Hi all, as you know I try and keep everyone on Pedelecs a little ahead of the curve on our developments.

 

The new Tailwind and Tailwind C will be here by the summer.

 

They both have a choice of 360 or 540Wh in frame batteries and run on the fantastic new AKM power unit.

 

The Tailwind has an aluminium frame, 27.5” 2.2” tyres and can be supplied in four configurations. Commute, Commute Comfort, eMTB and Adventure.

 

Tailwind Adventure with sus forks

 

The Tailwind C has a carbon frame and forks, weighs in at a tad over 14kg and sports C700 with 1.95” tyres.

 

Tailwind C

 

I rode them both last week in Portugal. They are both astonishingly good although I am a bit biased!!

 

Better images coming soon!!

 

All the best, David

Edited December 13, 20214 yr by Wisper Bikes

This is using a KTM rear hub motor ? (if so it looks like a small motor in size looking at the pics). Whats the spec on the motor ? Thanks

The Tailwind has an aluminium frame, 27.5” 2.2” tyres and can be supplied in four configurations. Commute, Commute Comfort, eMTB and Adventure.

 

[ATTACH=full]44997[/ATTACH]Tailwind Adventure with sus forks

 

 

Do those weigh in at around 24kg? I like that those don't obviously look like pedelecs. A big "Wisper" logo would give the game away. I'd love to see more bikes offered with high visibility dayglow reflective yellow/silver/neon (orange/green) paint, as options.

 

I'd be very interested to know what specific type of foam you use, to protect the batteries inside the frames? How many years of effective shock absorption, do you expect that foam will provide?

Edited December 13, 20214 yr by guerney

This is using a KTM rear hub motor ? (if so it looks like a small motor in size looking at the pics). Whats the spec on the motor ? Thanks

 

Sorry that was a Typo! I meant AKM. Its the same motor as on the Wayfarer but 36V not 43V. It develops 45Nm so equivalent to a 90Nm mid drive. The controller is sine wave and the bike utilises a torque sensor in the BB.

Do those weigh in at around 24kg? I like that those don't obviously look like pedelecs. A big "Wisper" logo would give the game away. I'd love to see more bikes offered with high visibility dayglow reflective yellow/silver/neon (orange/green) paint, as options.

 

I'd be very interested to know what specific type of foam you use, to protect the batteries inside the frames? How many years of effective shock absorption, do you expect that foam will provide?

 

The Tailwind weighs in at just over 17kg stripped down. With sus forks, alloy mudguards, off road tyres, 540Wh battery etc it’s just over 23Kg

Love the Tailwind C - carbon all round is very impressive. A nice step forward!

 

A couple of questions:

- does it have mudguard & rack eyelets?

- the battery looks removable - correct?

Love the Tailwind C - carbon all round is very impressive. A nice step forward!

 

A couple of questions:

- does it have mudguard & rack eyelets?

- the battery looks removable - correct?

 

Hi Richtea,

 

Thanks we love the bike. It does have eyelets for rack and mudguards and the battery is removable, unlock and it pops up so it can easily be lifted out, just like on our Wayfarers.

 

All the best, David

Sorry that was a Typo! I meant AKM. Its the same motor as on the Wayfarer but 36V not 43V. It develops 45Nm so equivalent to a 90Nm mid drive. The controller is sine wave and the bike utilises a torque sensor in the BB.

 

Does it only come with a torque sensor? Or, will you be doing them with a pedal sensor system as well?

Does it only come with a torque sensor? Or, will you be doing them with a pedal sensor system as well?

 

Hi Jim, it’s a torque/cadence system combined.

 

All the best, David

Sorry that was a Typo! I meant AKM. Its the same motor as on the Wayfarer but 36V not 43V. It develops 45Nm so equivalent to a 90Nm mid drive. The controller is sine wave and the bike utilises a torque sensor in the BB.

45Nm hub equivalent to 90Nm mid drive ? Be interested in the logic of that as my Carrera Suntour HESC 50Nm hub drive bike doesn't feel as powerful as my Bafang BBS01 250w 80Nm mid drive..

just to add the Carbon bike looks mint

45Nm hub equivalent to 90Nm mid drive ? Be interested in the logic of that as my Carrera Suntour HESC 50Nm hub drive bike doesn't feel as powerful as my Bafang BBS01 250w 80Nm mid drive..

 

Hi Egroover, I’ll send over the physics diagram tomorrow. Much like our Wayfarers, the 50Nm hub drive has about the same power as the 100Nm mid drive. However the mid drive is better for hill climbing as the power goes through the drive train. The hub drive is more efficient.

just to add the Carbon bike looks mint

 

thanks!!

45Nm hub equivalent to 90Nm mid drive ? Be interested in the logic of that as my Carrera Suntour HESC 50Nm hub drive bike doesn't feel as powerful as my Bafang BBS01 250w 80Nm mid drive..

Think about it this way: the mid-drive is like driving a car with full use of the gearbox. The hub drive is like the same car, but you only use third gear. So at low speeds and on slow hills it does not feel so powerful, even though it is the same engine.

 

The hub drive is more efficient only when it gets to its comfortable speed range. The mid-drive has lower peak efficiency because of the extra levels of gearing and the chain, but it maintains that efficiency over the entire speed range by use of the gears. Just like the car.

 

If only mid-drives could do regeneration!

As promised....

 

As we have both 100Nm mid motors and 50Nm hub motors fitted to the almost exactly the same bikes we have tested them both and we know this to be pretty well correct.

