lithium battery life

 

I get two miles on an eeze torq on lithium when the red light comes on. I have had the bike since the summer and have ridden 69 miles - surely there must be a fault? I find 50 cycles pretty hands off when it comes to warranty help - does anyone else have problems?

re ezee torq

 

My problem is a vey loud screech when I apply the motor. I 'm also finding 50 cycles a little 'hands off' . My husbands bike is perfect.

Re the battery... Our batteries seem to last a long time, but havent done any calculations.

Hi Robert and welcome!

 

How many miles are you getting before red ? It does vary considerably as you'll find by all the owners reports on this forum. Two miles seems about right before the battery is exhausted. When you refer to a fault, could you explain a bit more about what you mean and we'll try to help !

 

I get two miles on an eeze torq on lithium when the red light comes on. I have had the bike since the summer and have ridden 69 miles - surely there must be a fault? I find 50 cycles pretty hands off when it comes to warranty help - does anyone else have problems?

Hi Susie and welcome!

 

I had this too when my Torq was new, but it seems to have bedded down nicely now and it hasn't occured again. Here is another thread that can provide you with further information:

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14

 

 

My problem is a vey loud screech when I apply the motor. I 'm also finding 50 cycles a little 'hands off' . My husbands bike is perfect.

Re the battery... Our batteries seem to last a long time, but havent done any calculations.

Hello Robert. Do you mean that after just two miles with a fully charged battery the red light first comes on? If so, and it happens when you hit a fairly steep hill, that doesn't necessarily mean a fault so long as the bike doesn't cut out. The meter records the fractional voltage changes on line as the battery discharges, but when the throttle is opened wide for a hill and speed drops, the drain on the battery also dips the voltage. If the meter returns to amber and then green afterwards when you hit the flat, there's not a problem.

 

Poor battery connections can also cause this problem, and unplugging and replugging will show whether this is to blame. For more help with connection problems, use this link:

 

http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/flecc/batteries.html#bookmark1

My range so far

 

I tried my commute route out for the first time today (Clay Cross to Sheffield). A 36 mile round trip non-stop over pretty hilly terrain with quite a lot of wind.

 

I have two batteries so I could swap for the return journey. On both legs I think I had a little juice left but I was amber and finding it difficult to stay out of red towards both ends. I only went full throttle for a few minutes each way and only downhill so the battery stayed green (it's like an arcade game watching those lights and trying to stay in the green!) Have a few steep hills where the battery dips to red for quite a while but I will change the chainring soon for a smaller one so I can help out more on the gradients. I was still very pleased though that I managed to get the Torq up the big hills in Sheffield as I was worried I'd have to push for that bit

 

I also proved I only need one battery for my commute as I can recharge at work during the day. However.... I'm still a bit nervous of being left with a dead motor (until I sort the chainring out) so I'm going to carry the spare battery for a few days yet. I hope the extra weight isn't too much of a drain on the motor or I could be defeating the object!

 

It's a credit to the Torq that I did this trip without getting jelly legs at the end or dripping in sweat. My only pains are, to put it politely, in the saddle area and not where you might expect but... well lets just say I'm glad I've already had kids Get the same problem on my MTB though so it's not the Torqs fault, I must just ride funny.

Sorry - should have said I'm still riding restricted to 15mph. I will experiment with derestricting once I've a few commutes under my belt..... I do the like the look on car drivers faces when you pull away fast

Mithril

 

I think your range will suffer quite a lot when you switch to derestricted. Don't worry about the weight of carrying a spare battery though, I've often done this and don't even notice the weight, or the inbalance of having it in one side pannier. This even remains true if I carry a NiMh which is about a kilo heavier.

 

Also, the chap who did the London to Paris run was carrying two spare batteries, and he had an injured leg.

ezee torq problems

 

Hi, the red light comes on at around 2 miles into the ride. I would like to let the bike run out of power to test the range in restricted pedel assist mode but I am sure I could not ride it back home without walking it up the hills (even though I am a fit cyclist), whilst it is currently set up with gear ratios that basically can't tackle hills even with pedal assist. As this was the point of buying the bike I am slightly fed up with it.

 

I have three main problems with the bike; 1 excessive shudder from front wheel on braking, 2 the red light problem, 3 its impossible to get up hills (compared to my normal bike, a completely standard moutain bike). I hope I can get 50 cycles to take the bike back to their workshop for a thorough inspection as I have only done 70 miles since I bought the bike in July.

