Another Battery tale of woe

[LeonardYoung]

I have an ebay-purchased folder. The bike itself is brilliant for the modest price and is now three years old. I ordered a new battery from an Amazon supplier and went painstakingly through the specs with the seller before committing. However when the battery (36v 10ah) arrived the polarity markings had been scratched out, and after investigating I found they were wrong way round compared with the old battery, so back it went.

The battery I am after is the slide-on-the-saddle-tube type (you slide it down the tube and the bottom of the battery connects with two large pins sticking up from the controller box). There seem to be two distinct types of these batteries. With the narrow sliding part facing upwards the plus is on the right and minus on the left. The other type (the wrong one for my bike) has two plusses and two minusses etched on the bottom casing and they are the opposite way round.

I then searched for literally days and think I might have found just one battery that might be correct for my folder but I am not sure I can put faith in the supplier.

What I did notice though, is that it is not only low cost folders that suffer from lack of battery spares. Almost every single website I surfed, some of which are "premium" e-bike sellers, had no pages or links to ANY spare batteries at all. Some of these brands are extremely well known.

Just a few websites actually advertised spare batteries but with a couple of notable exceptions the batteries on offer rarely covered more than a quarter of the e-bikes the same supplier was selling.

So it seems reasonable to conclude that the dearth of batteries is affecting all classes of e-bikes. Two suppliers stood out as exceptions: The Electric Transport Shop in Cambridge offers spare batteries for nearly all of their e-bikes. Kudos seemed to offer some spare batteries but unfortunately the chap I spoke to there was curt and extremely abrupt and after a very unhelpful conversation I gave up.

I would be interested in two things: to hear of anyone else's experience trying to track down a spare battery, and whether anyone knows of a reliable supplier of the battery type I am looking for.

I wonder too how many on this forum have ended up so frustrated at trying to find a battery they simply give up and end up buying a whole new e-bike as the only guarantee of actually finding a battery at all!

 

[RobF]

Woosh advertise spare batteries and there's something on the website about fitting third party bikes.

Give Hatti a ring, she has a reputation for being helpful.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's a pity that you didn't mention this before you sent the battery back. It's a lot easier and quicker to change the terminals over than it is to put the battery back in its box and take it to the post office.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

We sell spare batteries for all our brands. We do not normally keep many in stock so that when a customer orders a battery it is not one which has been sitting around for a long time. However all of our brands keep batteries in stock (except Bosch powered bikes which we order directly ourselves) so it does not take long to get a new battery.

 

[LeonardYoung]

It's a pity that you didn't mention this before you sent the battery back. It's a lot easier and quicker to change the terminals over than it is to put the battery back in its box and take it to the post office.

Sorry I didn't mention this, but I saw several posts on various websites saying variously that reverse polarity either ruined the controller or resulted in the hub motor going backwards. But there is more to it: Because the polarity was reversed the "fit" of the pins into the battery was also reversed, resulting in a misaligned fit that would have to be forced.

The point I feel I was reasonably making is that it really is not easy to find a battery no matter what make or price point. I understand the info that not every supplier can stock every possible battery, but they could at least have a website section to reassure customers that they can be obtained BEFORE committing a customer to an e-bike purchase. Very few e-bike suppliers even have a webpage mentioning spare batteries.

 

[benjy_a]

I needed a replacement battery for an unbranded Chinese cobbled together ebike. Bob from Juicybike painstakingly went through all the dimensions with me and included extra fitting bits with the new battery to ensure a correct match.

Pretty much all the contact plates both on the battery and on the bike are removeable and changeable. It's not that hard to do.

B.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Sorry I didn't mention this, but I saw several posts on various websites saying variously that reverse polarity either ruined the controller or resulted in the hub motor going backwards. But there is more to it: Because the polarity was reversed the "fit" of the pins into the battery was also reversed, resulting in a misaligned fit that would have to be forced.

I don't know what web-sites you've been reading, but they don't seem to be very well informed. It's impossible to make the motor go backwards by reversing the battery. You mustn't connect a battery with reverse polarity. It'll blow the capacitors in your controller, so you always have to check any new one first before connecting. Once you've confirmed that it's reverses, you can either swap the wires on your bike or in the battery, both of which are very easy to do and don't require any soldering - just screws. You don't have to reverse the connectors, so there isn't any problem with the fit. If what you're saying was that the connector block was reversed, you can turn the block on your bike to match it.