 

All the best, David

 

Edited December 17, 20214 yr by Wisper Bikes

As promised....

 

As we have both 100Nm mid motors and 50Nm hub motors fitted to the almost exactly the same bikes we have tested them both and we know this to be pretty well correct.

 

All the best, David

 

[ATTACH type=full" alt="45021]45021[/ATTACH]

And in other gears things look a bit different!

 

That example 70Nm motor with a 34T chainring and an MTB cassette with 42T bottom gear will give 86Nm at the hub.

 

Horses for courses!

You are absolutely correct Matthew.

 

We can confirm that like for like the motors have practically the same torque. There is almost no difference in power between our 50Nm hub motor and our 100Nm mid motor at the motor. The Wisper Wayfarer mid drive is better for climbing steep hills and the hub drive is better for around town, and of course the hub drive is more efficient, quieter (for the rider) and does not wear the chain drive as badly.

 

As you say, horses for courses, neither one is better than the other, it totally depends on how and where you want to ride.

 

All the best, David

Edited December 17, 20214 yr by Wisper Bikes

You are absolutely correct Matthew.

 

We can confirm that like for like the motors have practically the same torque. There is almost no difference in power between our 50Nm hub motor and our 100Nm mid motor at the motor. The Wisper Wayfarer mid drive is better for climbing steep hills and the hub drive is better for around town, and of course the hub drive is more efficient, quieter (for the rider) and does not wear the chain drive as badly.

 

As you say, horses for courses, neither one is better than the other, it totally depends on how and where you want to ride.

 

All the best, David

What I particularly like about mid-drive is that it is never overwhelmed by the 'hard' bits of a ride: I can always go down a gear or up an assistance level, and the most important aspect of ebiking for me - cycling with the hard bits taken away - is always true.

 

I don't agree with the higher efficiency point. Yes, the peak efficiency is higher for a hub, but if you look at the average achieved efficiency over a real world journey then I suspect there is little difference. The hub is only working efficiently in the upper half of the speed range. Below that it drops off a lot, whereas a mid-drive with the gears properly used is always in its efficient range.

just to add the Carbon bike looks mint

Yes very nice.

But whats the option for fitting a rack though ?, is it going to be the type that incorporates a rear guard ?

And(At Wisper)what is the Tailwind C weight inc the smaller battery

I could be in for a 2nd ebike, I just cant bring my self to use the scott genuis 920 into the city for shopping duties. Not just the overall weight, but the fact about leaving a £5K locked up while away from it for longer than an hour or two. That Wisper c just looks so stealthE.

 

Can you supply any sort of ballpark figure for the Tailwind C smaller battery ?

Yes very nice.

But whats the option for fitting a rack though ?, is it going to be the type that incorporates a rear guard ?

And(At Wisper)what is the Tailwind C weight inc the smaller battery

I could be in for a 2nd ebike, I just cant bring my self to use the scott genuis 920 into the city for shopping duties. Not just the overall weight, but the fact about leaving a £5K locked up while away from it for longer than an hour or two. That Wisper c just looks so stealthE.

 

Can you supply any sort of ballpark figure for the Tailwind C smaller battery ?

 

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for your interest!

 

The Tailwind Aluminium will be available with the same bespoke aluminium mudguards and incorporated rear rack as the Wisper Wayfarer. The Tailwind C will be available with lightweight polycarbonate Mudguards and seat post rack.

 

The stripped back Tailwind C should come onto the market with a 375Wh battery weighing in at just over 14kg at about the £2,400 mark.

 

All the best, David

What I particularly like about mid-drive is that it is never overwhelmed by the 'hard' bits of a ride: I can always go down a gear or up an assistance level, and the most important aspect of ebiking for me - cycling with the hard bits taken away - is always true.

 

I don't agree with the higher efficiency point. Yes, the peak efficiency is higher for a hub, but if you look at the average achieved efficiency over a real world journey then I suspect there is little difference. The hub is only working efficiently in the upper half of the speed range. Below that it drops off a lot, whereas a mid-drive with the gears properly used is always in its efficient range.

 

All good points Matthew and I agree with you on everything you say.

 

I have always wondered about the benefits and advantages of mid dives over hub. This is one of the reasons we designed and manufacture the only eBike in the word (that we are aware of) that gives people the choice of both on practically the same frame. 50Nm Hub Drive and 100Nm Mid Drive.

 

Whenever we can we get customers try both before making the buying decision. In the majority of cases people come in to buy the mid drive, try both, then leave with a hub. We sell thousands of Wayfarers and interestingly the ratio between hub and mid drive sales is about 25% mid 75% hub.

 

Based on our experience and sales figures we believe that although the mid drive is superior in some riding conditions especially off road with steep inclines, overall the hub drive is actually better for the majority of riders demands and needs.

 

All the best, David

Hi David, any news on the Wayfarers please? I ordered earlier in the year and was told October and then November delivery. I know it's been difficult for you, have you a new date in 2022?

Hi David, any news on the Wayfarers please? I ordered earlier in the year and was told October and then November delivery. I know it's been difficult for you, have you a new date in 2022?

 

Hi Fozziebear,

 

Good news... the next delivery will be mid January, they are built and waiting in Portugal for final QC. They will be dispatched W/C 4th Jan.

 

 

 

 

We had some painting issues but after upgrading to 2K the problem was solved.

 

Sorry about the wait!

 

All the best, David

Edited December 23, 20214 yr by Wisper Bikes

Thanks for the update, Merry Christmas.

Thanks for your patience, Merry Christmas to you too!