Isn't it a bit poor form to slate a competitors product like that?

Isn't it a bit poor form to slate a competitors product like that?

 

It's not the first time Mr Ching has overstepped the mark in my view. Totally against the spirit of the forum:mad:

 

musicbooks

I had a test-ride on an X-byke back in July in Bath, and it was powered by a makeshift rectangular battery wound round with insulating tape. I was shown a (presumably empty) water-bottle-style shell which was the form that they told me would be used when the bike went on sale.

I queried the rather small size, and was told by Powabyke's MD that most people never utilised the full capacity of bigger batteries, and would be grateful instead for the reduced weight. I wonder if they based this research on users of this forum; I would imagine not!

 

To be fair to Mr. Ching (although I do think his comments are somewhat unethical), I did find the gear-shift a little awkward, especially in combination with the thumb-and-forefinger half-width throttle. Maybe as an ex-motorcyclist, I always find preferable a throttle control that takes up the whole width of the hand-grip.

 

But the bike did tackle those Bath hills with little problem...

It's not the first time Mr Ching has overstepped the mark in my view. Totally against the spirit of the forum:mad:

 

musicbooks

You are being too kind. Mr Ching is showing absurd bad manners. Is his product above criticism? I think not.

It has all low end components, and look at the handle bar assembly photo, the levers on the speed shifter would hit the throttle so they move the shifter about 2 cm away from it. One would need very long thumb and fingers to reach it. Horrible looking bike I must say. Hope the price justify it.

 

W W Ching

 

I'm new here so I don't know the history of Mr Ching but I totally agree with his comments about that bike, it looks awful & has really poor components fitted, for the price I would expect better components. Having said that as I am about to build my own electric MTB the Ezee kit is also being sold in the UK for a ridiculously overinflated price for a kit compared to other kits on the market.

 

Some will like it some will hate it but there is nothing wrong with saying so.

I'm new here so I don't know the history of Mr Ching but I totally agree with his comments about that bike, it looks awful & has really poor components fitted, for the price I would expect better components. Having said that as I am about to build my own electric MTB the Ezee kit is also being sold in the UK for a ridiculously overinflated price for a kit compared to other kits on the market.

 

Some will like it some will hate it but there is nothing wrong with saying so.

 

It is one thing for a customer with no agenda to criticise a product. It is quite another for the boss of another major e-bike company to publicly attack a rival's new product using highly emotive and negative language. Has he tried the bike.? What qualifies him to attcak the bike and Powabyke in this way? Frank and the team at Powabyke are exremely courteous, hard working and geneorous people, and Powabyke, I feel, are a credit to the e-bike business. Such a negative response is undignified and potentially very harmful to the industry.

 

BW

musicbooks

It is one thing for a customer with no agenda to criticise a product. It is quite another for the boss of another major e-bike company to publicly attack a rival's new product using highly emotive and negative language. Has he tried the bike.? What qualifies him to attcak the bike and Powabyke in this way? Frank and the team at Powabyke are exremely courteous, hard working and geneorous people, and Powabyke, I feel, are a credit to the e-bike business. Such a negative response is undignified and potentially very harmful to the industry.

 

BW

musicbooks

 

Absolutely agree. Although not a Powabyke owner, I've always been highly impressed with the way Frank Curran conducts himself on this forum and the helpful over-and-above-the-call-of-duty responses he gives to queries. If representative of the company as a whole (which he certainly seems to be) then they're an impressive outfit who deserve to do well. Likewise the Wisper chaps are a credit to their company, and have probably sold quite a few bikes on the strength of their customer support on this forum.

 

If I worked for Cyclepoint I'd be telling Mr Ching to kindly keep his opinions on rivals' bikes to himself for fear of losing business as a result.

 

(Anyway, if the shifter proves to be a problem for some people, I would have thought that it would be relatively easy to put a twist grip shifter on the left bar instead. Hardly a major issue.)

Edited November 1, 200817 yr by drgcb

Thank you all for your kind comments.

 

The electric bike market is still in its infancy, and as far as Im concerned the more electric bikes on the market the better. I feel there is nearly an electric bike to suit everyones pockets and mobility needs. Not everyone can afford to buy a £1400 electric bike which WILL have top of the range components, they will have ranges of 40 miles plus, they will have derestricted top end speeds to travel at 18-20mph and they will weigh in at sub 20kg in weight. Similarly not everyone is a strong rider so having a throttle option will suit others. Everyones needs are different, I for one have a small disability on my left hand so having a right hand throttle and shifter suits my needs.