This battery comes with a base plate and connector block, so it's guaranteed to match.
36V10Ah LiFePO4 Alloy 01-Case EBike Battery Pack - BMSBATTERY

 

[LeonardYoung]

I don't know what web-sites you've been reading, but they don't seem to be very well informed. It's impossible to make the motor go backwards by reversing the battery. You mustn't connect a battery with reverse polarity. It'll blow the capacitors in your controller, so you always have to check any new one first before connecting. Once you've confirmed that it's reverses, you can either swap the wires on your bike or in the battery, both of which are very easy to do and don't require any soldering - just screws. You don't have to reverse the connectors, so there isn't any problem with the fit. If what you're saying was that the connector block was reversed, you can turn the block on your bike to match it.

This battery comes with a base plate and connector block, so it's guaranteed to match.
36V10Ah LiFePO4 Alloy 01-Case EBike Battery Pack - BMSBATTERY

Thanks for that US link d8veh. I see the connector pins and block are indeed included, so I assume with this kind of battery I unscrew the bike's controller top panel, disconnect the pins then replace them with the pins included with the new battery, taking care to put them the right way round? But I note from blowing up the picture that there are no + or - etchings on the battery. How does one tell which way round they are?

 

[Alan Quay]

You will need multi meter to check which way around they are. About £6 from screwfix/ebay/B&Q.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Never go by marking or colours. Always use a meter to check polarity. you don't get a second chance if you connect wrongly. BMSBattery is in China. They're pretty reliable these days. Many of us use them regularly. You don't get any warranty, and expect to pay £15 to£20 duty.

Just in case it's relevant, you could fit a 15aH battery if you need a bit more range. The only difference is the length, so it's an option if you have a bit of space between the top of the battery and the seat.

You get a new charger too, which is handy, but if you want to use your old charge, don't forget to check the polarity of the charging socket. It'll probably be correct, but it's always better to check.

 

[Alan Quay]

http://www.toolstation.com/m/part.html?p=11867

I keep one of these on my bike. It's only cheap, but it's small and light, and saves me lugging a Fluke about.

I have seen ones that look the same on eBay for even less than the toolstation price.

 

[LeonardYoung]

I'm pleased to say problem solved at last. I went to e-bikes direct in deepest Kent-Sussex borders, but they don't sell spare batteries! (one of the biggest e-bike suppliers in the UK). But they did have a couple of very helpful people there and kindly filched a battery from a bike they had in stock. They confirmed polarity was wrong way round so rather than faff about they used the bottom end of my old battery as a donor, took the bottom plate and pins off it, re-soldered the wires the other way round on the new battery so now I have a brand new battery using my old battery connectors to ensure a fit.

£250 including the 30 minutes it took to do the switch. So money well spent and now I have a three year old e-folder that will last another three years before the whole battery search starts again.

Conclusion strengthened from my earlier posts which stated that batteries, no matter which make you have, are often hard to come by, whether it is a "cheap" chinese ebay or something more expensive. What we need in the UK is someone enterprising enough to open a comprehensive battery replacement business. It can't be that hard to do. There must be hundreds of battery-less ebikes gathering the dust due to lack of spares. Of course now there'll be tons of posts saying "I had no problem"!

My chinese no-name folder is as solid and reliable as it was the day I bought it for less than half the current price of most folders. The prejudice against them in some quarters is often solely on account of the very lack of battery replacements or spares, but that doesn't mean the bike itself is sub-standard.

I can't tell you how much of a pleasure it is again to ride out at full speed and arrive home with three shiny lights still showing a full charge.

Many thanks again to those here who gave good advice.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Leonard,

Cyclezee, and I would assume the majority of electric bike suppliers, do stock spare batteries.

eZee bikes have been in the UK since 2006 and because eZee have retained the same design of case and holder, the latest eZee battery will still fit the oldest eZee bike.

 

[Biker44]

£250 including the 30 minutes it took to do the switch. So money well spent and now I have a three year old e-folder that will last another three years before the whole battery search starts again.

I have something very similar to yourself, a no-name Chinese folder ... may I ask how much use you got out of the original battery?

Were you using it every day, how many miles?

How long was it before you realised the battery was getting tired - did you get, say, 2 good years and the third year not so good, practically useless by the end?

