Has anyone used or brought a Raleigh Stow-Away e-bike please? I cannot find a decent review (independent) on You-Tube as I would like to have done. So I thought I must ask the forum, as I'm sure someone will know something?

 

A few years ago when they came out they were £1300, now they are below £1000, so in my league now. I think the colour choice is limited, but that's no great problem really, even though I'd like one in black. Thanks all Richard.

If your budget is less than £1000, why not convert an old secondhand sub £200 Dahon with a BBS01B? I did. You'd end up with a better bike (IMHO) more convenient to repair, and have a bigger battery to boot (mine's on the boot/pannier rack). I only found this forum while seeeking fine tuning firmware setting perfection post conversion; just followed this video:

 

 

My favourite Dahon pare parts shop/the only Dahon spare parts shop in the UK. I dread them ever closing down...

 

https://foldingbike.biz/

 

In a few years, that weird looking Raleigh battery will be headache to repair/replace. Not so with the BBS01B!

 

The Stow-e-way is well reviewed by ebiketips here. It features in several of their own "Best Buy" tables. The same bike is also sold as the Raleigh Evo. Raleigh often show it at Caravan and Motorhome shows and exhibitions (I guess that's a clue as to where they see a good chunk of their market). The battery is TranzX and quite common, but it's a bit small (although fine for what you've previously said you want to do). It's not that cheap to replace.

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=150154

 

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/known-issues-problems-with-raleigh-products-help-solutions-fixes.13197/

the raleigh brand is owned buy winora same as haibike and Lapierre and many other brands.

The battery is TranzX and quite common, but it's a bit small (although fine for what you've previously said you want to do). It's not that cheap to replace.

 

Will those batteries or their parts be common in a few years? Generic batteries for the BBS01B will be for many years. Wallet pain can lead to head aching.

https://www.cyclemart.co.uk/spare-parts/raleigh-stow-e-way-battery/

 

sod that it is half the price of the bike and only 300w

https://www.cyclemart.co.uk/spare-parts/raleigh-stow-e-way-battery/

 

sod that it is half the price of the bike and only 300w

 

£475.00 ...and that's when they're common - wait till they're rare!

As [mention=11305]soundwave[/mention] pointed out Raleigh is a part of Winora; many Winora bikes Europe use TranzX drive systems (all the Stow-e-way electronic parts still feature in TranzX's current catalogue), so I think there's a good probability it'll be around for a while yet.

 

More of a worry is it's a CANbus system, so it's a dealer visit if it goes wrong with the potential of being an expensive fix. I too have a TranzX driven e-bike, but I have that dealer diagnostic software and I'm pretty handy with tools which the OP says he's not.

 

EDIT: The battery is a TranzX BL21; there was a brand new one in box sold on ebay for £200 recently.

Edited December 20, 20223 yr by cyclebuddy

I'm pretty handy with tools which the OP says he's not.

 

It's fun to learn new things - before conversion, I knew how to change an inner tube, replace a chain and that was all. Now I can straighten wheels, solder, and have gained other skills I never thought I would. But if the OP cannot envisage being able to do what's depicted in the video I linked previously, perhaps buying something off-the-shelf would suit him better.

the raleigh brand is owned buy winora same as haibike and Lapierre and many other brands.

 

As [mention=11305]soundwave[/mention] pointed out Raleigh is a part of Winora

 

A small correction, Winora do not own Raleigh. Both those bicycle brands and numerous others are owned by the Accell company, a Dutch giant who dominate Europe's cycle market*** Brands page

 

A second Dutch company, Pon Holdings owns much of the rest, including Derby Cycles gmbh who own Kalkhoff and many other European brands.

 

***"Accell Group employs approximately 3,500 people across 15 countries. Our bikes and related products are sold to dealers and consumers in more than 80 countries. In 2021, we sold around 856 thousand bicycles and recorded a turnover of € 1.4 billion."

