2014 KTM E-CROSS p review

[EddiePJ]

Firstly can I thank KTM Bike Industries UK for allowing me the use of a 2014 KTM E-CROSSp to try out and with their permission review. Thank you for trusting me.

An overview of the 2014 KTM E-CROSSp

Whilst I'll be writing a singular review about this bike, I thought that I'd also share an open review for it, and as I settle into the bike, both my thoughts and experience of it shall be added to this thread.

The bike arrived two days ago, and after unpacking it, checking it over and making sure that the battery was fully charged, it seemed silly not to take it out for a short spin to familiarize myself with it.
My first impressions of the bike are exceedingly favourable, and whilst I had already anticipated a high quality finish for the frame, it still surpassed my expectations.

As a whole the cycle parts are very good, with some very nice touches, such as the adjustable steering stem, and the superb Selle Royal Freccia saddle, which is comfortable from the off and stays that way.
I'm also a fan of the OE Schwalbe Marathon Mondial tyres fitted to the bike, and as usual they handle very predictably and safely.

The Shimano Deore/XT drive train feels instantly correct, with precise and smooth changes throughout. Whilst the bike is fitted with a triple set of 48-36-26, I think that if I was to own the bike, then I'd swap out for a double (size to be listed). This opinion might change as riding time rises.
Again as expected, the Tektro Auriga brakes do a superb job of pulling the bike up safely and predictably. I can't say that I like the white colour of them, but that is just my personal taste.
Forks! As you will know I'm not a fan of Suntour coil only sprung forks, but whilst the SF14 NCX-D LO 700C forks fitted to this bike do rattle slightly, they still perform an adequate job. They also seem to lack the gravity magnet of the similarly equipped Haibike eq Xduro cross forks, and the front end is surprisingly light and nimble.

On the subject of the Haibike, I'll 'try' to save comparisons between the two bikes and that of the BH with its hub drive until the end of the review period.

Over the next couple of weeks, I shall also add details and thoughts in relation to daily practicalities of the bike, but I already have a feeling that this bike would make a good all-rounder, from lengthy road rides, to shopping trips and commuting, as well weekend trips along bridleways and cycle paths.
I shall take an in-depth look at the motor and battery aspect of the bike as well, but for now, here is my first ride experience of the bike.

After familiarizing myself with the console, I decided to first set off with no assist, in order to see how the bike rides as a regular pedal-only bike. It hides it's weight of 21.4kg very well, and at no stage did I find myself needing the granny ring. Obviously that is a situation that cannot be predicted though, and it's handy to know that it's there should it be required.

For this first ride, I just played with settings, so it is too soon to format a realistic appraisal of each mode.
Setting off for my first ride, brought back that lovely familiar feel of a quality hub drive, and the near silence was a once more welcome note. After initial setting off, only the noise of the tyres could be heard.

I had only intended to put in a few miles, and was completely shocked when I returned with near on half the battery left, and a distance of 29 miles covered. I felt like I'd only ridden to the top of the road and back.
The hill climbing ability of this bike is quite phenomenal, and it blows the Bosch mid drive into the weeds*, and even slightly embarrasses the Dapu motor as fitted to the BH. I'll put some stats for this up as well at some stage, but what I will say is that on a 1 mile climb that rises 124 meters with an average gradient of 7.8% with a steepest section of 14% I found myself accelerating up it, changing up through the gears laughing to myself. It's that good.

One interesting aspect of the hub drive that I hadn't previously been aware off, is how well the system puts power to the ground when conditions become muddy/greasy.
The KTM with its Panasonic hub motor, makes far better use of grip than the Haibike with its Bosch mid drive.
This comparison was noted, as I rode the same route the day before on the Haibike with its Bosch mid drive, and it span up everywhere struggling for grip, whereas today's ride on the KTM even after a nights rain, gave a predictable and sure footed ride, with scarcely any loss of traction.
Whether the torque is being directed better I'm not sure, but there is certainly a noticeable difference between the two.

I realise that the bike is not intended for off road use in the full sense of the word, but this bike really does try to bring out the dark side in you. Something that I'm just about managing to contain! It's very agile, reacts very quickly to even the slightest input on the bars, and inspires great confidence. Despite the greasy mud on the tracks that I rode, along with the various wet and surface tree roots, at no stage did I feel the need to unclip from my pedals. I simply trusted that the bike was going to track true, and it did. I also feel that the slender curved shape of the rear stays, might take a slight bit of the sting out of the bike over bumps.

