Bear with me, still new here

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,230
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Sevenoaks Kent
Right, I've had the bike a few weeks and done a few very pleasant rides. I absolutely love it (Wisper 905 Classic, pedelec with throttle, hub motor) and wish I had got one years ago. But one thing is puzzling me, and I'm hoping some wise soul will be able to explain.

The bike has five power levels on the handlebar control (OK, six including 'none'). I'm trying to use as little power as possible, both to eke out the battery and to get some exercise. I thought at the beginning that the different power levels would provide a lower or higher level of assistance up to the maximum speed, but now I think that is wrong. If I set off on setting 2, for example, the bike helps me quite vigorously up to about 8 mph and then seems to stop assisting. If I put the power setting up to 4, it helps me up to about 10 mph and then stops. 5 gets me to 12 mph and 6 all the way to 15 mph. But the level of assistance seems to be the same (i.e. quite a lot) at all settings, it just cuts out at a lower speed. If I am riding up a decent hill on setting 3, for example, I have to let the speed drop right down until the assistance cuts in. I think I expected it to assist more at whatever speed I choose to ride at, just more or less assistance depending on the setting.

I hope I have explained that OK. It's not a problem: I love the bike and can't wait to get some time off work to ride it again. But if I understood more about how the assistance levels work, I'm sure I would be able to get more out of it.
Thanks for the Kind remarks Black Dog, the 905Classic is a very special bike. The power is slightly stronger on each setting. We leave the maximum power on for more and more time on each setting to help you get to higher speeds at max power.

If you need any further advice you are very welcome to contact me at dmiall@me.com

All the best

David
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
This was indeed the case Dave, however a lot of bike out of China now work on torque sensors.

The new Wisper Torque and Kombi Bikes use a clever algorithm that combines a very sensitive torque sensor and a speed sensor. This enables us to increase the power and sensitivity of the TS without experiencing the surge, surge, surge effect of a standard TS. In tests I have been able to set off on a 15% gradient, in top gear, such is the power and sensitivity this new system delivers. The software takes a torque reading 12 times per revolution of the pedals and combines that with information from the speed sensor ensuring a powerful yet smooth ride.

All the best

David
It's nice to know that Wisper are doing something, but I must say that I haven't seen many Chinese bikes with torque sensors. Torque sensors have the potential for faster response times, which to me is their only advantage. It's what you do with the sensor that makes the difference. The algorithms are in the control, not the sensor. It sounds like you're doing something sensible. I can't understand this obsession with trying to make an electric bike like a normal bike so that you get no power when your legs are tired. I think that a lot of the designers are cyclists, not people like us. There must always be some way to get maximum power without stressing yourself to maximum. By all means have a torque multiplication system but then you need another control that can turn up the power when you're tired.
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,230
2,197
68
Sevenoaks Kent
Hi Dave, we have been working on this project for the last 12 months. Hence my inactivity here.

I completely agree, we feel settings should be such that as a rider becomes more tired they can pump up the assistance levels. The Wisper TS Hybrid Sensor system splices information from the Torque and Speed sensor giving a natural ride but enables the rider to chose how much effort they want to exert. You are correct, all the people involved in the project are electric bike specialists, not vanilla cyclist experts.

All the best

David
 

Jimod

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 9, 2010
1,065
634
Polmont
I can't understand this obsession with trying to make an electric bike like a normal bike so that you get no power when your legs are tired. I think that a lot of the designers are cyclists, not people like us. There must always be some way to get maximum power without stressing yourself to maximum. By all means have a torque multiplication system but then you need another control that can turn up the power when you're tired.
I agree completely. That's why I don't want a torque sensor. There's nothing to beat getting to the top of a long hill then be able to relax with little work whilst the bike does it's own thing.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I agree completely. That's why I don't want a torque sensor. There's nothing to beat getting to the top of a long hill then be able to relax with little work whilst the bike does it's own thing.
Of course you need to be able to turn the power down when you want as well for the times that you feel energetic.
 

