Hi Musicbooks

 

Have you done the diagnostic capacity test? I couldn't work out from your post if you had or not.

 

Just to remind you in case you have not done the test, this is what I believe is the correct procedure:

 

1) Make sure the battery is fully charged. (Don't know if this makes any difference, but apparently it is what we should be doing.)

 

2) Press and HOLD in the battery test button in.

 

3) Initially the LEDs will illuminate to indicate the charge status. (KEEP HOLDING THE BUTTON IN)

 

4) All the LEDs will go out momentarily and will then illuminate again after about 10 seconds of sustained button pressing. If the battery is in good condition all 5 should light up. This second display of LEDs is not showing charge status, but battery capacity. I believe that each LED represents 2 Amp Hours. 5 LEDs being 10 Amp Hours, anything less indicating a reduction in battery capacity (eg 3 LEDs = 6 Amp Hour)

 

Sorry if you already knew this.

 

ps. I have had a replacement battery under warranty and this new one behaves in a very strange way compared to the original.

 

On a full charge, the bike will travel 12 miles before the first LED goes out on the handlebar indicator. The second one is out within 4 miles of the first and the final LED is flashing at 1 Hz before reaching 20 miles. The bike will continue to operate on 1 flashing LED to around the 40 mile mark. That is 50 % of the power being provided whilst one LED is flashing.

 

I found this out whilst doing the two conditioning runs on the new battery. I have not discharged it so completely again, but on my 18 mile commute things seem to be following a similar pattern. I'm not too worried as the battery gives me that range that I expect and the above test indicates 10 Amp Hour.

 

I just thought I would mention this as your discharge profile might be similar to mine and hopefully you will have nothing to worry about.

 

(The bike is a Pro Connect with the standard 23 tooth sprocket and always used in medium power setting.)

 

Tom

Edited December 17, 200817 yr by tillson

Tom, it may have been an overload due to the climb causing a safety restriction in the battery management system, this more likely at lower winter temperatures which impair the battery efficiency.

 

That said, these battery meter systems are not particularly accurate and can do odd things at times. They work by measuring minute changes in voltage and to do that the circuit has to be an extremely sensitive one. It follows that a very small irregular variation in the supply can cause an unduly large indication on the meter.

 

These same metering inaccuracies used to crop up on the earlier Panasonic systems which used NiMh batteries, the cause again being the meter circuit high sensitivity rather than serious faults.

.

Thanks Flecc. It could well be what you are suggesting. I'm not too worried about my new battery because it is delivering what I expect in terms of range on a standard setup and the diagnostic is indicating that all is well.

 

Hopefully, the same will apply to Musicbooks' situation.

 

Regards

 

Tom

Tom, it may have been an overload due to the climb causing a safety restriction in the battery management system, this more likely at lower winter temperatures which impair the battery efficiency.

 

That said, these battery meter systems are not particularly accurate and can do odd things at times. They work by measuring minute changes in voltage and to do that the circuit has to be an extremely sensitive one. It follows that a very small irregular variation in the supply can cause an unduly large indication on the meter.

 

These same metering inaccuracies used to crop up on the earlier Panasonic systems which used NiMh batteries, the cause again being the meter circuit high sensitivity rather than serious faults.

.

 

Thanks Tony,

Sound advice as ever.. I will monitor tonight again and over the next few days, and see what happens.

 

Thanks Tom too for your advice on checking battery capacity.

 

Best wishes,

Tom

musicbooks

After a recharge and another day's commute, all seems well again with the battery. I ran a systems check and all cells fully functioning.

 

Flecc, your diagnosis would appear to be correct ( strange that;) )

 

bw

musicbooks

After a recharge and another day's commute, all seems well again with the battery. I ran a systems check and all cells fully functioning.

 

Flecc, your diagnosis would appear to be correct ( strange that;) )

 

bw

musicbooks

 

. Funny old things batteries, especially in the cold, and the meters that purport to say what's in them are often even more odd. Once used to them, on my bikes I always ignore any meters fitted, use the computer trip recorder at each charge and go by mileage covered.

.

Thanks Tony,

I'll keep an eye on it though and report any further strange goings on..

 

bw

Tom

My battery seems to have settled down now and the discharge is much more linear. This seems to have coincided with the weather turning milder around here. It was +9 degrees on my way to work and +7 on the way home last night. The battery is now behaving as it did in July when the bike was new

My battery seems to have settled down now and the discharge is much more linear. This seems to have coincided with the weather turning milder around here. It was +9 degrees on my way to work and +7 on the way home last night. The battery is now behaving as it did in July when the bike was new

 

I'm not surprised. As I've often remarked, batteries are chemical devices and lab practice shows what that means. We often warm test tubes over Bunsen burners to achieve chemical activity, but never plunge them into iced water for the same ends. Essentially batteries desire 20 to 30 degrees C for optimum working efficiency, and anything approaching zero degrees is very bad news indeed.

