A letter to my MP concerning law changes..

[morphix]

I've seen others on the forum saying they are lobbying their MP's over changes due to put through parliament shortly effecting our electric bikes.

So I decided to do the same and have just penned a letter to my MP which I've copied below... did I miss anything?

Dear MP,

I wanted to write to you about a particular issue which is currently being decided by the government following a public consultation. This concerns legislation changes governing the sale and use of electric powered bicycles (otherwise known as “e-bikes”). I own one of these e-bikes myself and have a keen interest in them and I think harmonising the UK law with EU law is a mistake. It would further restrict the design and use of these bikes on our roads which I feel is completely unnecessary and doesn't provide any benefits to the industry or road safety.

The UK already has legal restrictions on e-bikes that limit the power of the motor to 200W (although 250W is generally accepted now) and the maximum speed to 15mph. However, where our law differs from EU law is that in the UK e-bikes can be used as “pedal assisted” or “power only” which means cyclists can receive power both when pedalling and when they're not pedalling by using a throttle to move them along (to a maximum of 15mph).

EU law does not permit the use of power without pedaling, and so throttles would have to be removed from e-bikes sold and used in the UK if we harmonised our law. Electric bikes are a cheap and eco-friendly form of transport that not only supports our move towards a low-carbon economy, but also offer many other benefits such as helping people become more healthy and getting them out of cars for short journeys to reduce congestion on our roads.

For people who are elderly, unfit or have health conditions preventing them from pedalling very far, the presence of a throttle on e-bikes for “power only” is both useful and reassuring. It's also a great way to make the transition towards getting fit again as people often pedal more gradually over time once their fitness level improves.

There is also some debate in the industry and amongst e-bike users calling for a more sensible approach to the power and speed restrictions on e-bikes. The restrictions which are currently in place do make it difficult for many bikes to climb steep hills which is a particular problem in some hilly parts of the country.

I believe the government has ignored calls for moving the maximum motor power legal limit from 200W to 350W which is unfortunate as I think 350W is a more sensible limit for the UK which is very hilly compared to some flat countries in mainland Europe. It has also been suggested that increasing the limit to 350W and the maximum speed to 20mph would make e-bikes more viable for longer commute journey's than they are presently which I agree with. Many cyclists regularly pedal that fast or even faster anyway on normal non-electric bikes and road accidents from cycling are very low compared to motorist accidents.

Although there has already been a public consultation over these issues, I just wanted to share my thoughts. I hope when these changes come up in parliament for discussion or voting on next year, you might consider them more closely.

On a side issue, it would be good if the government considered reducing or eliminating the import duty on electric bikes and reducing VAT, as the way it is at present, the tax accounts for around a third of the retail cost and is excessive making e-bikes still very expensive and unaffordable for many people. If we are to become a low-carbon cleaner economy, we need cheaper electric bikes so everyone can afford to own one. This would also be a great boost to the industry and our economy, creating many more jobs.

I know a lot of people think pedal assist only is the way to go and how bikes should be made and used..but I think people should have the option and can decide themselves for their own needs.

 

[timidtom]

Excellent idea, though I think my M.P. has difficulty understanding what a bicycle is in the first place!
As wobbly elders of the tribe the throttle is vital to our moving off smoothly from a standstill - I point I'll make when I forward the letter.
Thanks for taking the trouble in setting out the case so clearly.
Best wishes.

 

[tillson]

Excellent idea, though I think my M.P. has difficulty understanding what a bicycle is in the first place.
Best wishes.

Your lucky. My MP has difficulty understanding what the English language is.

 

[flecc]

Much depends on what form the change takes. In fact we have already adopted the EU law, since it was passed by parliament on 10th November 2003, it's effect being to bring in all the EU regulation to pedelec only.

The only reason that we still have throttles is the the civil service messed up and neglected to implement the other part of that EU EC24 mandatory order. That was the order to cancel all existing national legislation on e-bikes within six months from 9th May 2003, this being the date the EC24 order went to all member states. All other member states complied correctly.

Left with both conflicting laws in place, the courts are inclined to follow the purely British 1983 law rather than the later 2003 one which is UK law, wrong but that's the way things are. Since the forthcoming change is in the nature of a clean-up of what already exists, it may take the form of a nod-through amongst the many that get read out rapidly in parliament with no on-the-floor examination.
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[Dynamic Position]

I've seen others on the forum saying they are lobbying their MP's over changes due to put through parliament shortly effecting our electric bikes.

So I decided to do the same and have just penned a letter to my MP which I've copied below... did I miss anything?

Perhaps you could differentiate between current UK e-bike legislation where the bike weight is restricted to 40Kg and new e-bikes which now weighing less than 25Kg? These lighter e-bikes should be just as safe at 24mph especially as the braking technology is much better than that when UK e-bike legislation was last implemented.
Pehaps you should include some parameters for your MP to submit e.g.
weight <25Kg (including battery), 300Watt motor, max assisted speed 24 mph, hard wired lights and speedometer?

