Batteries too expensive!!

[Rohloffboy]

Yep, RobF, you are probably spot on, as Ebike's are quite niche, and in the great scheme of things, so is cycling in general.

Cars though are a different entity altogether, but I can't help thinking that with Tesla planning to go mainstream next year, with a fully electric car that cost's half as much as there current model "S", yet still has all the quality features including range etc.

There are only a small number of consumers who are willing to pay £3k+ for an Ebike, once you have captured those sales from consumers, as a manufacturer you need to be expanding the market, with an equally as good product, but at half the price if you want to remain in the game.

Then we could soon be heading the same way with Ebikes as what Tesla has done with it's cars, wishful thinking maybe, but who knows.

 

[marwigan]

I see my old friends [not literally] at HollandBikeShop sell the Bosch battery to the extent I bit the bullet with the prospect of the pound nosediving and ordered a 400 Powerpack spare for my Raleigh Motus [having very carefulll checked the serial nos], and indeed not being able to easily source one locally
I cannot claim to be supremely confident what the procedure will be if it fails in warranty period [2 yrs?]. And wish they'd been more packing around the very stiff but single layered cardboard packing box. [I have had poorer when getting a battery from a UK supplier before].
Still it arrived well known UK courier, the 'delivery partner' to originator Netherlands Post; quickly and inexpensively with very easy tracking, total 4-5 days, less than £10. How do they do it?
Less than €500, but a lousy exchange rate when i can find out what it was.

ran it to zero from initial 3 lights and now recharged plan to run to near zero again - but too cold today to run out far. so far so good.

Bless a common customs area,.....too soon?

 

[Danidl]

Yep, RobF, you are probably spot on, as Ebike's are quite niche, and in the great scheme of things, so is cycling in general.

Cars though are a different entity altogether, but I can't help thinking that with Tesla planning to go mainstream next year, with a fully electric car that cost's half as much as there current model "S", yet still has all the quality features including range etc.

There are only a small number of consumers who are willing to pay £3k+ for an Ebike, once you have captured those sales from consumers, as a manufacturer you need to be expanding the market, with an equally as good product, but at half the price if you want to remain in the game.

Then we could soon be heading the same way with Ebikes as what Tesla has done with it's cars, wishful thinking maybe, but who knows.

But ebikes are currently available from about 500 £ in supermarkets, a wide range of reasonable ones at 1000, excellent durable ones from 1500 and varying degrees of luxury from 2k upwards. ... The future has arrived.
As against cycling not being mainstream, look at major cities in Asia. I was gobsmacked by the cycle traffic in Saigon.

 

[RobF]

Anyone new to ebiking can easily over estimate the pace of change, which experience tells me is relatively glacial.

Take Bosch as an example, is the latest crank motor very different from the original 2010 one?

I would say not - without looking, it would be hard to tell which you were riding.

Lithium batteries were a bit of a leap forward over lead acid, but I can't see any significant improvements in the next few years.

Incremental is the word, as each year or two passes, batteries get a tiny bit lighter and/or have a tiny bit more capacity.

Although as I said earlier, no one would be more pleased than me if I am proved wrong about that.

 

[UrbanPuma]

Thanks for all your responses guys, much appreciated. I have a Powacycle Puma ebike, battery is a Lithium Polymer 26v 13ah, approximately 2.1kg and £350 (new). I guess when I break price down over 5 years it works out £70 per year, so pretty good. However, I'd rather pay less lol as initial cost always seems high to me.

I'm not sure about eBay. Also I wish it could give me around 40-50 miles per charge. Is it possible to acquire this battery at a cheaper price without safety risks?

Thanks,

Urbanpuma

 

[Croxden]

Take Bosch as an example, is the latest crank motor very different from the original 2010 one?

.

Aren't they derived from a truck windscreen wiper motor or somesuch?

 

[Danidl]

Aren't they derived from a truck windscreen wiper motor or somesuch?

Hi
Somewhere I picked up info that it was derived from the electric power steering gear on Audi . Presumably they modified the windings for 36v operation. Again why would that not also have been derived from other motors used for other functions

 

[RobF]

Aren't they derived from a truck windscreen wiper motor or somesuch?

That was certainly the word that got about for the Classic, although I don't know if it was ever officially confirmed.

Hi
Somewhere I picked up info that it was derived from the electric power steering gear on Audi . Presumably they modified the windings for 36v operation. Again why would that not also have been derived from other motors used for other functions

Maybe that applies to the Gen 2.

Either way, I reckon the riding experience is similar, although I've not done many miles on a Gen 2 bike.

 

[Rohloffboy]

That's an interesting post marwigan, so you can simply buy a spare Bosch battery, and it's plug and play.

I was starting to think, that due to the internal electronics of the Bosch battery, that it may have needed to be programmed using some dealer type software, to get it working with the motor control panel etc.