 

Powabyke's new range of Xbykes are based on a hybrid style of bike. With feedback we have had from many of the 35000+ Powabyke owners in the UK we have found that only a small percentage of people used the full 30-45 mile range on the lead acid versions we produce with most only doing a maximum of 4-8 miles in a typical journey hence why we now have a battery that has a range of up to 10 miles in pure power* and 15-20 miles in PAS*. With all due respect, members on this forum are not your average ebiker and I feel this is not realised by a few.

 

I get on very well with "the competition" and often pass on referrals to them if I feel a Powabyke would not suit the needs of a person. I also know that "the competition" pass customers Powabyke's way if they feel a Powabyke would be more suitable. I think its important that people get the right bike for them as they will use their bikes and spread the word on how good ebikes are. It would be detrimental to the whole market if someone bought a bike that wasn't right, they would pass negative comments on to other potential ebikers and as a result would never buy an ebike for themselves ever again. If the bike is right, then they will be ebikers for life.

 

With Powabyke's setup of dealers nationwide we feel we have the right bikes and backup to provide a product to a mass market for a fair price.

 

These are my personal views from my 7 years at Powabyke and I hope by airing them not to have offended anyone in my comments.

 

Kind Regards

 

FrankC

Powabyke Ltd

Hear Hear Frank.

 

BW

musicbooks

 

With all due respect, members on this forum are not your average ebiker and I feel this is not realised by a few.

 

A point I've frequently made myself Frank, the great majority of e-bike sales being to people who use their bikes for shopping and local social trips. Most are unlikely to consider themselves enthusiasts or consider visiting a forum like this, so we are certainly not the mainstream. In fact this forum UK and foreign membership is less than 2% of the UK e-bike owning public

 

There's a parallel to this in computing, with over 30 million people using computers in the UK, but with not much more than half a million as members of computer forums.

.

A point I've frequently made myself Frank, the great majority of e-bike sales being to people who use their bikes for shopping and local social trips. Most are unlikely to consider themselves enthusiasts or consider visiting a forum like this, so we are certainly not the mainstream. In fact this forum UK and foreign membership is less than 2% of the UK e-bike owning public

 

There's a parallel to this in computing, with over 30 million people using computers in the UK, but with not much more than half a million as members of computer forums.

.

Tony, you sure you´ve got your numbers right? What´s the total membership of this forum? I recall reading that there were more than 1000 of us. That would mean that there are more than 50000 ebikers...? Sound a lot of ebikers to me.

Probably right, Poppy. Many of them never get used, of course!

Tony, you sure you´ve got your numbers right? What´s the total membership of this forum? I recall reading that there were more than 1000 of us. That would mean that there are more than 50000 ebikers...? Sound a lot of ebikers to me.

 

Probably nearer 100,000 e-bikers in the UK Poppy, believe it or not.

 

The market was roughly 20,000 a year for some years and is widely believed to have grown from that. Even if the bikes only last five years there will be at least 100,000 e-bikes here.

 

Have a look at the link below. You've probably never heard of this company or seen their bikes, but over several years they alone were bringing in and selling over 7000 e-bikes a year from just five shops.

 

Thompson Electric Bikes

 

That's still a drop in the ocean though, UK normal bike sales are 2 million a year so e-bikes are only 1%.

 

The forum currently has 1733 members of whom 1425 are considered active.

.

Edited November 1, 200817 yr by flecc

I've always been highly impressed with the way Frank Curran conducts himself on this forum and the helpful over-and-above-the-call-of-duty responses he gives to queries.

 

I certainly agree with this too!

 

Adressing Mr Ching's point directly, there's no doubt that Ezee bikes do have higher end components. I'm not convinced that they all add to the quality of the bike, however. I believe that, for most electric bike riders, the more basic bits would do just as well.

 

I've long thought that the strength of the Powabyke proposition - designing something to a price point where it will sell in volumes and getting the distribution and service right - mark it out as a more mature and professional business than most of its competitors. Powabyke clearly is not trying to make the best imaginable bike with the highest quality components for the sake of it; it's making something that does the job at a price a lot of people are willing to pay!