 

[morphix]

Perhaps you could differentiate between current UK e-bike legislation where the bike weight is restricted to 40Kg and new e-bikes which now weighing less than 25Kg? These lighter e-bikes should be just as safe at 24mph especially as the braking technology is much better than that when UK e-bike legislation was last implemented.
Pehaps you should include some parameters for your MP to submit e.g.
weight <25Kg (including battery), 300Watt motor, max assisted speed 24 mph, hard wired lights and speedometer?

Good idea.

 

[morphix]

Much depends on what form the change takes. In fact we have already adopted the EU law, since it was passed by parliament on 10th November 2003, it's effect being to bring in all the EU regulation to pedelec only.

The only reason that we still have throttles is the the civil service messed up and neglected to implement the other part of that EU EC24 mandatory order. That was the order to cancel all existing national legislation on e-bikes within six months from 9th May 2003, this being the date the EC24 order went to all member states. All other member states complied correctly.

Left with both conflicting laws in place, the courts are inclined to follow the purely British 1983 law rather than the later 2003 one which is UK law, wrong but that's the way things are. Since the forthcoming change is in the nature of a clean-up of what already exists, it may take the form of a nod-through amongst the many that get read out rapidly in parliament with no on-the-floor examination.
.

Why did they bother to hold a recent public consultation then I wonder if it's already been decided? Perhaps they were just going through the usual motion of saying they consulted the public before the EU law comes into full effect? If memory serves, it reads on the consultation results page as though the government was still considering three different approaches and had not yet decided, but indicated the EU approach was the most favoured one. They also indicated part of their concerns about changes to the status quo was more to do with the cost to the tax-payer and the industry, rather than the end users and road safety. They concluded it wouldn't cost the government anything and it wouldn't harm the manufacturers or industry to bring in the changes to bikes.

 

[flecc]

I got the impression they were going through the motions to a fair extent, the one promising indication that there's likely to be a fresh overall drafting which gives the opportunity for change.

However, EU policy has been for harmonisation of law and from the beginning transport has been the first priority in this program, since it crosses boundaries. Laws therefore need to be harmonised to allow free inter-country travel.

Europe does allow variations into separate classes, for example the German high speed/higher power e-bike classes, but they are registered and insured and cannot have the complete freedom benefits of the standard pedelec legislation. We can do like the Germans of course with full EU approval, and that's the problem, they can say; "You already have this freedom, throttles, more power, more speed, but that obviously needs to have some control through registration".
.

 

[morphix]

I got the impression they were going through the motions to a fair extent, the one promising indication that there's likely to be a fresh overall drafting which gives the opportunity for change.

However, EU policy has been for harmonisation of law and from the beginning transport has been the first priority in this program, since it crosses boundaries. Laws therefore need to be harmonised to allow free inter-country travel.

Europe does allow variations into separate classes, for example the German high speed/higher power e-bike classes, but they are registered and insured and cannot have the complete freedom benefits of the standard pedelec legislation. We can do like the Germans of course with full EU approval, and that's the problem, they can say; "You already have this freedom, throttles, more power, more speed, but that obviously needs to have some control through registration".
.

I was wondering about registration.. with such a wide variety of bikes on the market and people importing parts and making their own bikes, how do they plan to regulate the market and police the bikes on the road? Will they even bother to try?

One way they could enforce the legal compliance might be to make all manufacturers register their designs for sale within the EU and have a license number stamped on the frame or an approval plate stuck on the bike frame either by the manufacturer or retailer showing compliance? Then the police would presumably just check for that if they stopped anyone. The other way of course would be to get end users to register bikes or even buy a registration license of some sort (another excuse for the government to make ££££).

I would think the registration more of an issue with the moped-style e-bikes that have higher power and faster speeds because they're more likely to be mistaken for mopeds and/or used inappropriately as opposed to conventional pedal bikes.

 

[flecc]

One way they could enforce the legal compliance might be to make all manufacturers register their designs for sale within the EU and have a license number stamped on the frame or an approval plate stuck on the bike frame either by the manufacturer or retailer showing compliance? Then the police would presumably just check for that if they stopped anyone. The other way of course would be to get end users to register bikes or even buy a registration license of some sort (another excuse for the government to make ££££)..

This already happens in a sense. All vehicles have to have type approval and our e-bikes are no exception, it costs manufacturers or importers many thousands of pound to get models approved, Wisper posted only a short while ago on these costs. Under our existing 1983 law, all e-bikes have to have a manufacturer plate on the bike where it can be easily read, specifying the wattage, voltage and the e-bike's weight. Of course these are as rare as hen's teeth, but if they existed, the police could inspect those. I believe no-one thinks it important enough to bother about.

