Battery life

[guerney]

Revolutionary sodium battery has four times the capacity of lithium-ion batteries

Revolutionary sodium battery has four times the capacity of lithium-ion batteries

Discover an advanced sodium battery that boasts an energy capacity four times greater than its lithium-ion battery counterparts.

www.innovationnewsnetwork.com

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.202206828?utm_source=

Mass sodium-ion battery production rolls off GWh-class factory as it paves the way for affordable cells without lithium
"160 Wh/kg energy density, and has also hinted that its next generation Na-ion cells will surpass the 200 Wh/kg threshold. Considering that Tesla's much touted affordable 4680 battery that now goes in the Model Y returned just 244 Wh/kg energy density in recent tests, the sodium-ion cells are not to be underestimated"

Vast Solar Signs Letter of Intent to Purchase 13,500 Sodium-Ion Batteries from Natron Energy in 2023

Vast Solar Signs Letter of Intent to Purchase 13,500 Sodium-Ion Batteries from Natron Energy in 2023

Vast Solar Signs Letter of Intent to Purchase 13,500 Sodium-Ion Batteries from Natron Energy in 2023

www.businesswire.com

United Airlines is investing in sodium-ion battery development

United Airlines is investing in sodium-ion battery development - electrive.com

The US airline United Airlines has made a strategic investment in Natron Energy. However, United is not interested in electrifying its aircraft, instead focusing on the ground vehicles that travel for the airline. Natron Energy is a US developer of sodium-ion batteries. United Airlines' investmen

www.electrive.com

 

[guerney]

We'll be hunted down. They'll catch the slow ones first - we've got to stay ahead of @soundwave

Toxic or magic? Batteries industry freaks out over EU proposal to classify lithium as a toxin

Such a label risks hampering the bloc’s climate ambitions, the industry argues.

Toxic or magic? Batteries industry freaks out over EU proposal to classify lithium as a toxin

Such a label risks hampering the bloc’s climate ambitions, the industry argues.

www.politico.eu

 

[WheezyRider]

Well this is what lithium battery hysteria is leading to:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601066983457320960

 

[Nealh]

Personal people transportation will likely still be available though thru micro cars or the quadricycle route , cost wise though they will be like the AMI 7 -10k each and limited in size and range . Just enough for two people and local transport.

The expenesive cars may be unsustainable for the masses but it hasn't so far it seems put off quite a few from using them, whether owned or leased .

 

[guerney]

Personal people transportation will likely still be available though thru micro cars or the quadricycle route , cost wise though they will be like the AMI 7 -10k each and limited in size and range . Just enough for two people and local transport.

It'll be local alright - 5,000 miles per year = 13.7 miles a day, then there's an excess mileage charge:

Citroën Ami | Citroën Electric Car | Citroën UK

Discover the smallest Citroën car: Citroën Ami. 100% Electric, designed for urban living. Experience the future of mobility with a compact Citroën electric car.

www.citroen.co.uk

Excess Mileage Charge	4.8 pence per mile
Annual Mileage	5,000

5,000 miles is rubbish, else I might actually consider buying one.

 

[guerney]

Well this is what lithium battery hysteria is leading to:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1601066983457320960

If insurance cost increases are to blame, it'll be only matter of time before more places in the UK ban ebikes and escooters... which could become a major threat to anyone who uses or trades lithium ion batteries.

 

[Nealh]

Leaseing or pcp 's will have add on charges vs out right ownership.

 

[flecc]

It'll be local alright - 5,000 miles per year = 13.7 miles a day.
5,000 miles is rubbish, else I might actually consider buying one.

Not that bad. It might surprise, but the average annual mileage of ALL British drivers is just 7300, just 20 miles per day.
.

 

[guerney]

Leaseing or pcp 's will have add on charges vs out right ownership.

I expect guarantees and maintenance contacts could be invalidated when some annual mileage is exceded, and if that's only 5,000, that is rubbish and useless to me. Until I'm hauled off to jail for crimes against the environment, I'll stick with the bike.

 

[soundwave]

now make it go that fast for 500 miles on 1 set of tyres

 

[guerney]

now make it go that fast for 500 miles on 1 set of tyres

Aside from easily repairable electic tadpole recumbents powered exclusively by pedals and solar panel roofs, all other vehicles should become illegal immediately! (Sodium-ion batteries optional)

 

[flecc]

The expenesive cars may be unsustainable for the masses but it hasn't so far it seems put off quite a few from using them, whether owned or leased .

The trouble we both have is that they are mostly concentrated in the affluent south.

When I bought my e-car in 2018 I drove an over 500 mile round trip north to check it out. It being decades since I was last up there, I was astonished how clear the ordinary roads still were compared to here in the south.

If that's what the failing Northern Powerhouse does, I reckon we need a Southern Powerhouse!
.

 

[Nealh]

Not that bad. It might surprise, but the average annual mileage of ALL British drivers is just 7300, just 20 miles per day.
.

My personal car use is typically only 500 - 700 miles p.a, as noted on the forum I'm prominantly a cycle user only so either panniers front and rear or oversize panniers on a cargo bike , the CF 100kg load trailer can do most of my needs. It's just bulk that is the issue such as visits to the tip.