It has all low end components, and look at the handle bar assembly photo, the levers on the speed shifter would hit the throttle so they move the shifter about 2 cm away from it. One would need very long thumb and fingers to reach it. Horrible looking bike I must say. Hope the price justify it.

 

W W Ching

 

Are you a little jealous that this bike is lighter and sells for less than your own bikes,although i ride an ezee torq 2 myself and am very happy with it,your current offerings with restricted speeds offers nothing above your rivals,a premium price is attractive when the bike is one the fastest available,when restricted it looks poor value,imagine a bmw or mercedes being limited to the uk legal 70mph,who would buy one then.

Probably nearer 100,000 e-bikers in the UK Poppy, believe it or not.

 

The market was roughly 20,000 a year for some years and is widely believed to have grown from that. Even if the bikes only last five years there will be at least 100,000 e-bikes here.

 

Have a look at the link below. You've probably never heard of this company or seen their bikes, but over several years they alone were bringing in and selling over 7000 e-bikes a year from just five shops.

 

Thompson Electric Bikes

 

That's still a drop in the ocean though, UK normal bike sales are 2 million a year so e-bikes are only 1%.

 

The forum currently has 1733 members of whom 1425 are considered active.

.

Surprised by your data. I don´t think we reach 10000 here in Spain, never mind our proverbial beautiful weather.

I´ve looked up your link, and it has given me pause. If I´ve been complaining about my Tucano, and wishing for a more powerful Panasonic, I can´t imagine how plaintive I would be with one of those. How good can they be at -at least- half the price of the bikes we are discussing in this forum. Some of them are cheaper than a reasonable good push bike!

Looking at the last few post it is clear that Powabyke's have many happy customers so it's no surprise that the company is defended so well but remember it is a company who wants to make money so the more feedback they or any other company gets, good or bad, is a good thing for us, the customer.

 

I do not like the bike pictured, I don't like the look of it I don't think the components would last long & that is my opinion & valid view & that is why I am building my own e bike so I can custom build to suit me. The only bike I see coming close to having an acceptable level of good components is the one that is made in Winchester & is built around a Trek bike but again it's over a £1000.

 

It is nice to see that Powabykes has such great support from the makers but I am sure the makers will agree that any negative comments made about their bikes can only be constructive & will help any e bike company to move forward in an industry that is IMO not providing a quality alternative mode of transport at this time.

Surprised by your data. I don´t think we reach 10000 here in Spain, never mind our proverbial beautiful weather.

I´ve looked up your link, and it has given me pause. If I´ve been complaining about my Tucano, and wishing for a more powerful Panasonic, I can´t imagine how plaintive I would be with one of those. How good can they be at -at least- half the price of the bikes we are discussing in this forum. Some of them are cheaper than a reasonable good push bike!

 

Yes, they are what we refer to as "cheap and cheerful", but they're matched to the type of user who buys them. Those shopper style bikes are low geared, top motor speed about 13 mph (21 kph) and the rider gearing is so low it's only practical to pedal to about 8 mph. Therefore they do what's wanted, allow virtually all trips without pedalling and with reasonable hill climbing. As the boss of Thompsons says, "Our customers won't pedal".

 

This is where the bulk of the e-bike market is, and it's where the bulk of further potential is too. Not quality e-bikes for cyclists and enthusiasts but cheap utility transport for social and domestic purposes, shopping, visiting friends, going to the library etc.

 

At these sort of prices many they've sold have been impulse purchases from those five shops, and it's only recently that they've started selling on the internet. Selling through shops whose main business isn't bikes is the way to go, and it's the way that the Tesco supermarket has taken with their cheap Meercat Metro e-bike. It's no use trying to popularise these e-bikes through cycle shops when the bulk of the public don't go near them, they have to be sold where they do go shopping at prices that enable people to make a snap decision.

 

That's how Thompsons have shifted so many thousands.

.

It has all low end components, and look at the handle bar assembly photo, the levers on the speed shifter would hit the throttle so they move the shifter about 2 cm away from it. One would need very long thumb and fingers to reach it. Horrible looking bike I must say. Hope the price justify it.

