Do you believe they are getting 3.6 kW power output, the motor sourced from one of those solar arrays Miles?

 

It's difficult to believe, even in Australian sunshine, and I definitely don't believe the 98%.

 

Just saw your Cyclone comment, and that motor sprung to mind when I read kraeuterbutter's post!

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It does seem pretty unlikely, but I haven't a clue about solar panels.

 

As for 98%, I'd rather put my money on this than the Cyclone... Peak efficiencies above 95% are possible, I think, especially with larger motors, but usually at great cost and complexity... I can't see it being worth it for our type of application....

Edited August 6, 200718 yr by Miles

 

As for 98%, I'd rather put my money on this than the Cyclone...

 

 

Yes that's for certain.

 

I could believe around 95% for a specialised lab developed motor with very limited practical application, but I think 98% is pushing the credibility limits too far. These figures so often get loaded to give the most impressive result, and that's particularly true of organisations that need to justify funding. Some make advertising agents look like amateurs!

 

I think motors flexible enough for most practical uses are unlikely to touch 90% at present.

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You're probably right, flecc. I posted it as it's often referred to but I really don't have any special knowledge or interest. Like you, I'm really more interested in getting the most out of what is immediately to hand...

second:

i slimm hub-motor, mounted between front and rear-wheel under the frame (with special build frame for that, maybe a little longer than usually)

would be a nice sollution i think..

 

This is pretty much what the Stokemonkey is like:

Cleverchimp: Stokemonkey: Overview

@flecc: don´t nail me with the 98%

 

(just another example: within the E.T.S. Solarmobil there is a Hochleistungsrekuperationsmotor with an Effizienz von 97% used..)

 

its not that important anyway..

what i meant was: solar-powered cars are a application were efficience is VERY much needed

==> and specially there i have already seen this triangle/star-thing..

may they have 90%, 95% or 98%... thats not the point..

the point is: they drive competition-races, they need high efficience, AND the triangle-star-configuration-swithing is used on some...

thats what i wanted to state..

 

for effecience: its also question if they count the motor alone, or with controller..

even small rc-modell-brushless motors have been measured with over 91% including the looses of the controller

for sure: in this region every additional %-point of efficience means a lot of money and developement...

 

@flecc: don´t nail me with the 98%

 

 

Absolutely not kraeuterbutter, and I think it's clear my criticism was of organisations like that one which claim such things, certainly not saying you were in any way responsible.

 

I mentioned it to illustrate why I'm so cynical about claims of amazing advances in technology. If those made during my long engineering lifetime had been only half true, we'd be in the technological 5th Millennium now and I'd be riding a 6 kilo, 40 mph, 200 mile range e-bike.

 

Of course I fully agree about the importance of efficiency, and where it's particularly important when a power source is limited, and of course it's relevance to our e-bikes.

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hi not sure if this is relevant but team hybryd sell a two speed motor which uses a switch to change from low speed high torque to high speed low torque not sure if you could get more variation than this or posibly you would end up with massive motor

 

jim

That's the one I commented on early in this thread Jim.

 

As Team Hybrid warn, the consumption in hill climb mode is very high and they say it's use should be minimised. It's the sort of reason I don't approve of this approach.

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hi i suppose i am looking at this in a rather selfish way as i have a longish commute which finishes with a rather steep hill and at the end of the day it would be nice to cruise up this hill

 

jim

If that's the crystalyte 408 or 9 & 4011 "dual" motor you're referring to, I've heard it said that the difference in torque is not very pronounced at all, so it would seem the trade-off for that efficiency loss is not lucrative, shall we say .

 

I think that reinforces what's been said about hub motors having quite a wide powerband anyway, so (as has been said) adding very few motor gears could much more easily distribute power very efficiently over the full range of bike speeds, and seems a very straightforward & effective approach .

 

The crystalyte 4xx series motors, even the single speed ones, do seem rather heavy at, I think, around 4.5kg each: thats light compared to the crystalyte 5xxx series which seem more efficient, but more at home in electric motorbikes, at around twice that weight, or more!