As for taxation, the income isn't of any interest to government. On ic mopeds it's only £15 annually and free for electrics, so our e-bikes would not attract interest from a revenue point of view, especially since there are so few of them nationally. Taxing them would cost more than the income.
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[indalo]

All this seems to me to be just another bit of political nonsense. Spare me the guff about achieving harmonisation with regard to bicycle law as such a thing doesn't even exist for motor vehicles across europe.

There is no harmony with speed limits, road fund licencing, drink-drive limits, driving tests, police powers or any other area of road usage; indeed we don't even have commonality when it comes to which side of the road we drive on! Although I read in today's Times that european governments are close to agreeing co-operation on the prosecution of foreign drivers for motoring offences committed abroad, (a good thing) why we accept that ebikes must be governed to speeds easily achieved by regular bikes (without undue danger) is beyond me.

Indalo

 

[lemmy]

why we accept that ebikes must be governed to speeds easily achieved by regular bikes (without undue danger) is beyond me.Indalo

We do not accept that. You can have an ebike as fast as you like. You just have to pay ved, insurance, wear a helmet and so on.

The best way to think of our present legislation is a concession on a powered vehicle, not a restriction on an unpowered one.

If the legislation were changed and ebikes capable of, say 25 or 30 mph were classified like the 15mph restriction ones were now, imagine the situation on river tow paths, pavements and cycle lanes. Who wants that?

I've just come back from a few days in Holland, Den Bosch. The bicycle is the basic means of transport there and electric bikes are common. It makes for a civilised city when the town centre is entirely bikes and pedestrians. Imagine that the bikes can now be powered to 30mph - all the advantages of walking and cycling are nullified by idiots speeding in and out of pedestrians at potentially lethal speeds.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you going faster than the 15mph on your ebike, you just need to pedal.

 

[indalo]

I understand the point you make Lemmy but what you are suggesting is that bicycle riding in a reckless manner at inappropriate speeds is something exclusive to ebikers which, of course, is not the case.

We all know that lots of regular cyclists frequently ride at speeds of 20mph+ unassisted and many of those pay little regard for others who share their journey space. Strictly governing ebikes does nothing to curb selfish idiots on bikes so I would like to see just a little more latitude in the legislation applicable to our ebikes. I'm not asking for much; just a few mph more legally with assistance would be great.

Although I like Holland, as I do Germany and Denmark, for cycling, neither Holland nor Denmark are good choices for comparison with the UK with regard to cycling style or discipline. The complete lack of very hilly terrain in those countries seems to have engendered a much more leisurely approach to cycling than we have in the UK. Those Sparta ebikes, which the Dutch seem to love, epitomise their style of cycling for me and while those bikes may be fine in their homeland, they're not actually that useful in the UK, according to reports I've read.

Leaving aside what could be described as cultural differences, most people would be up in arms if government sought to limit all motor vehicles to, say 70mph just because lots of drivers exceed speed limits. There is no additional legislation for those 200mph+ supercars than exists for an old 2CV as far as I'm aware.

I don't think asking for maybe 18-21mph legally on ebikes would dramatically change people's riding habits in the UK but it would sure make things a little more pleasant for us on those occasions when we feel the need to hurry along.

Indalo

 

[Patrick]

There is no additional legislation for those 200mph+ supercars than exists for an old 2CV as far as I'm aware.

But neither are there special exemptions for the old 2CV just because it can't go at 200mph+. So just because your electric motorbike is only capable of 17 mph under motor power why should you avoid the usual motor bike regulations.

If the law was logical then all ebikes would be regulated as motor vehicles, given that they are vehicles that are propelled by a motor. Fortunately there’s a fudge in the law that says that as long as your ebike's performance isn't significantly different from that of a pedal cycle it will turn a blind eye to the fact that it’s got a motor.

There’s nothing outlawing ebikes that are significantly faster, safer nicer to ride etc than pedal cycles, it just seems that way because if you want to ride such a bike legally you’ve got to stop portending that it’s a just pedal cycle and not a type of motorbike.

Patrick

 

[jbond]

The one thing I would like the UK to disregard in the EU regulations is the no throttle-Pedelec only regs. And this is from a safety angle. I think it's considerably easier to modulate your speed in dense traffic with a throttle than the full power or nothing pedelec control.

As a complete aside, I'd like to see even easier SV testing for low powered electric mopeds. It should be relatively straight forwards (or perhaps more straight forwards) to get a <50mph prototype vehicle tested and licensed. And insured. There's potential for all kinds of radical fully enclosed recumbents, velomobiles, enduro bikes and such like that are quite a pain at the moment to make road legal. I don't want this to be a complete unregulated free for all, but I do want it to be easier.

 

[Patrick]

The one thing I would like the UK to disregard in the EU regulations is the no throttle-Pedelec only regs. And this is from a safety angle. I think it's considerably easier to modulate your speed in dense traffic with a throttle than the full power or nothing pedelec control.

The European regulations do allow you to use a throttle to regulate your speed as long as the motor cuts out completely if you're not pedaling.