Jimod

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 9, 2010
1,065
634
Polmont
Of course you need to be able to turn the power down when you want as well for the times that you feel energetic.
Aye and some days I seldom see power level 5 except on the steep hills. Other days I only ever see power level 5.
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
Having had both types in the last couple of months I think the experience is very different between the two. I like to feel as if I have bionic legs, and to seem to be a more powerful cyclist than I was years ago when I was a much younger and stronger rider. That can only really come with a TS bike where your input is multiplied, and it's something which serious cyclists or people who were serious cyclists appreciate I think.

The speed sensor bikes have their pleasures too. You can put extra effort in, and even if you don't feel it directly as you do with a TS, you do feel as if you are flying with the extra power. Or you can just let the bike do all the work. But I found it much harder to know what was me and what was the bike than with a TS.

If I just wanted transport, or even to just ride around for fun without wanting to worry too much about improving my fitness, and being able to monitor how it was improving, I'd have a speed sensor bike. Probably one of each type might be best.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I can't understand this obsession with trying to make an electric bike like a normal bike so that you get no power when your legs are tired. I think that a lot of the designers are cyclists, not people like us.
It's true that Panasonic were using torque sensing very early on e-bikes, and they actually started life as a bicycle manufacturer long before getting into electronics. They still are one of Japan's largest bicycle manufacturers. The founder of the company, Konosuke Matsushita grew up with a family who owned a bicycle shop and always had a love of bicycles and cycling, so I daresay that influence is still strong, given the Japanese love of tradition.

I think legislatures have a strong influence too, with their common insistence that an e-bike should be as close to a normal bicycle as possible, hence pedelec control and the ban on throttle control in some areas. Of course pedelec control of power in crank units usually leads to torque sensing inclusion.
.
 

allen-uk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2010
909
25
Well, reading the above it seems that Wisper most definitely HAS changed its set-up over recent years. My Wisper 905se was bought new in 2010, and the 3 power levels certainly don't work on speed.

Level 1 means only the strongest should try cycling - it is very hard.

Level 2 is okay, but not advisable up hills if you're big and fat.

Level 3 is where mine is permanently on. It might be a bit over-powered bowling along flat roads, but I just stop pedalling for a bit, rather than muck about changing down to Level 2.

The only time speed starts to relate to power levels is at the top end (without the 'off-road' button being operated) where dead on 15.5mph the motor stops working.

A
 

jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,820
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the Cornish Alps
If I just wanted transport, or even to just ride around for fun without wanting to worry too much about improving my fitness, and being able to monitor how it was improving, I'd have a speed sensor bike.
Zackly _ And a proper bike for when you find your fitness has improved, anyway.
 

mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,627
. I can't understand this obsession with trying to make an electric bike like a normal bike so that you get no power when your legs are tired. I think that a lot of the designers are cyclists, not people like us. There must always be some way to get maximum power without stressing yourself to maximum. By all means have a torque multiplication system but then you need another control that can turn up the power when you're tired.
I have always made this point. I disconnected my pedalec and only use the throttle. This gives me an infinite range of power between nil and the maximum the bike can give, at any time, and none of this 'surging' that I have never experienced.
I know full well that I am riding an electric bike, so does everybody else, so why pretend?. why try to fool yourself?
Why do people want an electric bike to have a 'workout'? it does not make sense to me at all, just get an ordinary bike if that is what you want.
My guess is that manufacturers are still obsessed with range and want to limit the power usage, so they give us electrical assistance that works backwards, i.e. plenty of help when you are fit, little or none when you are tired
 

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
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Zackly _ And a proper bike for when you find your fitness has improved, anyway.
I'm not sure I'd ever want a 'proper' bike again where I live. It was far too much like hard work the last time I had one here with all the steep hills; and I wasn't past retirement age then either. I was pretty fit from running with the dog then too.

I ride this bike just like a normal bike on the flat and pedal past the power cut out until I get to a hill, and then I'm Miguel Indurain when the power comes in.