OK Robert

 

First the red light is not a problem. I wish manfacturers would do as the long established e-bike makers like Heinzman and Giant do, stick the meter where it can't be seen when riding so it doesn't worry people. You see, there is no way that a battery's content can truly be measured by a meter, the only measure we have for the content is watt/hours, so it can only be measured by using up the content over time. The meters we have just measure the small voltage drop as the battery content is used up, and that's roughly good enough a measure when the bike is standing still. Trouble is, when on the move and we open the throttle wide, the current drain into the motor also drops the voltage, so that's recorded on the meter as well, nothing to do with the battery content. The equivalent on a car is when we plug the starter with headlights on, the headlights dim due to the voltage drop the motor causes. When the weather is cold, that drops the battery voltage as well, so you can see how pointless these meters really are.

 

The Li-ion batteries are nominally 37 volt, the NiMh are 36 volt. If I put the NiMh that I also have into the Torq fully charged, I can go onto the hill outside my home and get the red light on immediately, simply because it's started with a lower voltage point, nothing to do with what's in the battery. So my advice on that is, forget the meter when on the move, better still, put a strip of black PVC insulating tape over the LEDs, and just check the level when standing still. Find out your range, starting with an assumption of around 13 miles and gradually take a bit more until you find the cut out point near to home.

 

The shudder is probably just head bearing adjustment, this beds in very quickly and often loosens in the first few miles. Any cycle dealer could fix this easily.

 

However, none of this alters the fact that you have the wrong bike I'm afraid. The Torq is no hill climber, the motor is far too high geared in the 28" wheel for that. It's the equivalent of having a car locked into top gear all the time, fine for gentle main road slopes, but brought to a stall on steeper slopes. Indeed, the manual with the bike says up to 10% slopes, so anything over 1 in 10 is outside it's specification. I also have a Quando which uses the same motor in a 20" wheel, and that can pull away without pedalling up a 12% (1 in 8) hill, so you can see it's just the wheel size that's the problem. The eZee Sprint with the 7 speed hub would have been a much better choice since it's lower motor gearing makes it a better climber despite it's slightly lower power motor (500 watts against 570 watts). As you've done such a low mileage, I suggest you try to negotiate a change of model with 50cycles as the only solution that will give some satisfaction.

 

P.S. You're right about the derailleur ratios, the 58" low really being a middle gear. From a design point of view it's right of course, since the gears need to match the motor gearing so that a rider can give help within the motor's operating range. However, that gearing emphasizes that the bike is not a hill climber. Changing the chainwheel from the 52 teeth to 48 would help slightly, but not very much.

Edited November 6, 200619 yr by flecc

Thanks flecc - you put my mind at ease about the extra weight. I bungee my spare on the rack, then put the panniers on top of it which makes it a pain to get to obviously. I did try to put the battery in one of the panniers but it's too big for mine.

 

I'll probably just derestrict one weekend and go out for a play rather than risk my commute then!

 

 

Mithril

 

I think your range will suffer quite a lot when you switch to derestricted. Don't worry about the weight of carrying a spare battery though, I've often done this and don't even notice the weight, or the inbalance of having it in one side pannier. This even remains true if I carry a NiMh which is about a kilo heavier.

 

Also, the chap who did the London to Paris run was carrying two spare batteries, and he had an injured leg.

That's what I've done to ascertain ranges, go out on pleasure jaunts, taking a spare battery with me and keeping within twelve direct miles of home.

Hi there,

 

I've not yet had the opportunity to try a torq and I'm not sure how well this mod would work with torq's wiring and battery management system but as a generality if your taking 2 battery packs its better to connect them in parallel and discharge from both packs at the same time. By doing so you would have the loses from internal resistance in both packs. see here http://www.50cycles.com/info_lith.shtml

 

I imagine that if the bike is restricted this would translate in two more than twice the range. Whereas if you its derestricted much of the extra energy would be used up as higher speed and greater acceleration.

Baboonking

 

The efficiency would be greater with the two in parallel, just as it would if it had one battery of twice the capacity. In both cases however, the result would be a doubling of range, there would be no meaningful increase in speed on level ground when derestricted since it's voltage derived maximum is already being reached at approximately 22 mph. Current (amps) don't affect ultimate motor speed at all, and connecting in parallel just increases the current delivery potential. The speed up steeper hills could be increased just a little since the chemical exhaustion that the Torq Li-ion suffers in high drain conditions would not be present so power would be maintained rather than falling away.