My initial thoughts in relation to riding the bike on the road are that the bike as supplied is slightly too small for me, as I somehow felt cramped. This wasn't something that I noticed off road.
With a very nice adjustable steering stem, and the availability of adjustment for saddle position, I hope to try to sort this out.

Okay, that is the first very enjoyable ride out of the way, which has already shown me what a good bike that this is. I have spotted a few design details that could be worked upon, but again, I'd rather save these for later reading.

*based upon my owning and riding experience with Bosch system.

 

[EddiePJ]

In relation to specifications for the KTM E-CROSSp (hopefully) attached below are some pdf's

 

[Wicky]

Interesting to see how you find the e-Cross Eddie, as it seems quite similar in many respects to my E-race. I can confirm the mad chortling when zooming uphill with slick up gear changes. Easy to keep in the power/torque band with a light footed cadence for any hill I've shown it to keep a steady 14-15mph pace. I've changed my tires from OEM Racing Ralphs to Big Apple Pluses for a more road going bias, and better puncture protection after RR deflated from a puncture while simply pushing it through town!

 

[EddiePJ]

Hill climbing is definitely something that these bike excel at. Your comment nudged my memory a bit. You really have to chase through the gears on hills to keep up with the forward momentum of the bike.
Sadly the bike doesn't quite have the same 'over run' on the motor that the BH has. If anything on this particular bike, the power cuts just short to soon.
Having said that, at least the bike remains compliant in respect of UK law.

Not knowing how your bike rides, one aspect of the hub motor that I do like, is the slight bit of free assist that you get after you have stopped pedalling. In an off road situation, such as what your bike has been designed for, it can be enough to just about get you through or over an obstacle that might otherwise have prevented you from pedalling.
Try it the next time that you are out. Give a swift burst for half a pedal stroke, and then stop. If it works, you might well be able to put it good use one day.

Just out of interest, does your bike also have shrader inner tube fitment. I was quite pleased when I saw that the E-CROSSp came with Shrader over Presta.

A photo from yesterday evenings ride to the pub, to gauge opinions from the lads of the local motorcycle club. The comments towards the bike were very favourable, and a fair bit of interest was given to it. I think that having the KTM badge probably helped.

The bike is now fitted a Fenix BT20 front light, and Topeak rear light.

 

[Wicky]

I did notice the over-run assist - which comes in handy on a ride into town where there's a pedestrian/cycle way underpass with a sharp uphiill switchback and this feature helps negotiate this.

As for inner tubes mine were Schwalbe with presta valves, with both replaced due to multiple patches from its time as a demo. Seems the Rolling Ralphs it came fitted with while light weight offer little or no puncture protection.

Not knowing how your bike rides, one aspect of the hub motor that I do like, is the slight bit of free assist that you get after you have stopped pedalling. In an off road situation, such as what your bike has been designed for, it can be enough to just about get you through or over an obstacle that might otherwise have prevented you from pedalling.

 

[kinega]

Hill climbing is definitely something that these bike excel at. Your comment nudged my memory a bit. You really have to chase through the gears on hills to keep up with the forward momentum of the bike.
Sadly the bike doesn't quite have the same 'over run' on the motor that the BH has. If anything on this particular bike, the power cuts just short to soon.
Having said that, at least the bike remains compliant in respect of UK law.

Not knowing how your bike rides, one aspect of the hub motor that I do like, is the slight bit of free assist that you get after you have stopped pedalling. In an off road situation, such as what your bike has been designed for, it can be enough to just about get you through or over an obstacle that might otherwise have prevented you from pedalling.
Try it the next time that you are out. Give a swift burst for half a pedal stroke, and then stop. If it works, you might well be able to put it good use one day.

Just out of interest, does your bike also have shrader inner tube fitment. I was quite pleased when I saw that the E-CROSSp came with Shrader over Presta.

A photo from yesterday evenings ride to the pub, to gauge opinions from the lads of the local motorcycle club. The comments towards the bike were very favourable, and a fair bit of interest was given to it. I think that having the KTM badge probably helped.

The bike is now fitted a Fenix BT20 front light, and Topeak rear light.

good review. Interesting your thoughts on better traction than the hub-drive.
Jealous you had the opportunity to try this!

