Battery Guarantee - Lithium

 

I can assure you it's cock-up rather than conspiracy. And there isn't really any small print on that page. I will make the terms clearer if need be, or offer another battery warranty extension. We find that if a battery goes wrong it usually does so within a couple of months or not at all. Maybe the warranty term will be extended to a year and beyond, we are due to review the whole subject of batteries with eZee later this year.

 

Tim:

How about giving me the benefit of what you say above. It is YOUR Cock-up!

My Lithium battery failed (would not hold its charge) after 80 miles. Unfortunately because it got very little use at the end of last Summer and

Winter it was 8 months old (from date of delivery). I was required to pay £250 for a new one - that's £3+ per mile.

 

I would draw your attention to the contradiction between the Sprint Manual (that was the one provided with the Chopper) and the statements made by Mr. Ching of eZee Cycles - I will paste them below.

 

PERHAPS ON THIS OCCASION YOU WILL DO ME THE COURTESY OF REPLYING TO THIS CONTACT (OR TO MY E-MAILS: THAT WOULD HELP FOR STARTERS).

 

In answer to my question, Mr. Ching wrote:

4) Our guarantee for the battery is 6 months up to 80% DOD (depth of discharge) or capacity.

Battery could be subject to abuse, such as deep discharge that means customer always discharge his battery empty very frequently, and etc. The more you charge the battery the better, and don´t take it to empty.

 

Quoting from the Sprint (Chopper) Manual:

11. Low Voltage Protection: To prevent the battery from deep discharge that will irreversibly damage the battery, the power will cut of when it reached a certain low voltage protection. When you see that the battery level indicator shows the yellow/orange warning light it is necessary to charge your battery again. When the minimum battery level is reached the electric motor will not function smoothly.

 

Section 5 Battery Charging Operations:

NEW BATTERY NEEDS TO BE CONDITIONED WITH 2 OR 3 FULL DISCHARGES AND CHARGE CYCLES BEFORE IT COME TO THE FULL CAPACITY.

 

So! who is right? Mr. Ching (in his e-mail to me) or eZee Cycles (in their Manual?): Are they not one and the same?

Which came first, the Manual (and the advice therein) or Mr. Ching's expose of how one should treat one's Lithium battery?

It was the Manual - Actually, in the case of the Chopper the advice was not followed because no ride was made greater than 20 miles and that did not 'Deeply Discharge' the battery. So the battery was not damaged by the way it was treated - it was simply doomed to a short life from the start.

 

In case you believe that the advice in the Manual was applicable to the NiMH battery only you should refer to it: you will find the advice comes under the heading:

"Battery Charging Operations"

Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) 36V 9Ah or Lithium Ion (Li+) 36V 10Ah

 

As for "small print": the guarantee terms for the battery were NOT shown where the guarantee terms were placed on the web page under "Specification", they were "burried away" in the commentary on Lithium Batteries on another page (one of about 30 pages dealing with the characteristics of the cycle referred to.

If you are keen to clarify the terms of the Guarantee you should do so without delay: other potential customers are being misled as I write.

But you had the opportunity to clarify the terms to me over many of the last weeks where I wrote to you numerously about the "VAGUE" terms of the guarantee in general - but as yet no reply.

Here's your chance to put matters right

Peter Clutterbuck

 

PS: As a retired business man I would ask that you take a hard, deep look at your web site and what is published there: not only to correct the exagerations but also to fill in the missing gaps on information that should be supplied for clarity and transparancy. And publish under the heading "GUARANTEE" the full terms of that guarantee as refers to: The Frame, Components and Battery and cover the other interesting facts such as who pays for the delivery and return of failed components/cycles. Silence on the subject does not mean "the customer".

You have under the comments (feedback ) on one model published the same euphoric feedback on another model.

It's not about MPG alone, it's about emissions.

Looking at CO2 emissions (because that is what is going to put the coasts under water), a Prius emits 22%-34% less CO2 per kilometre than a Matiz, dependent on model.

If you want to start a campaign, I can think of a large variety of other vehicles that are more appropriate candidates.

I was joking about the campaign you know!

 

I agree my matiz isn't the best on emissions (161 g/km) which is one reason I'm swapping it for a Citroen C1 which has a 109 g/km emissions (and £35 car tax instead of £140 for the matiz).

The C1 list price is £5800 (with current manufacturer discounts) and does 61.9 mpg (officially). I expect in practice to get no less than 58mpg (and perhaps more than 61.9 with my driving pattern - I do 42 mpg (against 44 mpg offical figures) with the matiz and that's with roof bars and putting my foot down.

The Prius is about £18000 and returns around 50mpg with 104 g/km emissions. That's £12000 to save about 5g/km CO2.

My advice to those who are considering buying a Prius is don't. Buy a C1 (or another mainstream car with low CO2 rating) and then spend the huge saving on an ebike. Think of the bike you could have for £12000!

My advice to those who are considering buying a Prius is don't. Buy a C1 (or another mainstream car with low CO2 rating) and then spend the huge saving on an ebike. Think of the bike you could have for £12000!

 

Very wise advice, not just for the £12000 saving, but more importantly for the even bigger benefit that would result every time the bike was used instead of the car. Even with a fair weather only rider, the additional savings in fuel cost and CO2 emission would be very large.

Edited May 15, 200718 yr by flecc

i think we need a dedicated green thread, then we can keep all the co2 in one place:D :D

i think we need a dedicated green thread, then we can keep all the co2 in one place

Maybe we could compress the CO2 and use it to inflate our ebike tyres :D

Just watched the midday news on the introduction of an emissions detector camera to London. Seems Beijing already uses them to prevent polluters entering the city. Good idea, but cyclists perhaps ought to lay off the baked beans.