.

why cant they use just one brand name lol

 

looks like they sold it.

https://www.accell-group.com/en/news/news-2/final-results-of-the-offer-for-accell-group-96-90-obtained.htm

Edited December 20, 20223 yr by soundwave

Ah, okay. Never-the-less, whilst TranzX isn't that well known a brand over here, they too are still a pretty big company supplying bicycle parts and electronics to these bike brands, so future parts shouldn't be a problem:

 

More of a worry is it's a CANbus system, so it's a dealer visit if it goes wrong with the potential of being an expensive fix. I too have a TranzX driven e-bike, but I have that dealer diagnostic software

 

How much was the software and how easy was it to buy/obtain?

How much was the software and how easy was it to buy/obtain?

It didn't cost anything; I just happened to be talking to the right person at the right time and they gave me a link to download a copy (although that link doesn't work anymore).

 

I haven't actually needed to use it yet but it's interesting to play with/see what it does.

bosch use a usb dongle but you need a dealer portal to use the software and do updates ect.

A small correction, Winora do not own Raleigh. Both those bicycle brands and numerous others are owned by the Accell company, a Dutch giant who dominate Europe's cycle market*** Brands page

 

A second Dutch company, Pon Holdings owns much of the rest, including Derby Cycles gmbh who own Kalkhoff and many other European brands.

 

***"Accell Group employs approximately 3,500 people across 15 countries. Our bikes and related products are sold to dealers and consumers in more than 80 countries. In 2021, we sold around 856 thousand bicycles and recorded a turnover of € 1.4 billion."

.

 

I think Pon Holdings bought Accell and then that group was recently purchased by KKR investments or something like that of the USA. So its US owned now. These are mainly brands most of the bikes are engineered in Asia and frames etc are manufactured in Asia. In the past fuji-ta were a big frame supplier to them but that could have changed. They import fully assembled bikes from Asia but also have assembly plants in Europe so they can slap on a made in Europe label. Many walmart bikes were supplied(imported) by Accell.

 

I've seen some Raleigh bikes that are a bit rough in manufacturing, I don't think Accell treated the brand very well personally. I recently bought a £50 ebike in quite a rough state to try to refurbish and it reminds me a bit of the Raleigh Stowaway ebike, its the Roodog Bliss. Seems similar except perhaps the Roodog is less proprietary. I also saw on hotukdeals recently a Raleigh Stowaway bargain listing for the non-ebike version and it seemed a lovely folding bike for the money and ideal for ebike conversion I felt.

 

Nowadays I feel like Raleigh is a bit like Halford's Apollo range in components but the Raleighs are priced much higher I can't see the appeal of them myself. It's not like you are supporting a British company its just a badge slap on an Asian bike with a extra margin going to the European/US importers.

 

I think Pon Holdings bought Accell and then that group was recently purchased by KKR investments or something like that of the USA. So its US owned now. These are mainly brands most of the bikes are engineered in Asia and frames etc are manufactured in Asia. In the past fuji-ta were a big frame supplier to them but that could have changed. They import fully assembled bikes from Asia but also have assembly plants in Europe so they can slap on a made in Europe label. Many walmart bikes were supplied(imported) by Accell.

 

I've seen some Raleigh bikes that are a bit rough in manufacturing, I don't think Accell treated the brand very well personally. I recently bought a £50 ebike in quite a rough state to try to refurbish and it reminds me a bit of the Raleigh Stowaway ebike, its the Roodog Bliss. Seems similar except perhaps the Roodog is less proprietary. I also saw on hotukdeals recently a Raleigh Stowaway bargain listing for the non-ebike version and it seemed a lovely folding bike for the money and ideal for ebike conversion I felt.

 

Nowadays I feel like Raleigh is a bit like Halford's Apollo range in components but the Raleighs are priced much higher I can't see the appeal of them myself. It's not like you are supporting a British company its just a badge slap on an Asian bike with a extra margin going to the European/US importers.

 

 

Bike company ownership is a crazy situation now. Accell and Pon still operating independently in the Netherlands but US owned. Some of the few European makes they don't own are owned by US company Trek.

 

And Schwinn, who were once America's largest bike company, went broke in 1996 and were taken over by Pacific Cycles who in turn are owned by Pon Holdings.

 

Increasingly bicycle brands no longer mean much, many brands do not even have a factory to call their own.

.

It didn't cost anything; I just happened to be talking to the right person at the right time and they gave me a link to download a copy (although that link doesn't work anymore).

 

I haven't actually needed to use it yet but it's interesting to play with/see what it does.

