Fastest bike ever and cant wait till he fits an etek motor to it lol
YouTube - High speed bike, BIG CRASH! (english version)
YouTube - High speed bike, BIG CRASH! (english version)
11000 watts/60 mph bike on ebay
- Thread starter stevebills
- Start date
60 mph on a relatively flimsy ebike is clearly nuts. But owning an ebike that has electrical assistance with the potential to slightly exceed 15.5 mph is hardly a serious crime.
The most you can legally do on a motorway is 70 mph but the majority of cars can generously exceed this. Power in cars that are not even exotic are effortless in exceeding the limit because everyone recognises that such power is useful for accelerating out of trouble, keeping a decent speed up steep hills, and coping with large loads.
The corollary with ebike regulations would be that each and every car, or motorbike, is manufactured so that it is impossible to exceed 70 mph, by putting some kind of speed governer on the car's transmission. If cars can routinely achieve 100 mph yet the speed limit is 30 mph slower, does it really matter if an ebike can potentially exceed a limit of 15 mph by a few miles per hour more?
That is in essence what we have with ebikes. As with almost all laws of this kind, the regulations are there to deal with the absolute lowest common denominator. Such laws never allow for intelligent or sensible people, but always legislate for the nutters who would routinely abuse any flexibility in the law.
Does it really matter that my fully charged battery is capable of propelling me to 17.5 mph if I judge that it is safe to do so?
As has been pointed out, many fit cyclists regularly travel at between 20 and 25 mph. I see no difference whatsoever in terms of safety between an ebike doing that speed and a pedal bike. The key to all this is judgement of speed according to circumstances, and I think anything up to 20 mph is perfectly reasonable given ideal conditions.
15.5 mph can itself be potential dangerous, and even 12 mph might be so on a crowded cycle path with many pedestrians. Far more relevant than sheer speed is the notion of due care and attention, something that the speed legislation appears to ignore. I therefore think 20 mph is a perfectly acceptable top speed, but of course only when it is safe to do so.
The proposed ban on throttle control in favour of the EU preferred pedal assist only, is in my view stupid. Many ebikes have limited control over the amount of pedal assist power, having an ON or OFF mode without three incremental controls. In my view a throttle gives infinitely safer control over speed, and should always be an option if desired by the rider.
I think the regulations are seeking to over-react to ebikes in a way that would never be applied to cars. If regulators want to really get obsessed with health and safety they would do well to divert their attention to motorbikes and cars that can accelerate incredibly quickly and then sustain speeds more than twice the current speed limit, and I say this as a motorcycle rider.
Of course there is also a point to be made about tax revenues. European governments are in many case pretending to promote so-called carbon free travel but at the same time are totally reliant on the enormous revenues they gain from fuel and road tax. If everyone in the UK ditched cars for bicycles the treasury would be even more bankrupt than it seems to be already!
Leonard
The most you can legally do on a motorway is 70 mph but the majority of cars can generously exceed this. Power in cars that are not even exotic are effortless in exceeding the limit because everyone recognises that such power is useful for accelerating out of trouble, keeping a decent speed up steep hills, and coping with large loads.
The corollary with ebike regulations would be that each and every car, or motorbike, is manufactured so that it is impossible to exceed 70 mph, by putting some kind of speed governer on the car's transmission. If cars can routinely achieve 100 mph yet the speed limit is 30 mph slower, does it really matter if an ebike can potentially exceed a limit of 15 mph by a few miles per hour more?
That is in essence what we have with ebikes. As with almost all laws of this kind, the regulations are there to deal with the absolute lowest common denominator. Such laws never allow for intelligent or sensible people, but always legislate for the nutters who would routinely abuse any flexibility in the law.
Does it really matter that my fully charged battery is capable of propelling me to 17.5 mph if I judge that it is safe to do so?
As has been pointed out, many fit cyclists regularly travel at between 20 and 25 mph. I see no difference whatsoever in terms of safety between an ebike doing that speed and a pedal bike. The key to all this is judgement of speed according to circumstances, and I think anything up to 20 mph is perfectly reasonable given ideal conditions.
15.5 mph can itself be potential dangerous, and even 12 mph might be so on a crowded cycle path with many pedestrians. Far more relevant than sheer speed is the notion of due care and attention, something that the speed legislation appears to ignore. I therefore think 20 mph is a perfectly acceptable top speed, but of course only when it is safe to do so.
The proposed ban on throttle control in favour of the EU preferred pedal assist only, is in my view stupid. Many ebikes have limited control over the amount of pedal assist power, having an ON or OFF mode without three incremental controls. In my view a throttle gives infinitely safer control over speed, and should always be an option if desired by the rider.