 

[trex]

good review. Interesting your thoughts on better traction than the hub-drive.
Jealous you had the opportunity to try this!

better traction than the Bosch classic crank drive, not all crank drives.
The P hub motor has 40NM maxium torque. I noted in their leaflet that the the controller is programmed for powerful start, meaning possibly that maximum torque is delivered right at the start.
The Ezee (80NM) and BPM (65NM) motors will easily deliver more than the P hub (40NM), but most Chinese controllers are programmed for soft start.

 

[EddiePJ]

As I said, it could also be that the available torque is being directed better.

I perhaps didn't phrase the statement very well, and it could simply be a case that KTM have put more effort into their frame design, in order to ensure that traction isn't lost. Certainly the frame feels very forgiving when compared to both the Haibike and the BH, so who knows.

 

[Sp00k]

Like really? Who needs physics?
Bosch has 60NM before gearing that delivers insane power on a very low speed and steepest climbs possible and can get you over 50 km/h as long as you have enough gears
I usually find that I lack traction of my AMT tires than lacking power when going uphill And If I get stuck on such climb I usually fly down because it is almost impossible to stand on it.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Where is the 60nM of torque from the Bosch? Is it on the front sprocket or the rear wheel in first gear?

The hub-motors make their torque regardless of which gear they're in, which is probably what makes the difference between the Panasonic hub-motor and the Bosch.

 

[EddiePJ]

Where is the 60nM of torque from the Bosch? Is it on the front sprocket or the rear wheel in first gear?

I wondered exactly the same..

Anyway back on to the review, I took advantage yesterday evening to drag a very keen road cyclist out with me, to help format a comparison between the KTM and the Haibike.
The lads average weekly road mileage is close to 300 miles, and one thing is for sure, he didn't need the assist of either bike, and certainly 'tried' to put the regen to the test.
We rode 28 miles of mixed terrain, and I made full use of having the extra rider along to prove that my theory of the either the KTM having better frame design, or that it makes better use of available torque when things get slippery.
I didn't tell the lad that was with me what I intended to do, but one part of the route consisted of a 14% gradient 1/2 mile long bridleway, that was hard packed, but due to rain the night before last, had become very slippery on the upper 25mm or so of top surface.
I was on the Haibike and him on the KTM. Setting off from the bottom the KTM just shot off with scarcely even a hint of wheel spin, whilst the Haibike almost failed to move, and just span up. The lad instantly commented on the amount of spin from the Haibike, and from this point, we kept stopping and starting, using different power settings for each bike, and the result was the same with each try. We also swapped bikes and carried out the test again, with exactly the same result.
To me the results of test spoke for themselves. The Haibike eq cross is not efficient at putting its power down.

The on road appraisal was more tricky to gauge due to the lads fitness, and I simply struggled which ever bike that I was on, and couldn't even begin to make ground on him.

We did both agree that the Haibike, made a better road bike, from the perspective of un assisted riding, and it's certainly faster when it comes to free wheeling. Again we tried this time and time again swapping bikes, and each time it wasn't very long before the Haibike made good ground.

Sitting outside the pub, I asked the lad for his feeling over which bike that he would buy, if he had to choose one.
We had both already come to the conclusion that the KTM is a better bike in any off road situation, and that rider fitness or lack of it aside, the Haibike made for a better road bike. I have to say though, that I was always relieved to jump onto the KTM after riding the Haibike, simply because it requires so much less effort to ride, and I could have a bit of a rest!

We both reached the same conclusion though, that on build quality alone, the KTM would be the bike to buy. Owning the Haibike, it certainly lacks the quality of finish and durability feel that the KTM has.

This isn't to say that the KTM doesn't have it's faults though, and one of them is common with both bikes. Suntour forks!
The brake hose mount is to the rear of the fork leg, and on both bikes, the brake hose then rubs on the moving fork tube. After 470miles, wear is already showing signs of happening to the brake hose on the KTM. On the Haibike, I removed the hose mount on day one of ownership, and simply used a cable tie re positioning the hose to the side, and so avoiding hose rub.
I'll take photos later, but the top of the fork crown on the KTM isn't fairing any better, and the cables that run to the rear have already removed paintwork and are starting to wear into the alloy below.
The jury is still out in respect of the KTM control console, so I'm not currently going to comment on that, other than to say that not being able to remove it has both plus points and minus points.
The plus point being that it eliminates an extra join, and potential water ingress point. The negative being security and vandal damage, plus there is potential risk of damage in the event of the bike being turned upside down for puncture repair.
There is also a possible design issue with bikes electrics, but again I'd rather investigate this further before commenting.