I took the precaution of having my first folder squashed flat under a car - I claimed full value off the insurance but retrieved the battery (which is now 2 years old). I went straight out and purchased another of the same model so have a newer battery as well.

I'm trying to entirely wear out and use up the first battery on shorter journeys, saving the newer battery for more occasional longer trips.

 

[Scimitar]

I'm trying to entirely wear out and use up the first battery on shorter journeys, saving the newer battery for more occasional longer trips.

Yes, that'll work. It's time that does for lithium cells more than anything else, so the clock's ticking for the old one - and the new one, too.

 

[LeonardYoung]

Hi Biker44,

I think in my case I was sloppy about keeping the first battery conditioned. In the first year I rode the bike very regularly. Due to the bad weather and winters of the last two years I must admit I didn't ride anything like so much but also failed to occasionally charge the battery and I think because of this it did not last anything like as long as it should. It was specified to last 500 cycles but I reckon because of my neglect it achieved less than that...maybe 300-350 cycles.

Under tests it was showing a couple of cells fully charged but the rest were completely dead. So it would barely get me 3 miles.

The new battery is slightly longer and while the same voltage and amp hours it is specified to last 1000 cycles and I'm determined this time to keep it conditioned.

Your accident sounds horrible. I do hope you weren't actually on the bike when it got run over!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hi Biker44,

I think in my case I was sloppy about keeping the first battery conditioned. In the first year I rode the bike very regularly. Due to the bad weather and winters of the last two years I must admit I didn't ride anything like so much but also failed to occasionally charge the battery and I think because of this it did not last anything like as long as it should. It was specified to last 500 cycles but I reckon because of my neglect it achieved less than that...maybe 300-350 cycles.

Under tests it was showing a couple of cells fully charged but the rest were completely dead. So it would barely get me 3 miles.

The new battery is slightly longer and while the same voltage and amp hours it is specified to last 1000 cycles and I'm determined this time to keep it conditioned.

Your accident sounds horrible. I do hope you weren't actually on the bike when it got run over!

Don't blame yourself. It was probably just poor quality cells that were deteriorating from the beginning. Even though you can't see it, battery technology has moved forward a lot in the last couple of years, and so have the manufacturing quality controls, so we can now expect longer life from our batteries.

 

[Blew it]

Yes, that'll work. It's time that does for lithium cells more than anything else, so the clock's ticking for the old one - and the new one, too.

Possibly, but my own experiences spanning six years of E-biking is that not all chemistries age in the same way, a classic example being a five-year-old V1 Ping LiFePO4. That old battery has only ever been used as an occasional range extender. It has never been subjected to a daily charge/discharge cycle. It sits in a cupboard for three or four months at a time, but only takes twenty minutes of charge/ balancing to bring it back up to full original capacity and, will still happily feed a 15 amp controller for twenty-five miles. The chances are, had that battery been used on a five-days-a-week commute, it may have aged differently...or perhaps not!

The more general Lithium batteries found on entry-level machines tend to hold capacity well for the first two years, rapidly deteriorating after that. That's not to say they are finished, they get used on the old Synergie Mistral "hack" bike which rarely exceeds four mile round trips. Fortunately, those type of batteries are not overly expensive to replace.

As reported in another thread, Panasonic batteries supplied with Kalkhoffs et al are proving to be very long lived, irrespective of useage patterns, likewise the BMZ 18ah. In the case of the latter, which has a claimed 1100 charge cycles life-span, I am hoping will have the resistance to calendar aging to match. As for my own two-year-old BMZ battery, it's a case of "so far, so good".

Being a retiree, with several machines to choose from, it is highly unlikely I will ever run out of "charge cycles" so resistance to calendar aging is of particular interest to me, as I suspect it will be for other leisure riders.

 

[hoppy]

Agree with Blew-it. Deterioration with age is crucial. Notice Tesla Model S car battery has an 8 year warranty and Nissan Leaf a guarantee of 70% capacity after 5 years.

 

[LeonardYoung]

Interesting to learn that age in years is sometimes more important than topping up the charging. I note that the glowing reviews on good batteries that last a long time are offset by the relative price, so there appears to be a levelling out of cheaper batteries that last two or three years against batteries that last twice as long but are twice the price. The only remaining difference might therefore be the availability of a needed replacement.