I think the regulations are seeking to over-react to ebikes in a way that would never be applied to cars. If regulators want to really get obsessed with health and safety they would do well to divert their attention to motorbikes and cars that can accelerate incredibly quickly and then sustain speeds more than twice the current speed limit, and I say this as a motorcycle rider.
Of course there is also a point to be made about tax revenues. European governments are in many case pretending to promote so-called carbon free travel but at the same time are totally reliant on the enormous revenues they gain from fuel and road tax. If everyone in the UK ditched cars for bicycles the treasury would be even more bankrupt than it seems to be already!
Leonard
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And of course all cars would also need to have a uniform, or not exceed a nominal power output.
Some interesting points Leonard.
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I'm sorry, but to try to make this sort of comparison is total rubbish.
Ebikes are not classed as motor vehicles. There is no tax, no compulsory insurance, no compulsory helmet, no licence needed to use a legal ebike on the road.
That is the difference - but the continued abuse of the law by those of you that have no respect for it, and seem to believe that if you ignore the law it will go away are wrong and will result in all the decent law-abiding riders being punished by having all ebikes classed as motor vehicles and need a licence, tax, insurance etc.
No doubt you will also ignore any new regulations, as you probably do for any motor vehicles you currently use, because you have decided that you don't like them.
There are electric, or petrol scooters if you need 20mph without pedalling - go and buy one, although you would need to buy insurance and wear an approved helmet so I suppose that idea is right out of the question.
Colin
Ebikes are not classed as motor vehicles. There is no tax, no compulsory insurance, no compulsory helmet, no licence needed to use a legal ebike on the road.
That is the difference - but the continued abuse of the law by those of you that have no respect for it, and seem to believe that if you ignore the law it will go away are wrong and will result in all the decent law-abiding riders being punished by having all ebikes classed as motor vehicles and need a licence, tax, insurance etc.
No doubt you will also ignore any new regulations, as you probably do for any motor vehicles you currently use, because you have decided that you don't like them.
There are electric, or petrol scooters if you need 20mph without pedalling - go and buy one, although you would need to buy insurance and wear an approved helmet so I suppose that idea is right out of the question.
Colin
I trust Wally- excellent name- is in ridden within his restricted limits without the offroad capability some Wispers are/were provided with.
Exactly, the regulation strictness is necessary for everyone's safety when untested riders are involved.
It's also worth considering that in almost all countries there is no lower age limit for e-bikes, another good reason for restricting them to basic bicycle performance. I don't want to see 25 mph rich kids on shared use paths or pavements.
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keep legal on the road with your ebike guys.......
after the 15mph cut out you can go as fast as your own fitness and the gearing of the bike will allow...on the level relatively easy to get to 20mph even on a 26 kg bike.
downhill..... gearing runs out for me at 30mph but thats plenty fast enough for me on a dutch style town bike !!!!!
uphill...well thats a different story but still goes faster than the young guns on the racers up the hills where i am.
off road with due consideration for others (or go to a bike dedicated area) then you are currently free to use any level of assist you want.
trying to justify taking an ebike on the public road and using it in the full knowledge that it is breaking the law is totally irresponsible.
have fun........keep legal..........
regards
after the 15mph cut out you can go as fast as your own fitness and the gearing of the bike will allow...on the level relatively easy to get to 20mph even on a 26 kg bike.
downhill..... gearing runs out for me at 30mph but thats plenty fast enough for me on a dutch style town bike !!!!!
uphill...well thats a different story but still goes faster than the young guns on the racers up the hills where i am.
off road with due consideration for others (or go to a bike dedicated area) then you are currently free to use any level of assist you want.
trying to justify taking an ebike on the public road and using it in the full knowledge that it is breaking the law is totally irresponsible.
have fun........keep legal..........
regards
Interesting thread. I generally side with Leonard's well put view and try to cycle considerately on all my bikes thus not attracting attention from the law.
I can also see Colin's point as antisocial cycling on fast e bikes could hasten the introduction of prohibitive legislation.
I almost hope that e bikes don't become more popular so this doesn't happen. In 4 years I've only seen 2 electric bikes and I live in a town of population 60,000. I Just don't think your ever going to get people out of their tin boxes, especially in this weather.
I can also see Colin's point as antisocial cycling on fast e bikes could hasten the introduction of prohibitive legislation.
