Help! Mid Hub motor or front wheel motor?

[goral]

Hi
I would ask for your advice on choosing an e-bike kit.
What to choose? Mid hub motor or front wheel motor?
I'm looking for something that will give me the freedom to ride a minimum of 20 miles on rather flat terrain, I don't intend to ride off road apart from small bits.
My budget is £700 to £750
If possible, I'd also like a recommendation on specific kits, as there's so much out there, at different prices, that it's hard for someone new to e-bikes to make them understand.
The bike to be converted is more likely to be a mid-range older city/road bike.
My objectives are:
Riding distances of about 20 miles, definitely on paved, tarmac roads but not public roads. Mainly as a combination of pleasure and exercise.
I am focusing on a 1000W or 1500W ebike and a 48V/52V 20Ah battery for long rides.
Thanks sincerely for any advice.

 

[V1ffer]

1-1.5KW seems incredibly overpowered unless you're going to fit it out as an e-moped (throttle)

I've used both mid and hub motors and there isn't a massive difference between them. Advocates will say that mid motors give better balance, but tbh you won't notice much difference on roads.

The biggest difference for me is between cadence sensors (just moving the pedals) and torque sensors (gives power depending on how hard you are pushing). Even the cheapest torque sensors are a million times more efficient and natural feeling.

 

[Saracen]

Have you googled Hub motor V Mid drive

MID is best, ok you will get those who say otherwise, I prefer to listen to those who really know, and yes I tried front and rear before getting two mid conversions.

I go OFF road, road, steep hills "Wales" and so on, hence mid drive, also I have gears, and try changing a wheel or full innertube's with hub drive, unbolting no skewers, taking off cables in the rain good luck.

As fo the hub lovers, your choice, good I am glad you like them mid is best according to so many more

Do I Need a Hub Drive or a Mid-Drive Motor?

Which ebike system is best for you: a hub drive or a mid-drive motor? You’ll want to consider cost, use case, and the motor’s location on the bike, among other factors.

www.cyclevolta.com

.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/123lg6y

eBike Hub Motor vs Mid Motor : The Pros and Cons - Royal Dutch Bikes Gazelle

There are two types of motor systems when it comes to ebikes, mid drive and hub drive. Read about the pros and cons of each and why Gazelle choses mid drive.

www.gazellebikes.com

Mid-Drive vs Hub-Drive Electric Bike Motors: Pros & Cons

Mid-drive and hub-drive electric bike motors have different effects on your ride. Here are the pros and cons of each choice.

ebikes.org

 

[saneagle]

Even the cheapest torque sensors are a million times more efficient

Sorry, but we need to nip that one in the bud. There is plenty of assumption and street talk from people that don't think too clearly, but it's just an urban myth. In 14 years of dealing with ebikes and posting and reading all the main ebike forums, I've never seen any evidence that shows that torque sensors are more efficient. Also, it depends on your definition of efficiency. If you mean mechanical efficiency in converting battery energy to motive energy, you're going to struggle to justify that statement. If you mean ride from one place to another with the least effort for yourself, you're clearly wrong.

 

[Saracen]

1-1.5KW seems incredibly overpowered unless you're going to fit it out as an e-moped (throttle)

I've used both mid and hub motors and there isn't a massive difference between them. Advocates will say that mid motors give better balance, but tbh you won't notice much difference on roads.

The biggest difference for me is between cadence sensors (just moving the pedals) and torque sensors (gives power depending on how hard you are pushing). Even the cheapest torque sensors are a million times more efficient and natural feeling.

Take your hub drive off road, against any mid drive, good luck X country or steep hills

 

[Saracen]

Generally speaking, most e-bike riders who have tried both a torque sensor and a cadence sensor will pivot toward choosing the former. Why? Speaking broadly, they tend to offer a more natural and seamless ride rather than one that feels more like it’s controlling you.

Again google them

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/in-depth/e-bike-tech-explained-torque-sensor-or-cadence-sensor#:~:text=A%20key%20point%20to%20conclude,intend%20to%20cover%20mileage%20often

.

 

[Cadence]

Take your hub drive off road, against any mid drive, good luck X country or steep hills

So you didn't actually read the OP's requirements then?
"I'm looking for something that will give me the freedom to ride a minimum of 20 miles on rather flat terrain, I don't intend to ride off road apart from small bits."

 

[Brik]

Hi
I would ask for your advice on choosing an e-bike kit.

A few things spring to mind.
Why have you ruled out rear wheel motors?
Do you really need a 1000 watt + motor? 30 mph isn't fun on an old push bike.
I would find a local supplier who can advise before you buy.
I've not used them but I believe Whoosh have a good reputation...

Woosh Bikes - Online Shop

Online shopping for electric bikes and conversion kits. All models are in stock unless otherwise indicated on the web page and can be despatched on the same day or next business day. We will email you the tracking link as soon as the item has been despatched.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[thelarkbox]

I have a rebuilt conversion you can buy for £250 without the battery (that, i bought new and would want full reimbursement for) Not a quality bike, steel frame, sprung front forks in not the best condition but working, mechanical (cable) disk brakes 1000w rear hub direct drive motor 48v 28a controller 2 x brake motor cut off sensors twist throttle 1/2 grip No gears p900 display iirc not fitted using a coin sized cheap chinese speedo for 'stealth'

I dont know top speed I stopped at 27-8mph iirc i weigh in over 90kg Not a fun ride at top speeds zero 'wee' factor, all 'oh poop,oh poop oh poop' .
At the top end all the zip and acceleration has gone and its a slow climb in speed if you can grit your teeth enough..