Weather permitting, I'm off on the South Downs Way tomorrow, to gauge battery duration better.

A lovely evening, e-bikes, and a pint of Tribute..

 

[Wicky]

I've got quite a bit of wear from cable rubbing - as for the console it was tricky in the dark at first as I kept inadvertently switching it off! Quickly got the gist of it now… I'm quite happy the console is fixed on as its one less thing to go wrong or lose! And the first mod I did was transferring my tranz-x bar end protectors on so when the bike is turned upside down there is no chance of causing any damage.

Just got back my self from a mixed bag ride of 10 miles and despite some steep hills and a river trail averaging 15mph I haven't even dipped a bar.

Old Crafty Hen!

 

[EddiePJ]

The bike looks very nice Wicky.

I still haven't got used to the control panel yet, and from looking at other reviews, I'm not alone in finding it fiddly and awkward. On today's ride I kept finding that I turned it off when switching between modes on bumpy terrain, and must admit that it became a pain in the backside. I'm currently not sure that I could poke up with it happening all of the time.

I went out today with the sole intention of trying out the battery performance, and WOW springs to mind after todays 42mile off road ride.
The terrain was very mixed, with some particularly nasty climbs, and I was riding in standard and auto for most of the ride, with no assist on much of the downhill sections, although I did intentionally leave it in auto to let the regen do the braking for me.
After the 42 mile ride, there was still 2 bars left showing on the console display, which is very impressive, given that I also threw in a fair bit of high mode towards the end.

I'm desperately hoping that the BH battery is returned to me this week, as I am going to do the same ride again next Friday afternoon, but without my countless wrong turns!!! The KTM will trounce the BH on battery duration, but I'd really love to run a few side by side comparisons in relation to hill climbing.
Sadly these won't be that accurate though, given the major weight loss that the BH has undergone, and also the fact that it sits on off road tyres.

The route.

The start was damper than I had anticipated.




And narrow than a month or so ago. My legs are still stinging!

This is the third time that I have climbed this hill, and today it nearly finished me off. It's far steeper than it looks, the gates makesre starting an awkward affair. It was the damp/wet grass that made it harder today, as I struggled for grip on it. I still reckon that the Marathon tyres are some of the best compromise tyres out thee though.

Levelling off.

At the top of the climb.

Incredibly this is a bridleway!

Unfortunately for me, I rode this track on both sides, only to have to return and come back! Very annoying, as it was also the track that last time, gave me two instant pinch flats on the Haibike bike. I was super conscience on all of the trails today, and kept the speed right down to minimum to avoid any such issues.

And the reason for the pinch flats! The track is riddled with these.

A few random shots.

Now this is an interesting one. I was standing looking at this dew pond, when I was approached by a girl who took an interest in the bike. The ins and outs of the conversation don't matter on here, but she spotted the Panasonic hub straight away, and then proceeded to tell me a bit about e-bikes. She then asked a few questions, exchanged emails, and then kindly took the photo for me. Col, hopefully you might well receive some future contact which might potentially be of use to you.
Odd the people that you meet out in the middle of nowhere. Last time it was the guy who invented those electric pedals. He has invited me to try them out, but I just haven't got around to it yet.

Finally for today, I wasn't going to put this, but I also had a sobering emotional moment on the ride today.

I hadn't spotted The Chattri War Memorial on my last trip on The South Downs, but made a point today of visiting it.

It was very odd feeling being there in bright blue sunshine, and with birds signing.
I felt kind of guilty for being able to do such activities, and yet very grateful at the same time. I must admit that I did have a lump in the back of my throat.
Sometimes it's good to reflect upon the ultimate sacrifices that others have made, so that we can enjoy the life that we have. Thank you.

 

[Sp00k]

Ok, just a note for myself. Bosch has lower torque and this causes constant wheel spin out.
Simple question. What is the top assisted speed on a hub motor, considering there is no software limit on it.
Of course 60Nm is on a front sprocket which results in even higher torque on a rear wheel depending on a gear. Ever seen torque measured on a wheel for car? It is always engine.

 

[EddiePJ]

Simple question. What is the top assisted speed on a hub motor, considering there is no software limit on it.
.

Spook, the KTM meets all current UK legal requirements in respect of top speed, and it's all over by an indicated 15.5mph.

I'm quite happy with this for off road climbs.