Which is nice...As they used to say on the Fast Show.
 
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JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
1,486
736
why try to fool yourself?
Why do people want an electric bike to have a 'workout'? it does not make sense to me at all, just get an ordinary bike if that is what you want.
My guess is that manufacturers are still obsessed with range and want to limit the power usage, so they give us electrical assistance that works backwards, i.e. plenty of help when you are fit, little or none when you are tired
Or as George Bernard Shaw wrote:

"Do not do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You may not have the same tastes."

But then you may be younger than some of us and/or live in a less hilly area perhaps?
 

allen-uk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2010
909
25
John Cade - quite agree. Maybe instead of the twee little descriptions under ones name (Pedelecer, Finding my electric wheels, etc) we should have more accurate summaries.

Old git, fat; skinny little sod, 70-plus; young and fit, or whatever.

Oh, me? That'd be old, fat, disabled, in search of a quiet life.

A
 
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JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
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Me? Pretty fit for my age. I'm the same age as David Bowie, and increasingly have the same temperament as Victor Meldrew.
 

Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
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70
Why do people want an electric bike to have a 'workout'? it does not make sense to me at all, just get an ordinary bike if that is what you want.
I can't agree with this. I already had an ordinary bike (in fact, I had two, one of them a very nice Dawes Galaxy), but I wasn't using them. It's hilly round here, and work is just that bit too far away to make a commute feasible. If I were young and fit, no problem, but I am neither of those things. I need the exercise, but there are psychological and physical barriers to using the pushbike regularly. However, I managed to commute to work and back yesterday and felt I had a good workout on the electric bike. Yes, it was probably only 50% of the exercise I would have had on a 'proper' bike, but it was 100% more than I would have had without it.

If my legs get stronger and my puff gets greater, I might consider going back to a 'proper' bike. And if my electric bike lets me regain the fitness I need to do that, all well and good. It isn't as simple as lazy people = electric bike and fitness fanatics = pushbike. There are grey areas in between.
 

crE

Pedelecer
Aug 29, 2014
183
28
42
I agree with Black Dog.

I've purchased mine for similar reasons. I'm 27. Not overweight. But a 20 mile round trip to and from work on a regular bike will not be feasible with my fitness. I may be able to make it, but will arrive into work a sweaty mess and will be completely sapped of energy. An electric bike is a happy compromise for me to save 60 quid a month in petrol and gradually improve my fitness
 

jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,820
323
the Cornish Alps
Several people on this thread, me included, seem to regard their ebike as an enjoyable means of getting about the local area _ Others commute:
Maybe we are setting a trend toward the continental mindset, away from bike-riding as sport?

I love my ebike, but don't compete on it:
I also love the fact that my fitness has improved, over 2 years, sufficiently to enable me to enjoy half-a-day out on the local trail centres; which will become a full day out once the bpm2 gets fitted to the #2 bouncer :D
P.s. I'm 65 too
 
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Black Dog

Pedelecer
Jul 18, 2014
137
60
70
I have never considered bike riding as a sport. As a child, it was a toy, as a teenager it was freedom, as an adult it was a means of getting to work and a wonderful way to see the UK, and always it has been a wonderful object, a piece of beautiful and useful technology. I have no desire to race anyone, and never had (which perhaps explains why I am not interested in sports generally). I am now rediscovering just how much sheer bloody fun a bike is. If this is a European mindset, then I am all for it.

And if gets a bit of weight off, and the BP down a bit, so much the better. I've been reading the link in the e-MTB thread, and the views of the 'sport' riders make me realise just how much I loathe the snobbery and elitism of some people. It reminds me of a guy I work with who always takes the mick out of me for my motorbike. Because I don't ride insanely fast or take stupid risks, he reckons I am not a true biker. He rides his on a few sunny days every year; I ride to work every day, rain or shine*. Who's the true biker?

*Maybe not for much longer, if the Wisper proves to be a proper commuting tool. Second commute tonight, and I am still alive ...
 
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