It came to me for rebuilding after it was in an accident it had no brake sensors at that time and the motor had ripped itself from the wheel.

your welcome to come and test ride it I doubt you would want it.

If you did want to buy it i would need you to sign proof you know its a piece of **** death trap unsuitable for use. edit CASH ONLY

 

[V1ffer]

Sorry, but we need to nip that one in the bud. There is plenty of assumption and street talk from people that don't think too clearly, but it's just an urban myth. In 14 years of dealing with ebikes and posting and reading all the main ebike forums, I've never seen any evidence that shows that torque sensors are more efficient.

I find that statement extraordinary. There is so much evidence for this, it even makes logical sense with the torque sensor able to give more proportional power rather than just spraying all or nothing. I've attached a few links that will help.

Understanding E-Bike Motors: A Guide to Cadence and Torque Sensors

Uncover the mystery of e-bike motor systems! Compare cadence & torque sensors, make an informed choice, and ride with confidence.

ebikes.org

.

Torque sensors vs. cadence sensors for electric bikes: Which one is right for you?

When it comes to choosing an e-bike, you'll often hear about cadence sensors and torque sensors as two different options available.

electrek.co

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/in-depth/e-bike-tech-explained-torque-sensor-or-cadence-sensor

Although my experience is not a representative sample , I have had two cadence sensor bikes and one torque sensor bike, and the difference is night and day. On similar power motors and batteries, the cadence sensors were giving 30-35 mile ranges, and the torque sensor gives 50-55 miles, all on equivilent pedal assist (the 2nd power).

 

[Nealh]

For 20 miles flat terrain then a hub front 250 motor will be more then adequate for road use , these guys who tell you not to use one one have never tried them for extended periods of time or usage so they have little clue.
Ideally though one needs to use nos suspension and steel front forks.

Use a KT torque/current control controller or possibly one of the new Woosh TS cranks.
My front hub as I have beaten the drum so many times regarding it tows a 100kg trailer on on rail access routes , no loss of traction or scrabble unless one hoones around .
Roadrat Alfine 8 with G370 hub build. | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community

Finding a decent kit may be the issue though , forget swytch as CS is lousy and the kits way over priced.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

For 20 miles flat terrain then a hub front 250 motor will be more then adequate for road use , these guys who tell you not to use one one have never tried them for extended periods of time or usage so they have little clue.
Ideally though one needs to use nos suspension and steel front forks.

Use a KT torque/current control controller or possibly one of the new Woosh TS cranks.
My front hub as I have beaten the drum so many times regarding it tows a 100kg trailer on on rail access routes , no loss of traction or scrabble unless one hoones around .
Roadrat Alfine 8 with G370 hub build. | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community

Finding a decent kit may be the issue though , forget swytch as CS is lousy and the kits way over priced.

Woosh do a front hub kit (xf07) with torque sensor and power based controller and battery from £449

Woosh hub kit with torque sensor

Woosh torque sensor kit with choice of front or rear hub motors. Convert your bike easily into an electric bike in record time.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[Nealh]

I find that statement extraordinary. There is so much evidence for this, it even makes logical sense with the torque sensor able to give more proportional power rather than just spraying all or nothing. I've attached a few links that will help.

Understanding E-Bike Motors: A Guide to Cadence and Torque Sensors

Uncover the mystery of e-bike motor systems! Compare cadence & torque sensors, make an informed choice, and ride with confidence.

ebikes.org

.

Torque sensors vs. cadence sensors for electric bikes: Which one is right for you?

When it comes to choosing an e-bike, you'll often hear about cadence sensors and torque sensors as two different options available.

electrek.co

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/in-depth/e-bike-tech-explained-torque-sensor-or-cadence-sensor

Although my experience is not a representative sample , I have had two cadence sensor bikes and one torque sensor bike, and the difference is night and day. On similar power motors and batteries, the cadence sensors were giving 30-35 mile ranges, and the torque sensor gives 50-55 miles, all on equivilent pedal assist (the 2nd power).

A cadence sensor is all about the control unit used. If speed control then they are very abrupt and basic often giving a terrible ride experience , ride a bike with current control then the ride is far far better . It is fair to say that 90% or more of hub cadence sensor bikes sold use a redementry crappy 3 speed control.
KT controllers are another kettle of fish.

 

[saneagle]

Although my experience is not a representative sample , I have had two cadence sensor bikes and one torque sensor bike, and the difference is night and day. On similar power motors and batteries, the cadence sensors were giving 30-35 mile ranges, and the torque sensor gives 50-55 miles, all on equivilent pedal assist (the 2nd power).

Those links are the misjudged opinions I was talking about, not evidence. Of course you get more range when you have to pedal harder.

I did some tests on my bike. I turned it up to maximum and drained the battery to in about 15 miles, then I turned down the power to minimum and drained the battery in the very next rides to get 129 miles range. What does that tell you about my pedal senssor? Is it more or less efficient than yours?