I almost hope that e bikes don't become more popular so this doesn't happen. In 4 years I've only seen 2 electric bikes and I live in a town of population 60,000. I Just don't think your ever going to get people out of their tin boxes, especially in this weather.
Agreed Flecc. Unfortunately they just don't seem to be catching on in my part of the country, despite me extolling their virtues at every opportunity.
Seems we get a mention on Endless-sphere i copied this posting off there!
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A pity that Jeremy doesn't realise that we are well aware of the current status of our e-bikes vis-a-vis power.
The difference is that most of the bikes we use are restricted to legal speed limits or not capable of much more under power alone anyway. Our supposedly holier-than-thou attitudes are comments on the bikes that flagrantly breach the whole gamut of e-bike laws.
Where rational views are concerned, I'd rank the pedelecs forum above Endless Sphere any day.
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But appearances are misleading, It takes millions of cars for us to see them all the while for example.Agreed Flecc. Unfortunately they just don't seem to be catching on in my part of the country, despite me extolling their virtues at every opportunity.
In 43 years here I've never seen another e-bike ridden in my very large London Borough, just once seen a brand new Powabyke pushed and once seen a Lafree parked. But Croydon now has a specialist e-bike only dealer and two other bike shops selling e-bikes as well, so they must be selling to a fair number of people.
However, even in dozens they would be a drop in the ocean in a borough of over 350,000 people, hundreds of miles of streets, at least 100,000 local cars, plus cars pouring through from all other parts. To occasionally see e-bikes ridden in such an area they'd have to be in many dozens used daily for substantial journeys, or many hundreds used occasionally for odd shopping trips and the like
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Thanks flecc and stevebills.
flecc, I think you and I know full well that the majority of UK ebikes are significantly over the legal power limit, particularly those fitted with hub motors and the majority of the add-on kits that are available.
As I think you also know, I view the motor output power restriction as something that's a bit arcane and unenforceable from the perspective of the police and courts. A simple maximum power assist speed restriction, with no other limitations, would be a far more sensible way to frame this legislation.
To amplify my previously copied comment, anyone here who is riding an ebike that can deliver more than about 9 or 10A from a 36V battery is almost certainly riding a moped, not a bicycle. For those with 48V batteries, you might possibly argue the case that 7 or 8 amps could just be legal - if you motor draws more than this then you too are riding a moped.
Truly legal ebikes, that fall wholly within the provisions of the UK EAPC regulations, are rare, in my view. The Panasonic powered bikes probably comply, along with one or two others, but almost all the hub motored bikes are almost certainly technically mopeds and illegal unless they are registered, fitted with number plates, taxed (at zero rate) and insured.
If anyone doubts this, I will quite happily come along and do some simple power measurements to prove it. Even the very poorest electric motor and controller is unlikely to be less than around 75% efficient (most will be around 85% efficienct), so 250 watts power output at the motor shaft (which is how the UK regulations are framed) equates to an input power of no more than about 330 watts, even using the most generous allowance for losses.
Jeremy
flecc, I think you and I know full well that the majority of UK ebikes are significantly over the legal power limit, particularly those fitted with hub motors and the majority of the add-on kits that are available.
As I think you also know, I view the motor output power restriction as something that's a bit arcane and unenforceable from the perspective of the police and courts. A simple maximum power assist speed restriction, with no other limitations, would be a far more sensible way to frame this legislation.
To amplify my previously copied comment, anyone here who is riding an ebike that can deliver more than about 9 or 10A from a 36V battery is almost certainly riding a moped, not a bicycle. For those with 48V batteries, you might possibly argue the case that 7 or 8 amps could just be legal - if you motor draws more than this then you too are riding a moped.
Truly legal ebikes, that fall wholly within the provisions of the UK EAPC regulations, are rare, in my view. The Panasonic powered bikes probably comply, along with one or two others, but almost all the hub motored bikes are almost certainly technically mopeds and illegal unless they are registered, fitted with number plates, taxed (at zero rate) and insured.
If anyone doubts this, I will quite happily come along and do some simple power measurements to prove it. Even the very poorest electric motor and controller is unlikely to be less than around 75% efficient (most will be around 85% efficienct), so 250 watts power output at the motor shaft (which is how the UK regulations are framed) equates to an input power of no more than about 330 watts, even using the most generous allowance for losses.
Jeremy
I know flecc has said something similar before, but I think his point was that the openly higher than legal power bikes do more harm to electric bike riders reputation than those that pay lip service to being meeting the legal requirements. If I understood correctly? At least that's the jist I got when I questioned my Cyclamatic's ability to assist to 19mph.
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