Battery upgrade Cyclamatic folder

[Old Timer]

Before ordering a new Li-ion battery from China(or anywhere else come to that) I decided to set up a SLA (sealed lead acid) battery pack. I chose the top of the range Yuasa/Yucel because if you are going to do a comparison then you had better be working with somethind decent. Two 12V 12Amp(15Amp in real terms), taped them together and luckily had a handlebar bag where the bracket had broken and wasn`t available so at least I got to use it. Purchased a decent SLA battery charger and set about soldering all the contacts on using mainly kettle plug fittings. You`ll notice from the photos that I wired from the controller in two different ways so that I have the choice of moving the battery about between the other folder and the power plus. One lead through the top of the control box and one lead soldered into what was the internal connector from an old alien battery which gave me the fitting to connect directly onto the controller pins. fitted two 15Amp fuses but have since changed them to 20Amp as they were getting warm. fitted a small piece of plywood into the bottom of the bag, fitted a length of 10gauge ali under the rack and just pulled the whole thing together using bolts and wing nuts( no other securing needed)
Did a run of 5 miles and the voltage went from (after being charged and left to lay overnight) 27.58V down to 25.69V. Mixed up and down hills with some flat. Seeing as the only control will be the controller that should cut off at 21V it looks like those batteries should do very nicely and no doubt about them being better than the supplied Li-ion. The two batteries are heavier than the original but after making a grab handle out of two cable ties it really is no mproblem to lift in and out and share it with Annes Power Plus. Her rear bag will take the pack easily with room to spare. I did stick some foam on the base to hold everything clear of the cable ties and the coach bolt heads. I`m not sure if setting three of these up for the 36V bikes would work as well as these at 24V but might be worth a try. Out of interest the top green light went out very quickly(as expected) and never returned but that`s down to the controller thinking that a Li-ion battery was connected.
Images here cyclamatic_folder Photo Gallery by david chilvers at pbase.com

 

[Morag]

Looks great I know nothing about anything you wrote but I'm impressed and be prepared for a good pestering if anything happens to Wilma's battery!!!

 

[Old Timer]

Over a couple of days (to avoid heavy showers) on the original charge ! got around 22 miles out of the SLA batteries. They still hadn`t cut off and were showing 23.5V which if the controller was anywhere near right was still a couple of volts above controller cut off but you could feel the lack of power so I decided to charge them up again.
I`m very impressed seeing as they reached something like double what the original epuipment reached and although slightly heavier than the Li-ion pack lets face it it`s really like having a big Sunday lunch before you go out apart from the fact that we all weigh in at different weights.
It would be quite an easy job for most people to dismantle the original battery pack to gain access to the connection block to save having to dismantle the controller housing to solder inline connection.
I honestly feel that choosing premier SLA batteries was partly why the batteries stood up so well and have to ask myself(apart from extra weight which can easily be distributed around most bikes) why SLA batteries have fallen so far from grace??
At 1/4 the price of even Sports HQ reasonable prices they surely have to be considered when the time comes to replace batteries.
I don`t really need any 36V batteries at present but am tempted to purchase just one more 12V SLA and wire it in temporarily to my 24V pack just out of interest on how it stands up on a proper main road bike rather than a leisure folder?

Any thoughts?

Dave

 

[flecc]

I agree Dave, SLAs still have much to commend them and we do have some members using them on bikes which were originally equipped with Lithium batteries. One I remember is even using three on the fast eZee Torq 1 for it's 36 volts.

Yes, they are heavy, but the price difference is hard to resist.

And of course in China they predominantly use SLAs on both e-bikes and e-mopeds, lithium finding much less favour there.

Other factors for many is that SLAs can be fully recycled with the simplest of facilities in even third world countries, something far from true for lithium, and lead is far more available as a resource than scarce lithium.

 

[Old Timer]

Hiya Flecc

Yeh, thanks for the reply. So, other than weight can you see any other serious reasons where Liths really do justify there high price?

 

[flecc]

Good ones do give greater ranges for a given capacity, lead acid (SLA) not able to give up all their content at our quite high discharge rates due to the Peukert effect. That's not so noticable on a moderate power system, but with some of the high power 36 volt bikes it does hurt SLA performance unless the power is used gently.

That's probably partly why SLA hung on for so long on 24 volt e-bikes like the Currie Izips, but were dropped much earlier on 36 volt bikes, plus the weight of 3 SLAs is so much worse than the 2 for 24 volts.