.

Pro Connect Battery

 

Just to let the forum know that the faulty battery I had was replaced by 50C within days of them receiving it.

Just to let the forum know that the faulty battery I had was replaced by 50C within days of them receiving it.

 

Thats good news.

Did you have another bike to use?

When my bike was in for repair I didnt know how much I missed it.

I actually hated going to work in the car for the week.

Its amazing how the bike gives you a buzz.

 

Is the new battery OK?

 

Regards Bob.

Thats good news.

Did you have another bike to use?

When my bike was in for repair I didnt know how much I missed it.

I actually hated going to work in the car for the week.

Its amazing how the bike gives you a buzz.

 

Is the new battery OK?

 

Regards Bob.

 

Yes, I had to get out my 3 year old Giant Lafree Twist ST. Charged the battery and it was up and running without any problems after standing idle for the past 5 months. It certainly was (still is) a classic bike and oozes quality. It is a pity Giant didn't develop it along the lines of the Kalkoffs - I'm sure they would have had a winner.

 

I will report on the new battery over the next five or six months to see it doesn't go the same way as the origional.

Oh sh!t. My second battery is on the way out. I religiously ride the same route to and from work every day. My first battery lost over 20% of its capacity in fewer than four months of usage and was replaced under warranty by 50 Cycles without any problems.

 

The bike (a Pro C) is now just under 6 months old and the replacement battery has followed exactly the same capacity loss profile as the first. I have been watching the charge indicator lights go out earlier and earlier on the route that I use. Tonight, the outside air temperature is higher than it has been for a few days (+4), but the battery was nearly exhausted when I arrived home. I have been getting home with two out of the five battery lights illuminated a while back whilst riding in temperatures as low as minus four. According to what I read on here, because the temperature is higher today (+4), the battery should be performing better than it did when it was minus 4. The reverse is true, I am actually getting less range.

 

I have carried out the battery diagnostic check and it is indicating that the battery has lost over 20% of its capacity. This is really worrying me. I was prepared to give the first battery the benefit of the doubt but I am beginning to think that this is how these batteries are. About a 20% capacity loss per 700 miles. At £300 a shot this is not a cheap way to get around. This just isn't viable once the guarantee runs out.

 

I really do hope that I have just picked up a couple of rouge batteries, but I must say that I am now having doubts.

 

I will call 50 C tomorrow. It looks like another haul down to Loughborough or a trip to the post office and a few days in the car for me.

Sorry to hear this tillson, but it seems to be an exceptional coincidence, judging by the many Agattu and Pro Connect bikes used for commuting and other daily use, often on quite high mileages. These same batteries are used on the more powerful high speed versions by BikeTech and now by the similar Pro Connect S, so they should withstand hard work.

 

Hopefully you won't have to wait long for a replacement and that will break the mould for you.

.

Thanks for the reassurance Flecc. I know these batteries are used in a growing number of applications so I am clinging to the notion that if they were no good, their usage would be shrinking not growing. I am just really disheartened that this new battery has failed in exactly the same manner as the first.

 

Right from the outset I had a feeling that this would happen. I have not been 100% happy with the replacement battery from day one. It behaved very strangely to begin with, settled down for a while and then commenced the depressing gradual loss of capacity. Oh well third battery lucky!

Dont suppose it'll make you feel any better Tillson, but you're not alone. Just done the diagnostic on my replacement battery and it's at 80%. 1st one lasted 440 miles and 3 1/2 months, second one 230 miles and 2 1/2 months. I was feeling quite sanguine about it as I'd just ordered a second battery to extend range. So I thought I'd not be off the road, but Scott has asked for charger back as well . Makes sense though as it's such an unusual occurrence.

 

I'm keeping my chin up with the thought that it does seem to be a rare happening, as of course there's all those other Panasonic system bikes, as well as the Kalkhoff, and I'm sure if there was a generic problem it would be showing up across other makes too.

Well I'm off to 50C tomorrow to pick up battery number 3. They were very obliging and offered a replacement, again without hesitation. They also reiterated that out of the vast number sold globally and in the UK, the problems reported were minimal.

 

I must just be really really really unlucky. I just hope I'm not really really really really unlucky.

 

Edit

 

Has someone changed the title of the thread? I am sure that it was called More Agattu Batery Problems. Perhaps if the name is to change, "Panasonic Battery Problems" might be more appropriate?

Edited January 8, 200917 yr by tillson

Yes, it has been changed, presumably because of a representation made on the grounds that it was unfair to have such a specific criticism of one model from one brand.

 

I agree that the term Panasonic would have been better since the same battery is common to no less than 10 makes now.

.

Edited January 9, 200917 yr by flecc

Well I’m back on the road again less than 24 hours after informing 50C of the problems that I have been experiencing. It is a little frustrating, but these things happen from time to time and I think that I have just been a little unlucky with this bike. Hopefully it has been remedied this time.