 

[EddiePJ]

Being self employed, I'm able to be a bit flexible about how I use my time, so decided that as it was so nice yesterday, I'd bunk off work and take my cycling cousin, back up on the South Downs, for a late afternoon/evening 34mile ride. The sole intention of the last couple of rides has been to see how the Panasonic battery life compares with the Bosch battery. After completing several rides of similar length over the last week, the result surprised me, as I had anticipated that the Bosch would come out on top, but it didn't. There wasn't much to separate them, and the Panasonic had more battery life showing after each ride than the Bosch. I have to say that both are exceedingly good though, and I'd be 100% confident that neither would disappoint. Had the BH battery been back, I know for sure that it would require two full charges to have matched both of the above.

The ride was once again a superb one, and oddly once again I found someone that that gave me an interesting bit of info. They were working on a component (I'm not saying what) for a prototype e-bike, that Williams Grand Prix are in the process of developing. It was quite an interesting conversation, and it'll be even more interesting to see how the project works out.

Managed not to get lost this time!

8.30pm still sunny, and still 10 miles to ride.

My time with this bike is now drawing to a close, and although the bike has been slightly too small for me, I have still had a brilliant time with it, and rate it way over the Haibike. The build quality is in a different league, and I'm certain that the Haibike will long be dead and buried, before the KTM gives up.
Having this bike over the last couple of weeks, has also inspired two other people, and all being well and good, KTM will have secured two new customers, and possibly a third. ME.

Throughout this test, I've been very aware that neither of the bikes were designed for where I have taken them, and accordingly both have been ridden with due care, and both have proved to be very versatile bikes. It's also been good to have an excuse to skip work for once, and get out enjoying my favourite hobby.
It would have been nice to have performed comparisons with the hub drive of the BH as well, but as usual BH warranty is absolutely rubbish. With one week to go until the next Wiggle mtb event, this is a complete pain in the backside.

The next stage of this review will see the bike being serviced and cleaned. I'm a very fussy git when it comes to things like this, and also see it as a very good way of really getting a thorough feel a bike and it's flaws. Plus I enjoy cleaning them as much as I do riding them.

I'll post up the results.

 

[EddiePJ]

I'm going to save the cleaning and checking over fun until tomorrow.

But here is a good example as to why daily checks should be made to any bike. Given that I like to be mechanically thorough, I let myself down by not having spotted this until today. I should have known better.

One aspect of the bikes design that I'm unsure of is external connector blocks, which even after a thorough and intentional hosing down, were actually very well protected, and stayed completely bone dry. I just happen to prefer internal routing, but wouldn't let this put me off the so designed range of bikes. It's a small price to pay in order to keep the very well designed and forgiving rear end.

 

[Artstu]

Oh dear with the rear axle. I washed my bike the other day and ended up having to remove the display from the bars to clean the 7 electrical contacts, the display wasn't talking to the rest of the bike. That's a first time fault on the Bosch side in over 3,000 miles and a year.

That matt finish is certainly very tough on the frame, mine needs very clean polishing cloths so as not to leave black marks on the white finish. The frame looks as good as the day I bought it now, if not better.

 

[EddiePJ]

I have to say that this bike was a real pleasure to work on today.

One thing that makes me smile, is how people say that hub drive rear wheels are a pain to change when you get a puncture. Out on a ride, I can change the BH rear wheel in just under 5 mins, and today with the KTM suspended, it took me 20 secs to un plug everything and 48 seconds to remove the rear wheel, and exactly the same time to re fit. I can't imagine that it would take much longer than that if you needed to do it when out on a ride.
The bike is now serviced up, and looking pristine again.
I have every reason to believe that long term, this bike will wear exceedingly well and would prove to be a very reliable purchase.

You are right about the frame finish being tough, and I certainly think that it's superior to both the BH and Haibike. The welds are also far neater, as are the butted joints. KTM appear to have really put thought into the frame design of this bike. In respect of detailing a bike, I'll pm you the name of a very worthy product to buy.

What is frustrating, is that now that it's all boxed up again, and waiting to go back, I have just thought of two more people that I'd have loved to have shown it to.

After just my short spell with the bike, I'd certainly recommend the Brand to anyone.

I'll complete a summary of the bike over the next day or so.

All pristine again.

 

[Wicky]

How did you find the QR front axle? On mine the clip and washer pinged out and wouldn't stay secure when put back. I had to add an extra dome washer to keep it all in place.

As you say the rear wheel is a doddle to remove with easy access to the cable connectors. So are you going to buy one now?