But this seems not to be the case, which is good news,

What kind of saving did you get compared to sourcing the battery in the UK, I am guessing you paid around £400 compared to say £600 at UK prices, if that's the case, UK consumers are yet again having there trousers pulled down.

 

[Danidl]

That's an interesting post marwigan, so you can simply buy a spare Bosch battery, and it's plug and play.

I was starting to think, that due to the internal electronics of the Bosch battery, that it may have needed to be programmed using some dealer type software, to get it working with the motor control panel etc.

But this seems not to be the case, which is good news,

What kind of saving did you get compared to sourcing the battery in the UK, I am guessing you paid around £400 compared to say £600 at UK prices, if that's the case, UK consumers are yet again having there trousers pulled down.

Hi , there is no voltage present on the output pins of the Bosch battery when it is removed from the bike or the charger. A safety measure. There is a third pin and I assume that that is used to initiate power when plugged into the charger or bike. While it would be possible to require a transfer of serial number over a serial link, and so key batteries to bikes, this would be counterproductive in say a fleet operation ... Bike hire or maybe post office delivery.
The Bosch is all about making the operation as simple as possible. I had picked up on this forum previously that the they were keyed together, but I believe this to be an urban myth.

 

[RobF]

Bosch batteries are interchangeable.

Many of us have spares and/or a second Bosch bike.

I have accumulated four Bosch Classic batteries over the years, including the pattern one in the link, and all work with both my bikes.

I am not aware of anyone who makes a current shape pattern battery.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-Bike-Ersatzakku-Power-Pack-13-Ah-468-Wh-36V-fur-Bosch-Classic-Unterrohr-/262079812829?hash=item3d052c94dd

 

[Danidl]

Bosch batteries are interchangeable.

Many of us have spares and/or a second Bosch bike.

I have accumulated four Bosch Classic batteries over the years, including the pattern one in the link, and all work with both my bikes.

I am not aware of anyone who makes a current shape pattern battery.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-Bike-Ersatzakku-Power-Pack-13-Ah-468-Wh-36V-fur-Bosch-Classic-Unterrohr-/262079812829?hash=item3d052c94dd

Hi my comments must be restricted to the current pattern "Bosch active " which has a three pin oval connection. I note that your model is rectangular and has more connection.

 

[IR772]

Hi , there is no voltage present on the output pins of the Bosch battery when it is removed from the bike or the charger. A safety measure. There is a third pin and I assume that that is used to initiate power when plugged into the charger or bike. While it would be possible to require a transfer of serial number over a serial link, and so key batteries to bikes, this would be counterproductive in say a fleet operation ... Bike hire or maybe post office delivery.
The Bosch is all about making the operation as simple as possible. I had picked up on this forum previously that the they were keyed together, but I believe this to be an urban myth.

If you read up on how FETS/MOSFETS are used in commercial battery protection circuits you will then understand why there is no detectable voltage on your multimeter.

Pin pattern does not matter.

 

[flecc]

Aren't they derived from a truck windscreen wiper motor or somesuch?

The original English made TGA Electrobike from the 1980s on used a truck wiper motor in a crank drive position. It was only finally discontinued in about 2011, so about the longest lived e-bike model ever. TGA still exist, they've always been mobility vehicle makers but don't support the e-bike any more:

 

[Rohloffboy]

Well my Son (31) will be in work tomorrow, he is a Bike Tech, and his firm is selling a good number of KTM and Haibikes using the Bosch CD drive.

So I have asked him to find out what the Trade (Staff Price) is for the Bosch 500w 13.4ah 36v battery.

This could be interesting as the current street price, seems to be a ridiculous £700.

 

[soundwave]

 

[RobF]

[QUOTE="Rohloffboy, post: 343223, member: 14634"

This could be interesting as the current street price, seems to be a ridiculous £700.[/QUOTE]

What price top quality?

I mean, take the Rohloff gear hub - it's best part of a grand.

Looks a bit dear when you can get a Shimano Nexus for 150 quid.

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Shimano-SG-C6000-Nexus-8-Speed-Hub-36h_92625.htm?sku=323428&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=CJ_83OG529ACFYG37Qod3l4MXg#

 

[Rohloffboy]

Will let you know if I can beat that £480 price tag, soundwave, even though a lot better than £700 that is still a ridiculous price for a battery.

 

[soundwave]

https://www.adrenalinatv.co.uk/shop/components/xduro-performance-emtb-ebike-pedelec/haibike-bosch-xduro-oem-battery-frame-mounted-500wh/

look at that then lol get the motor cost as well if you can

 

[flecc]

I have asked him to find out what the Trade (Staff Price) is for the Bosch 500w 13.4ah 36v battery.

This could be interesting as the current street price, seems to be a ridiculous £700.

There's always someone worse. How about the BionX circa 10 Ah 36 volt batteries, last price I saw was £1050.
.