 

W W Ching

 

whilst I haven't been over complimentary about the x6, mainly because I was looking forward to it so much, but feel let down by the necessary battery change, I think it's a bit rich from Ezee bike provider to start on about the looks. The only reasonably decent looking bike they do (which looks like a normal bike ) is the torq and even that, with it's large battery is looking very outdated.

...I cannot understand all the criticism of the battery on the X-bike :

Just what is wrong with it ?

Like i've said...I have a bag that fixes to my handlebars into which the battery fits and I take it away when I lock up my bike :

 

However for those who are not happy, would it be feasible to unclip the battery lead, insert the lead through a hole in the rear of a rack bag and plug into the battery carried in the rack bag:

 

...a decent bag costing £20 could easily carry 2 batteries and if it were made removeable, just unplug and go.

 

.....Mike

I think a lot of people are disappointed that the x-bikes don't have the same style battery as the Cytronex, Mike. I know it was me that coined the term 'rocket launcher' and Frank and the Powabyke boys would probably like to see me swinging from a gibbet for that, but, like you, I'm really not that bothered by it. I don't care if people know I'm riding an electic bike. The reason I'm going for an x-bike is because it looks like a normal bike and I can (just about) afford it. Some of the e-bike designs I've seen amaze me in their wackiness. I don't want wacky, I want practical.

...I cannot understand all the criticism of the battery on the X-bike :

Just what is wrong with it ?

.....Mike

 

I think the problem is that if you're going to have a battery pretending to be a water bottle it should look like a water bottle or at least a thermos flask. Otherwise what's the point.

 

Actually bottle batteries have their merits. The centre of gravity is a bit lower and when cycling the battery is concealed by the cyclists legs (thus adding to the illusion that you're not "cheating" and riding a normal bike ). Also good for those of us that really don't like adding racks and panniers.

Chief eZee Operator

 

the Ezee kit is also being sold in the UK for a ridiculously overinflated price for a kit compared to other kits on the market.

 

.

 

OK, does every bike on the market has the same performance and quality and the same price.

 

Check if you are getting the same stuiff ?

1) Brushless planetary gear motor with 36 N-m at 135 rpm max. at 20 amps.

This goes with the capability of the controller.

And all the precision components, seals, and etc that is in there ?

And weighs 3.5 kgs ?

2) 37V 10Ah Lithium battery with micro-processor for continuous balancing

of cells, and UL grade material for casing.

3) Very high quality pannier bag for battery holding, it took us a lot of efforts

and corrections to iron out the buys even for a bag.

4) High quality charger or cheap charger ?

5) Compatibility for disc brakes ?

6) Stainless steel spokes, Weinman rigida rims, Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres?7) Tektro lever with electrical cutoff with hall sensor ?

 

You are NOT getting the same thing for a cheap kit, PLEASE.

 

Thank you.

 

W W Ching

Chief eZee Operator

 

I think it's a bit rich from Ezee bike provider to start on about the looks. The only reasonably decent looking bike they do (which looks like a normal bike ) is the torq and even that, with it's large battery is looking very outdated.

 

I have noted a very specific fault, that is the shifter does not fit with the throttle on the same side of the handle bar assembly, they moved it 2 sc\\cm away that makes the shifting particlularly awkward to reach.

 

We have an order for 2000 units of Sprints for TCS in Switzerland

( The AA counterpart ) for 2009, that will be distributed throughout Switzerland after a very successful trial run in Geneve this year. You think our eZee Sprint don't like a normal bike and the battery is large and outdated, you are probably not aware that we have a 37V10Ah Li+polymer pack there vs 26 V in other bikes with the small battery you have seen.

 

And yes, we are already working on reducing the size of the box which was originally designed for NiMH battery.

 

All the Best

 

W W Ching

Chief eZee Operator

 

It's not the first time Mr Ching has overstepped the mark in my view. Totally against the spirit of the forum:mad:

 

musicbooks

 

I think the forum would allow one to express his opinion that is back up with facts, why have I overstepped ?

 

Beside the akward position of the shifter, there is this akward rocket launcher for the battery, there is no chain guard, and the front hub motor axle length is oversize neccesitate a oversize ( length between the drop out is not 100 mm standard) front fork that is not standard. I could go on, if you need more facts why I think it looks terrible. I design and make electric bikes which is sold in South Africa to NZ to Alaska and to Finland beside the more sophisticated places like London and New York, so I know what I am talking about, Thank You.

 

W W Ching