So for most the convenience of best performance and range outweighs the price on 36 volt bikes.

 

[eddieo]

looks like older tech can still make financial sense....all the best!

 

[bode]

SLA on an eZee Sprint

I have just bought a second-hand eZee Sprint. The previous owner recently replaced the knackered battery with 3x 12v 12Ah SLAs. I was a bit doubtful about that, but I got the bike for a very decent price and it seems to go OK.
I have just charged them up fully but have not yet been for a proper ride. Any ideas what sort of mileage I could expect -- I don't want to get caught out! It sounds from posts above that the performance might be somewhat inferior to a comparable lithium battery?

 

[mike killay]

What is the weight of one of these batteries?
I confess to being a fan of lead/acid because I use them in my electric boat. They are simple, do not need BMS and are relatively cheap. I paid £200 for two 90 amp hour ones. Of course, they are 12 volt, so the two would make 60 amp hours at 36 volt. But each one weighs 19 kilogrammes.

 

[bode]

I haven't weighed them, but would guess around 6-7kg (together). They are actually connected to the old BMS; does that matter? I fear the worst, because I have see the bill and they only cost £52 altogether - about a tenth the price of an eZee battery! How good would they be at that price?

My dilemma if they turn out to be duff will be whether to replace them with better SLAs, or to bite the bullet and buy a £500 eZee. Or, I have the old battery case; what could I fit in that, if anything?

 

[banbury frank]

Hi

Make sure you are using the right charger

36 Volt 1.5A Battery Charger Electric Scooter Bike 36V | eBay

you don't need a BMS just a strait connection o the battery you need some form off protection

we fitted a standard 20 amp MCB from B&Q like you have in your mains fuse box

they where good because unlike a fuse if the tripped you can just reset them on the road side

WYLEX TYPE B NSB20 240V 20A MCB BREAKER | eBay





we used to fit lead acid battery's made by Ritar they are still going after 3 years

Set of 3 RITAR 12V 12Ah (15Ah) Electric Bikes Battery's | eBay

4.25 kilos each

you can get 3 in a standard rack bag and put the MCB in the side pocket and the controller in the other side

Cycling Bike Travel Bicycle Rear Seat Pannier Bag Pouch | eBay

you should get 10 / 15 miles


Hope this helps


Frank

 

[bode]

you need some form off protection

we fitted a standard 20 amp MCB from B&Q like you have in your mains fuse box

they where good because unlike a fuse if the tripped you can just reset them on the road side

WYLEX TYPE B NSB20 240V 20A MCB BREAKER | eBay

That's a good idea; thanks.

 

[Scimitar]

I also fitted an MCB instead of a fuse, but there's one thing to bear in mind - some MCBs won't break DC current cleanly and will arc across the contacts, sometimes welding them shut. There are special DC breakers available, indeed, some mains MCBs are DC rated also. As for the one I use - I don't know
Luckily, each of my Bosch battery packs is individually fused.

 

[NRG]

Engineering Frank,

A domestic MCB is not an appropriate device to protect a DC circuit unless it is specifically designed and rated for DC, the Wylex above appears not to be. As Scimitar indicates arcing is a problem and specialist DC breakers are available but expensive... a simple bladed fuse, suitably rated, is better and cheaper to boot.

http://www.mrsharkey.com/busbarn/electrics/chapt9.htm

Schurter make some suitably rated breakers that are more appropriate for our application if you wish to go down this route but they cost considerably more. Note: these are actually rated 60v DC not the 32v as listed...

SCHURTER|TA35-CBTWF200C0|CIRCUIT BREAKER, 2P, 20A | CPC

 

[Scimitar]

I think I'll replace mine with this...
TE CONNECTIVITY / POTTER & BRUMFIELD|W54-XB1A4A10-30|CIRCUIT BREAKER, 30A | CPC

Just had a look at Hager; FAQ Hager B&R from which it seems the one I use is ok up to 60V DC, so I don't have to replace it. For anyone with the slightest bit of interest, mine is on page 8 of this cat - a 32A MV132 type www.arianbc.net/Hager/MCCB.pdf

 

[banbury frank]

Hi

Fact

We have 300 lead acid bikes and kits out there after 3 years no problem

using MCB and on the more powerfull kits we use 32 Amp or the throw out

Frank