My 400 mile round trip to collect my Ute proabbly the longest single journey I have made for over 20 years.

 

[Nealh]

I can mitigate some of the green rubbish by one day having a large green bin for fortnightly collections though a small fee p.a is charged for the service I shall wait until I have no car and no motoring expenses then I will be a little better off.

 

[guerney]

Leaseing or pcp 's will have add on charges vs out right ownership.

It all varies, with clauses. I very much doubt that AMIs are user repairable:

"MY AMI CARE TCS" PDF

 

[soundwave]

 

[guerney]

StoreDot, which makes ultra-fast, Tesla-like 4680 battery cells, develops tech to extend batteries’ first and second life

StoreDot, which makes ultra-fast, Tesla-like 4680 battery cells, develops tech to extend batteries' first and second life

Israeli startup StoreDot today announced that it can now extend the life span of batteries for both vehicles and second-life applications.

electrek.co

 

[guerney]

The ultimate comparative analysis of 4680 battery vs 18650

The ultimate comparative analysis of 4680 battery vs 18650

The 4680 battery vs 18650 comparison is one of the most important today as the new battery faces stiff competition from older types. In this article, we'll compare some significant parameters between 4680 battery vs 18650 to identify which battery provides better performance.

www.tycorun.com

 

[WheezyRider]

Fully agreed, but what is so good about e-cars now is that they will be doing just that. It is clearly the policy of governments and the motor industry now they have woken up. Just look at the facts:

We are not going to get cheap normal e-cars, despite all the previous promises. In fact quite the opposite is happening, they are getting far more expensive and far beyond most wallets.

Why? Here's the answers.

The car industry is fed up with loss making small cars. You probably know that every original Mini ever made was at a loss and the same has long been true of all small cars. The industry has only ever made its profits from the premium up market models. That is why GM withdrew from Europe and why they virtually gave away Vauxhall and Opel brands to PSA (Peugeot-Citroen). Following that Ford announced they were also considering pulling out of Europe.

So now they've all come to their senses they are not repeating the mistake with e-cars so have sharply increased their prices and are eliminating cheaper models. They won't lose anything by doing that, they'll just be working less hard for the same or more profitability. When I bought my Leaf in 2018 the cheapest option was £22,000. They discontinued that and are now ending all Leaf models next year. The replacement is the Ariya model which for a reasonable spec starts around £37,000 with the premium model at £47,000. There's very few e-cars under £35k now and they are disappearing fast.

The mass of the public who have been buying new IC cars for from £8k to well under £20k just won't be able to afford those very high e-car prices, especially as the western world is getting poorer due to climate change measures and political trends.

And governments are willingly assisting by removing the e-car subsidies. No more £5000 grant to buy an e-car. No more £500 grant to buy a home charging point. No more free VED (road tax) from 2025. And the killer now is that electricity is just as dear as ic fuel for running a car.

As unfair and socially undesirable as it might seem, e-cars will be mainly for the minority privileged, so as ic car sales are banned and older ones wear out or suffer enforced scrappage, there will be far fewer cars left on the roads. I'd forecast at least a halving eventually.

In this country cycling won't be the big winner though, it will be public transport as London has already shown.
.

My concerns are that if the plan is to make EVs too expensive for the masses, why is the government continuing to spend many tens of billions on road building schemes and promoting EVs? You get what you build for. Build a system for car ownership and that's what you get. Invest in public transport and active travel infra and that's what you get. In cities like London, public transport is good, but in rural areas it is often as good as non existent. This will set a demand for cheap EVs and although western companies may decide they are going to step away from mass EV production, I can see the Chinese or maybe even the Indians stepping in to fill the gap. There are still a lot of people in the developing world with the aspiration to own a car, fuelling a massive demand. These cheap EVs are likely to then flood the UK market. Once batteries are available at a reasonable price, they will be much cheaper to build than ICE cars, which need more complex systems.

I only hope these Chinese or equivalent EVs are more like the Citroen Ami than a Tesla.

 

[matthewslack]

My concerns are that if the plan is to make EVs too expensive for the masses, why is the government continuing to spend many tens of billions on road building schemes and promoting EVs? You get what you build for. Build a system for car ownership and that's what you get. Invest in public transport and active travel infra and that's what you get. In cities like London, public transport is good, but in rural areas it is often as good as non existent. This will set a demand for cheap EVs and although western companies may decide they are going to step away from mass EV production, I can see the Chinese or maybe even the Indians stepping in to fill the gap. There are still a lot of people in the developing world with the aspiration to own a car, fuelling a massive demand. These cheap EVs are likely to then flood the UK market. Once batteries are available at a reasonable price, they will be much cheaper to build than ICE cars, which need more complex systems.

I only hope these Chinese or equivalent EVs are more like the Citroen Ami than a Tesla.

Tend to agree with your analysis. In the bigger picture, UK Plc is in decline and China is on the way up. UK is not able to produce what most of the world needs at the price the world will pay. And never will again. UK wages by world standards are high, and they need to be because of the housing market piggy bank.

The only way is down, the only question is how fast?