 

Multiple steady income streams via subscriptions and similar for software and associated services make bike manufacturers interesting to investors, who can leverage to look more creditworthy for other investments, which explains why ownership chanes so often - about 15 years ago I got talking to an RC car enthusiast (prospective client) who's day job was remapping BMW engines, said his subscription for doing such was steep; also claimed BMW required a cut of his profits...to me, this sounded utterly unacceptable and predatory. That you managed to get your software for free is quite astonishing - from a dealer's point of view such systems are a great money saving advantage: they don't have to hire electronic engineers to repair bikes, they simply have to employ and train up someone to use the software and the plug and play system to swap out entire bike subsystems, which report the required error codes... which is wasteful and not terribly green compared to actually determining the fault at a component level and repairing only those... of course from the system manufacturer's point of view this is preferable to component level repairs, because those can be of variable quality which can risk their system being blamed, affecting brand reliability perception - swapping entire subsystems with new ones overall make for more consistent repairs, because good electronic engineers are rarely hired for cheap. For most bike buyers though, it means comparatively higher cost repairs in the long term. Which is why I would never buy a TrannyX, Bosch or any CAN bus or similar systemed bike. I resent such systems being used in cars. Call me old-fashioned, but I'm suspicious of "Tranz" anything. It wouln't suprise me if they changed their name soon, to something less sex-changey - they must get many unwelcome phone enquiries already, but they'd get many more as TranzXXX

 

I haven't actually needed to use it yet but it's interesting to play with/see what it does.

 

I have no doubt it's fun to fiddle about with -it's good that bikes don't get bored being interrogated repeatedly with the same questions, with their balls rigged to batteries and various parts threatened with amputation...

Edited December 21, 20223 yr by guerney

Bike company ownership is a crazy situation now. Accell and Pon still operating independently in the Netherlands but US owned. Some of the few European makes they don't own are owned by US company Trek.

 

And Schwinn, who were once America's largest bike company, went broke in 1996 and were taken over by Pacific Cycles who in turn are owned by Pon Holdings.

 

Increasingly bicycle brands no longer mean much, many brands do not even have a factory to call their own.

.

 

I know Trek like Canyon have used Quest Composites to make some of their carbon fibre framed bikes, the brand even features on the Quest Composite site and its a pretty poor CF factory. I've seen some of the frames analysed on youtube by various engineers and they are poorly made. Of course Trek quality varies enormously as they change factories regularly. Fuji-ta is again one of the factories that makes or did make some of their aluminium bikes and I think Giant has made some of their high end CF bikes. I'm sure Trek were a real manufacturer in the US many years ago where as some brands like Specialized have never made their own bikes. I think the last US brand to manufacture in the US on a large scale were Cannondale and to be honest they were poor quality but light and they had the joke name 'Crack'n'fail' and became much better quality when they started importing from Taiwan.

 

You can buy a high quality Asian CF frame from one of the 2 or 3 really high quality manufacturers for about £1000 or you can buy a poor quality Asian frame with an Italian badge slap for maybe £5000. Cycling is almost like the fashion or cosmetics industry at the top its all about lifestyle and marketing with product quality of little importance.

...from a dealer's point of view such systems are a great money saving advantage: they don't have to hire electronic engineers to repair bikes, they simply have to employ and train up someone to use the software and the plug and play system to swap out entire bike subsystems, which report the required error codes...

Looking at this TranzX system, it's simply a "de-skilling" tool.

 

It allows "proper" traditional "grease-monkey" bike mechanics who may be devoid of any electrical skills the ability to sell, service and repair a growth segment of their market with some confidence which they might otherwise shun. One of my local bike dealers is exactly that, a seasoned veteran repairing bikes since the 1950's. He can true a wheel in his sleep, but electrics are a complete anathema to him.

 

What I particularly like is:

1) It points you in the direction of where to look for the fault. It's not always a case of a wholesale component change.

2) You can of course update manufacturer firmware - or revert back to a previous version (as many Bosch owners have sometimes had a desire to do).

3) The "cloud" tells you when/where the bike was made, the bike serial nos (individual parts included - motor, display etc), firmware version and it's update history. It records a log of all faults and component changes to your specific bike over time. You can't give a prospective second buyer the "It's been thoroughly reliable, I've hardly used it" yarn to garner a better price because the full story is there, fixed for eternity in the cloud.

