, not really interested in faster charging. The last thing I need is faster charging, when I go out to cycle I go out just once in the day, charging when I come back over six hours is not a problem. An in frame battery as seen on my Oxygen bike is better.
June 27, 20178 yr A battery with a charger built in, and the option to download the usage data, health of the pack.
June 27, 20178 yr Author I think the demand for your products will be principally from the corporate, people who want to run bike hires. There is no need to worry about the split between the two. Yes, it is more to do with the initial configuration at this point.
June 27, 20178 yr Author I think you're missing my point. I know for a fact that some test houses will not certify a 48v bike or battery to EN 15194 because it says "up to 48v", so they interpret that as an absolute maximum. That means that when you take your battery there, they won't give it a certificate. So, my question is: Did you already ask your test house if they will allow a 48v battery? The test houses we have spoken to in the UK deal with 48v nominal, and as long as it is under 60v during peak charging. Not sure where these other testing houses are but they are mistaken.
June 27, 20178 yr Author for me the fact that the battery has a long life re the number of charging cycles over a slight increase in weight would be ok. however your using 48v a lot of us run 36v ebikes so to use one of your batteries we might have to change contollers most of us would not know how to do this. also 340w battery at 48 v range I think would be poor? even if recharge is quick ,do I want to lug around a charger We can configure our system to do 36v packs, the reason why we chose 48v is it is better efficiencies all around compared with 36v. A 360w pack at 36v will perform worse than a 360w 48v pack
June 27, 20178 yr Author I would like a battery that is half the current weight, can do 1500 charges before it becomes useless and most importantly is able to take me further, I can do 37 miles in a hilly area on full power, I would love to get 60 miles on full power, not really interested in faster charging. The last thing I need is faster charging, when I go out to cycle I go out just once in the day, charging when I come back over six hours is not a problem. An in frame battery as seen on my Oxygen bike is better. So this is unfortunately not for you my friend, if you are looking for a battery that is 1/2 the weight and twice the distance you are looking for a battery that is roughly 4x what is capable today, this is another decade away.
June 27, 20178 yr Author A battery with a charger built in, and the option to download the usage data, health of the pack. Our system logs charge data in the battery itself for diagnostics.
June 27, 20178 yr Our system logs charge data in the battery itself for diagnostics. Nice, now all you have to do is squeeze a charger in there. Nice work
June 27, 20178 yr 264WH is not enough for an Ebike. You need a minimum of 400Wh - ideally 500Wh. most importantly is able to take me further, I can do 37 miles in a hilly area on full power, I would love to get 60 miles on full power, not really interested in faster charging. The last thing I need is faster charging These two quotes are where it`s at in terms of what an ebike battery should be. Forget this faster charging malarkey, most ebikers want range. What`s the point in charging your 264Wh battery in 10 minutes when the bloomin thing will only take you 15 miles??! Sorry, i`m out as well
June 28, 20178 yr Forget this faster charging malarkey, most ebikers want range. No reason you can't have both. I'm currently charging a 2752kWh battery in around an hour. It could be charged even quicker, but my charger is already drawing 3000W from a single household socket, so it would require multiple phases for more power.
June 28, 20178 yr I think you're missing my point. I know for a fact that some test houses will not certify a 48v bike or battery to EN 15194 because it says "up to 48v", so they interpret that as an absolute maximum. That means that when you take your battery there, they won't give it a certificate. So, my question is: Did you already ask your test house if they will allow a 48v battery? I have not looked into this but I assume that it's possible to submit a test bike with a battery 50% charged.
June 28, 20178 yr I feel almost embarrassed at the tone and nature of some of the comments on this thread. I'm making a guess that one of the first things Inuell would have done before expending a lot of time, effort and money into this project was to make sure that what he was doing was going to gain certification. Maybe he called the 'test houses', explained the nature of his project and asked beforehand if a charging voltage of 57.6V would be acceptable for certification. Maybe he even went and had a meeting with them. Oh guess what? He did.
June 28, 20178 yr I feel almost embarrassed at the tone and nature of some of the comments on this thread. I'm making a guess that one of the first things Inuell would have done before expending a lot of time, effort and money into this project was to make sure that what he was doing was going to gain certification. Maybe he called the 'test houses', explained the nature of his project and asked beforehand if a charging voltage of 57.6V would be acceptable for certification. Maybe he even went and had a meeting with them. Oh guess what? He did. Imagine if he hadn't though... I'm pretty sure if that were the case he'd have been glad for the info.
June 28, 20178 yr inunell only makes the batteries and chargers. He does not have to apply for EN15194.
June 28, 20178 yr Imagine if he hadn't though... I'm pretty sure if that were the case he'd have been glad for the info. Quite so. It's not the fact that he was asked. Its a valid question to which he gave a detailed and informative reply which at the very least showed he knew about the certification requirements and had the subject well in hand. "We have been working with systems up to 60v for some time now, the CE and UL standard for high voltage is >60v DC so as long as you work below this during charging then you are fine. This applies the same for the EN 15194 standards as far as we have experienced." It's the fact he was then repeatedly and aggressively pursued further on the matter in an attempt to make him look stupid and incompetent that I find embarrassing.
June 28, 20178 yr It's the fact he was then repeatedly and aggressively pursued further on the matter in an attempt to make him look stupid and incompetent that I find embarrassing. I get regularly aggressively questioned by some members and never worry about that. manufacturers benefit from aggressive questioning.
June 28, 20178 yr I get regularly aggressively questioned by some members and never worry about that. manufacturers benefit from aggressive questioning. hehe I'll remember to ask you the same question 4 times in some future discussion
June 28, 20178 yr I've just read back over this thread and I missed some posts, so let me comment on them: I work a lot with various e-bike brands in the UK. More than one of them have asked their test houses if they would certify a bike with a 48v system. The answer was no. I also know that the KTM with the Panasonic hub motor has a standard 13s 48v battery, although they called it 47v. Presumably, it was certified somehow, but that's only an assumption. It now seems to have been dropped from the range and there are no other certified ebikes with a 48v motor that I know of. The reason I kept asking was that he didn't give a definitive answer. I wanted to know if he had had confirmation that a 48v system would be approved, but he didn't answer directly. Have a look around. Why are there no 48v bikes with EN 15194 certificates? Everybody knows that 48v is more efficient. Hello! The question is not whether anyone thinks that a 48v system is safe or whether it complies with any other standards. it's simply a question on how the test houses interpret the EN 15194 standard that says "up to 48v". I'm looking for confirmation that at least one has confirmed that a 48v system is OK. The next logical question is which one?
June 28, 20178 yr From EN 15194 "This European Standard specifies requirements and test methods for engine power management systems, electrical circuits including the charging system for the assessment of the design and assembly of electrically power assisted cycles and sub-assemblies for systems having a voltage up to and including 48 VDC or integrated a battery charger with a 230 V input." Which would make an 11S fully charged battery (46.2 V) the legal maximum. There is no mention of 48 V nominative or rated in the entire document. Which is to be contrasted with "maximum continuous rated power of 0,25 kW".
June 28, 20178 yr The OP might be referring to the new battery standard: BS EN 50604-1-2016 - 产业标准 - 道客巴巴
June 28, 20178 yr The OP might be referring to the new battery standard: BS EN 50604-1-2016 - 产业标准 - 道客巴巴 And the OP might think it's up to his competitors to do their own legwork.
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