 

I think that it is important to put this problem into context for the benefit of anyone dropping across this thread without knowing the background to it. 50 Cycles tell me that they have sold well over a thousand bikes with this type of battery fitted. They have had to return six batteries or less than 0.5% of the total amount sold. Based on these statistics, I am reassured. Coincidently, the batteries arrive in a box of six, so hopefully it was just a bad box of batteries and they have all been identified now.

 

I think that it is also fair to point out that this seemingly very small problem is not exclusively a Kalkhoff or 50 C thing. The problem that I have experienced relates only to the Panasonic battery and this is used by other manufacturers. 50C say that Panasonic are experiencing negligible battery returns in terms of total global sales and are demonstrating their confidence with the 2 year guarantee which is still one of the best available.

 

As far as the bike is concerned, I think that it is an excellent product.

 

Without wishing to sound too gushing and credit being due et cetera, I would like to say that 50 Cycles response to this battery problem has been absolutely first class. They have without exception, taken responsibility for the problem and sorted it out with the minimum disruption to me. If the best time to make an assessment of customer service is at times of trouble, then as far as I am concerned 50 Cycles deserve much credit.

 

Thanks Chaps!

50 Cycles tell me that they have sold well over a thousand bikes with this type of battery fitted. They have had to return six batteries or less than 0.5% of the total amount sold.

 

Hi,

 

I'm pleased that 50 Cycles have got you sorted and hope that you will have good success with the new battery. I think there must be about 6 people on this furum who have returned batteries. Given that stated failure rate, you are a have odds a little under 28000 to 1 to get 2 duds in a row if my school maths serves me correctly. I should buy a lottery ticket this weekend.

 

Worst case, if the batteries are unreliable and you get replacments under warranty for the first 2 years its not so bad. After 2 years, if you need to buy a replacment does that also come with a 2 year warranty? If the warranties continue to be honoured and in a worse case scenario you would then only need to buy a battery every 2 years and that is the life of most batteries anyways.

 

Given the faiure rate you are experiencing that would be a new battery every 3 weeks for me

 

Cheers, BM.

Agattu problems

 

Hi everybody

I am also only getting four lights on the battery diagnostic.Although I have had the bike about four months now it has only done about 100 miles due to the problems I had in the first few months.I won't go into the full saga of the problems with the bike and getting them rectified but it ended up with my requesting a refund as I was not happy with the bike or the service,two members of staff there agreed with this and the bike was packed up and returned.I rang a few days later and was told the bike had been inspected and was unmarked and in a saleable condition, it was all sorted out and I would receive a cheque in a few days time.I waited nearly two weeks but heard nothing so I phoned to enquire what was happening,it turned out that they had changed their mind and decided I would not now get a refund but they had not bothered to tell me.So they now had my money and the bike!.When I complained I was told I was being paranoid and would have to accept the bike back.In fairness I must say that in the main the people I dealt with were polite, and judging by lots of other messages I have read everyone else seems delighted with their agattus and the excellent service they have received from 50cycles.So as I am probably in a minority of one my experience should perhaps be considered a mere glitch in an otherwise exemplary service.So I shall try to sort out my battery and live in harmony with my Agattu.

Regards

Styx

Hello Styx.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you posted something about your battery on the 50cycles forum? There was a short thread running on there about a battery but the thread has either been removed or I am being a dumbo. I can't find it anymore and I can't remember the name of the originator. Was it you?

Hi

 

I cannot believe this today, I lost my wheel cap and 50cycles sent me one out yesterday and it was in today.

 

Sound like a funny story stylx do not quite understand what you mean, I am sure you will enjoy your bike but it is not a mountain bike.

 

thx

 

Bob

Hi

 

I cannot believe this today, I lost my wheel cap and 50cycles sent me one out yesterday and it was in today.

 

Sound like a funny story stylx do not quite understand what you mean, I am sure you will enjoy your bike but it is not a mountain bike.

 

thx

 

Bob

 

Hi wotwozere. I don't really know what you mean by a funny story or by your reference to a mountain bike!! what's that all about.And what's the connection with your wheel cap?.

 

Hi Tillson. No I have never posted on the 50cycles forum and this is the first problem I have had with the battery.I was making the point that the bike had only done about 100 miles because of the problems I outlined and this seemed very early to be having problems with the battery.

styx

styx styx is offline

Junior Member

 

Posts: 3

Default Agattu throttle

As I live in a rural area there are plenty of shortcuts linking various roads but although they were ok on my mountain bike they are too rough to ride an Agattu along.

 

Bob

 

Hi Bob

 

This is what I meant by mountain bikes and the cap where me pump goes went missing young kids down bargain booze i think on the estate up the road.

 

Sounded like a funny a story that you sent a bike back.

 

 

 

thx

 

Bob