 

CANbus systems aren't everyone's cup of tea, but for some (both dealers and consumers) I can see they can be a good solution.

Looking at this TranzX system, it's simply a "de-skilling" tool.

 

It allows "proper" traditional "grease-monkey" bike mechanics who may be devoid of any electrical skills the ability to sell, service and repair a growth segment of their market with some confidence which they might otherwise shun. One of my local bike dealers is exactly that, a seasoned veteran repairing bikes since the 1950's. He can true a wheel in his sleep, but electrics are a complete anathema to him.

 

What I particularly like is:

1) It points you in the direction of where to look for the fault. It's not always a case of a wholesale component change.

2) You can of course update manufacturer firmware - or revert back to a previous version (as many Bosch owners have sometimes had a desire to do).

3) The "cloud" tells you when/where the bike was made, the bike serial nos (individual parts included - motor, display etc), firmware version and it's update history. It records a log of all faults and component changes to your specific bike over time. You can't give a prospective second buyer the "It's been thoroughly reliable, I've hardly used it" yarn to garner a better price because the full story is there, fixed for eternity in the cloud.

 

CANbus systems aren't everyone's cup of tea, but for some (both dealers and consumers) I can see they can be a good solution.

 

Aren't all ebikes pretty much can bus? I think it just means controller area network and a bus for devices to communicate with each other and pretty much all ebikes have to do that if they have a display and controller communicating together. It can be a universal open standard. I think the issue is encrypted can bus solutions where they prevent easy repair and replacement and therefore often make repairs uneconomic and send many expensive ebikes to recycling prematurely. I've seen a few of the big US ebike importers videos on youtube with instructions for how to do repairs for dealers and end consumers. They show how to do simple checks and replace controllers or fuses. The controllers often look generic but of course the video's say buy your replacement from them if not a free warranty replacement, they show good support for non-encrypted ebikes.

 

To encrypt ebike parts is a commercial decision to maximise revenue. I was astounded when I saw on a video how much it costs to be a Bosch dealer and just do basic diagnosis and light repairs and not much else. It's clear both dealers and consumers are being exploited but obviously consumers have that choice to pay these huge premiums for such short life products.

 

I'm strongly against proprietary encrypted short-life products, I believe in the right to repair and making ebikes accessible to the maximum number of people. I feel very similar to the Canadian company Grin Technology about making reliable long term solutions rather than over-complicated overpriced short life products.

there are only 2 mid drive motors that are made to be serviced Yamaha and impulse.

 

Yamaha uses uart programming for coms on there systems and one of the only motors you can get parts for and a new controller if required.

 

peter can now do board repair on some controllers with a 90% success rate as most of the time it is short damage from water inside the motors.

Aren't all ebikes pretty much can bus? I think it just means controller area network and a bus for devices to communicate with each other and pretty much all ebikes have to do that if they have a display and controller communicating together. It can be a universal open standard. I think the issue is encrypted can bus solutions where they prevent easy repair and replacement and therefore often make repairs uneconomic and send many expensive ebikes to recycling prematurely.

 

The protocol for Bafang's BBS series has been painstakingly (many controller sacrifices made by hackers) and comprehensively hacked, and the battery wasn't included - just two wires. It's awful that Bafang's potting material is so hard to remove from the controller, for testing and repair, especially when burnt (as reported by [mention=19370]peter.c[/mention] recently). If I had known about this before I bought the kit, I would have bought a more open hub system, then been horribly disappointed when a legal 250W hub was incapable of towing my heavy bike trailers up steep hills... something my BBS01B excels at, which still provides me with high speed if needed, when not towing. When 1000W hub motored bikes become legal to ride without a license, I'll get one.

Edited December 21, 20223 yr by guerney

https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bicycle-parts-electric-bicycle/bafang-e-bike-parts/bafang-tools/bafang-besst-uc-3-0-diagnosis-tool-black-674362/

 

so that means there batts only but ppl have hacked it but then the batts voltage is level wrong as not talking to the controller.

 

just rip the pi$$ing controller out of it and use a phase runner or vesc ect