.

I was joking about the campaign you know!

 

 

My advice to those who are considering buying a Prius is don't. Buy a C1 (or another mainstream car with low CO2 rating) and then spend the huge saving on an ebike. Think of the bike you could have for £12000!

 

Unless you want a family saloon-sized car that can seat five comfortably, automatic transmission, a decent ride, a boot than can take more than one shopping bag, dont like bare metal or shiny cheap plastics, and fancy Japanese reliability rather than French wonkiness!

 

My point? Compare apples with apples. A budget supermini is a completely different market sector to the family saloon - and some of us cannot manage with a car that small. Again, if you can, great for you. If you need a family saloon, a Prius will give you supermini emissions in a much bigger car - that is the whole point. It is not intended to compete directly with the cars in that sector.

 

I ran a Honda Jazz before the Prius, so I am well versed in the pros and cons of the small car. Choosing a car, or an electric bike, is all about balancing your requirements against what you can afford or are willing to pay.

 

And I would advocate a Toyota Aygo over a C1 any day of the week. They are exactly the same design, but the Toyota will be better built, more reliable and has better residuals. That is why they throw so much discount at the Citroens.

flecc

 

but cyclists perhaps ought to lay off the baked beans.

 

again we move away from electric bikes to jet propulsion:rolleyes:

 

mike

Did you know? at 20mph 80% of cyclists' effort is against wind resistance?...

 

I think we need a thread on dietary advice too (sorry couldn't resist! - oops! Where's the cap on CO2 emissions when you need it )

 

Stuart.

... and fancy Japanese reliability rather than French wonkiness!

 

And I would advocate a Toyota Aygo over a C1 any day of the week. They are exactly the same design, but the Toyota will be better built, more reliable and has better residuals. That is why they throw so much discount at the Citroens.

I admit the Prius is bigger and I should have chosen a bigger car to compare it with.

 

Be fair to Citroen though, they have been improving their reliability over recent years (they needed to!) though it is not relevant to the C1 / 107 / Aygo topic. I wouldn't pay more for the Aygo since the engine is identical (as is just about all the car). More importantly it is put together by the same workers on the same production line.

 

The Aygo, C1 and 107 use the same Toyota designed floorpan and running gear and are built in £1bn investment factory funded jointly by PSA and Toyota. The facility was designed and equipped by Toyota and can produce 300,000 cars a year. It is situated at Kolin in the Czech Republic which chosen because of its central European position for the supply of parts and because of the ample availability of less costly workers.

 

If you buy an Aygo then, you are paying much more for a badge. If you want an Aygo buy a C1 and then order a couple of badges from Toyota.

 

As for residuals just how much can a £5800 car lose in a few years? It may be a Citroen but it should still hold it's value well due to the low running costs and low insurance making it an excellent choice for a 2nd car / young persons car.

I admit the Prius is bigger and I should have chosen a bigger car to compare it with.

 

Be fair to Citroen though, they have been improving their reliability over recent years (they needed to!) though it is not relevant to the C1 / 107 / Aygo topic. I wouldn't pay more for the Aygo since the engine is identical (as is just about all the car). More importantly it is put together by the same workers on the same production line.

 

The Aygo, C1 and 107 use the same Toyota designed floorpan and running gear and are built in £1bn investment factory funded jointly by PSA and Toyota. The facility was designed and equipped by Toyota and can produce 300,000 cars a year. It is situated at Kolin in the Czech Republic which chosen because of its central European position for the supply of parts and because of the ample availability of less costly workers.

 

If you buy an Aygo then, you are paying much more for a badge. If you want an Aygo buy a C1 and then order a couple of badges from Toyota.

 

As for residuals just how much can a £5800 car lose in a few years? It may be a Citroen but it should still hold it's value well due to the low running costs and low insurance making it an excellent choice for a 2nd car / young persons car.

 

Hmm, I thought your 2nd car was an e-bike?

 

Good thing for PSA that Toyota runs the factory. I still reckon an Aygo will be worth more in the long run - memories of dodgy French electrics run deep.

Hmm, I thought your 2nd car was an e-bike?

 

Good thing for PSA that Toyota runs the factory. I still reckon an Aygo will be worth more in the long run - memories of dodgy French electrics run deep.

Yes it can take a long time to shake off a bad image.

 

I confess that we are a two car family though I do have a hub motor kit on a bike which I am now starting to use for commuting (16.5 miles each way). I am aiming to do it on a regular basis 2 days a week (at least during good weather / daylight).

I used the ebike on my commute for the first time last week and it took 1 hour 2 minutes (against 1 hour 13 mins on the unassisted bike) and I was not sweaty at all so didn't need to shower at work. I've only got a 24V system with a 15Amp controller so peak power is 360W. My goal for an ebike would be to get the journey time down to 45 minutes (though this would be 22 mph average!) but I would settle for 50 minutes (19.8 mph). I think I will need 36V to get that kind of speed.

I think a Torq or one of the F-Series would achieve this, so when I've got my money's worth out of the current kit (in terms of petrol savings) I shall look at buying one of the Eeze bikes (though there may be something better on the market at that time).

flecc

 

 

 

again we move away from electric bikes to jet propulsion:rolleyes:

 

mike

 

Anyone tried an afterburner?

Anyone tried an afterburner?

 

Should work!

 

I wonder if you'd all realised that the blind fronted groove which exits at the rear of the Torq saddle is for this purpose.

.