 

Connecting the two batteries in series instead to give about 72 volts would make the Torq go very fast indeed for a few seconds, after which it would probably go bang instead.

Edited November 7, 200619 yr by flecc

True,

 

But don't forget voltage sag from the internal resistance of the battery. I tried this recently with my currie system. Before i had one 24 volt 13AH pack now I have 2 24 volt 13AH packs in parallel. With the packs in parallel I have gained at extra 2 mph. The pack voltage now only drops one by less than 1 volt at maximum speed on the flats. whereas before there was slightly more sag. Like you say the big difference is on the hills, higher amp draw and the pack maintains its voltage.

 

Overall quite an improvement over swapping between packs.

That's quite true on many bikes, and especially motors like the Currie with those small capacity batteries which drop voltage easily under demand, but the Torq's Crystallyte is quite different. There's a substantial drop in motor demand as the revs rise, at 22 mph it's surprisingly low, so the gain would be smaller. That's why I said "no meaningful increase", acknowledging there'd be some, but not enough to concern us. As you say though, using two in parallel is always better overall.

Edited November 7, 200619 yr by flecc

Re. range from Torq with Li ion battery

 

I did a reasonably scientific test test on this when I first got the bike. Ran it three times from full charge to flat with no assist. The route involved one large hill (Alexander Palace). Figures were:

 

31.5 Km (19.5miles)

34.5 Km (21.5 miles)

32.5 Km (20 miles)

 

These figures are pure battery with no relevant pedalling.

 

David

Re. Torq range de-restricted

 

I don't now remember whether the above figures were before or after I de-restricted the bike; but certainly I haven't noticed any significant drop in range since de-restricting and the bike is infinitely more fun. I certainly won't be going back to restricted mode.

 

David

Hello David

 

They look like restricted figures in my experience, derestricted tend to be more in the 15 to 18 miles area in most areas. Your conclusion regarding the fun of the derestricted Torq is almost universal, few return to restricted once having changed, though occasionally a commuter does due to the extra range of restricted enabling a journey on one battery.

 

P.S. I notice you're using kilometres, is that because you haven't switched the setting on your Velo 5 speedo?

Edited November 8, 200619 yr by flecc

Yeah, 15 mph seems so slow now! I've tried riding it at this speed a few times but it's just not satisfying so it's time to open the throttle

 

thanks

Jed

Yes, it's weird isn't it. Pedalling a normal bike at 15 mph seems very satisfying, plenty fast enough and we think we're doing well, but on an electric it's actually tedious. On the Quando folder it's maddening. After the initial peak of voltage gives about 16 to 17 mph for a few minutes, it settles to about 14 to 15 mph. But that's just beyond pedal assistance on it's single speed, so I just have to sit there bored and wait for another road user to do something exciting like crash.

Derestring Torq

 

I'm intending to check out my range derestricted at the weekend (obviously on private land ) and I've heard it's a very straightforward process, but... could someone tell me where the restrictor is on the Torq please?

 

Many thanks.

Yes of course mithril. Turn the bike upside down and you'll see some wiring joins under the bottom bracket. Two of them are through joins from parts of the bike to the controller, but one is a stub going nowhere. Latest models have a plug that can be disconnected, but earlier ones need the insulation cut away. Inside there's a tiny terminal block with a wire looping between the two terminals. Just unplug the pull out end and tuck it into the insulation at the side so the link is broken. Then bind the block again with insulation, job done.

Hello David

 

They look like restricted figures in my experience, derestricted tend to be more in the 15 to 18 miles area in most areas. Your conclusion regarding the fun of the derestricted Torq is almost universal, few return to restricted once having changed, though occasionally a commuter does due to the extra range of restricted enabling a journey on one battery.

 

P.S. I notice you're using kilometres, is that because you haven't switched the setting on your Velo 5 speedo?

And there was me wondering why everybody is quoting in miles ;-)

 

How do I change the setting?

 

Many thanks

 

David

Hello David

 

To do this you have to start at the beginning by removing the battery which loses the current total mileage. Then put the battery back in and you'll see the kph indicator. Press the setting lever once and it changes to mph. Then on the back of the Velo 5, use a pointed object to press the grey recessed small button once briefly. Then it's ready for use, and clock setting if desired. The clock with mph is a 12 hour one, the 24 hour one being only with kph, the manufacturers apparently believing only Continentals can cope with a 24 hour clock!

Edited November 9, 200619 yr by flecc