 

I think your view on the steep hill is shared by many ebike users jim, especially those of us who'd like the speed and low speed torque i.e. ability to climb steep hills easily and speed to 20mph+, with the same energy efficiency...

 

For now its just a dream, but as this thread shows it can be achieved quite easily, cheaply & reliably with minimal changes to existing hub motors, if someone were to do it .

 

Stuart.

Edited August 7, 200718 yr by coops

If that's the crystalyte 408 or 9 & 4011 "dual" motor you're referring to, I've heard it said that the difference in torque is not very pronounced at all, so it would seem the trade-off for that efficiency loss is not lucrative, shall we say .

 

I think that reinforces what's been said about hub motors having quite a wide powerband anyway, so (as has been said) adding very few motor gears could much more easily distribute power very efficiently over the full range of bike speeds, and seems a very straightforward & effective approach .

 

See my latest thread Stuart!

hi i suppose i am looking at this in a rather selfish way as i have a longish commute which finishes with a rather steep hill and at the end of the day it would be nice to cruise up this hill

 

jim

 

That's not selfish at all Jim, as you say that's just when you need the extra, at the end of a tiring day and cycle ride. I don't know if the extra consumption of this motor type would be too much if the battery is a bit low at the end of the trip though. It could just cut out and sulk!

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i just hope with enough people chipping away at the problem we will get a bike which will climb more or less any hill but will also go at reasonable speed and by hills i mean 1in 4 or 1in 5

jim

My Q bike runs at around 16 to 18 mph on motor and climbs virtually anything at good speed Jim, and you can see that here on the final page.

 

So it is possible, and there are just the odd commercial ones that can do most of it. The eZee Forte and Forza with an average rider are a couple, and at a much lower speeds, the Panasonic powered bikes will manage up to 1 in 5 with a good rider contribution, and a bit more with strong riders.

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i go up that 1 in 4 1 in 5 type of hill on my giant but it still takes a lot of effort i would be interested to know what the forte and forza can climb maybe with 12 stone rider with out to much pedaling i think the q bike is impressive good speed and hill climbing but someone needs to do that with a standard bike maybe a small wheeled forte would be the answer

I think the Forte and Forza would still need a quite strong rider input at that steepness. I agree about the effort with the Giant on those hills, I find them tough on my Twist too.

 

eZee did do the small wheel version of the Sprint, called the Chopper, which was a great hill climber, but it seems to have been discontinued, probably sales too low.

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yes i suppose there is no point making some thing that does not sell perhaps someone will come up with a more atractive bike but with simmilar atributes

Good Hill Climber!

 

yes i suppose there is no point making some thing that does not sell perhaps someone will come up with a more atractive bike but with simmilar atributes

 

They do! It's called a Quando by eZee cycles.

See Flecc's posting on the subject on the Forum and his "Manual" on Electric Bikes.

index

 

Peter

But it can't handle 1 in 4 Peter, and 1 in 5 is barely possible without very high fitness, these mentioned by Jim.

 

It's problem is a single near 70" gear, making the steepest climbs impossible, but on lesser climbs it's indeed superb.

.

Edited August 7, 200718 yr by flecc

i agree with flecc if quando was so good there would have been no point in doing all that work modifying it

jim

One in Four

 

i agree with flecc if quando was so good there would have been no point in doing all that work modifying it

jim

 

25% gradients are something of a tall order.

The Cannondale Crampon will do it!

Where do you find 1 in 4's that cannot be avoided or are you hooked on Uber-hills?

If I can get up 1 in 7 I'm over the moon. Everything else is avoidable.

Peter

hi pete thats trying to avoid albion hill and southover st where you would need crampons these roads are about 1 in 2 i think

 

jim

I'm guessing you mean those streets at Brighton Jim?

 

Maybe not 1 in 2, but way beyond average e-bikes and truly vicious climbs for certain.

 

I'd just move!

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Edited August 9, 200718 yr by flecc

yes thats the ones round hanover lovely hills

 

jim