Bikes vs Cars

[jerrysimon]

Posted over on the Bromtpon forum

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/may/03/bikes-vs-cars-film-war-cyclists-drivers-fredrik-gertten-interview

"In Toronto, they’ve painted over the bike lanes. And in São Paulo, a cyclist got his arm torn off by a car that didn’t even stop … We knew it was bad on the world’s crowded roads, but a new film reveals it’s a fight to the death"

It was sad to watch them removing bike lane lines and listening to how bus lanes were purchased by General Motors in LA and changed into car lanes, abolishing public transport!

The gentleman stating that roads were built for buses, cars and trucks had an interesting perspective. Bikes sharing roads was like "swimming with the sharks". I can see this perspective when bike lanes are cut out of road space and for me it emphasises the need for dedicated bike lanes. I guess thats hard in so many places given the infractructure was not designed that way.

I wouldn't be without my car. I just purchased a new one last October but it sits on the drive most weekdays having just done 3.5K miles to date. During the week commuting by ebike transformed my working day when I started 6 years ago. I hate using the car for work now except when I have loads to carry or when its very cold or snowing

Regards

Jerry

 

[flecc]

"In Toronto, they’ve painted over the bike lanes. And in São Paulo, a cyclist got his arm torn off by a car that didn’t even stop … We knew it was bad on the world’s crowded roads, but a new film reveals it’s a fight to the death"

Reminds us that, as I've posted a few times, we in the UK have the world's safest roads for everyone, including cyclists. The EU uses us as the stick to beat other countries with on the roads safety issue.
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[Croxden]

When I was working we had to alter the traffic flow around the works so cars and commercial vehicles did not mix.also, when walking in the areas a hi-vis vest had to worn. This was a H&S rule following investigations after incidents.

If this is having to be done to stop accidents at work, doesn't it make bikes on roads seem so antiquated?

 

[D8ve]

Cars vs bikes. No contest. A few small scratches and the cyclist is done.
Perhaps the cars should realise we were here first before the infernal combustion engines.
Bring back canals for goods transport!
Humbug mutter mutter etc...

 

[flecc]

Perhaps the cars should realise we were here first before the infernal combustion engines.

Absolutely.

Priority first to pedestrians, second horseriders and animal drawn loads, third cyclists, fourth motor vehicles.

Though I doubt our wildlife would agree with that historic priority listing.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Grumpy old men on electric bikes now there is an idea for a TV show! Oh wait... already been done... But presented by J Clarckson there's a new twist

I went for my annual work health checkup and was lucky, only two cars overtook me before immediately turning right making me reach for the brakes.

1. As a bike is relatively slower (in town, much slower on the open road) it is perceived as being a hinderance and wasting the drivers precious time. Often a loss of mere seconds is reason enough to pass dangerously.

2. Once there is a certain amount of traffic, hence congestion, a bike is much faster in town and it is the cars which slow the bike down if there is no dedicated cycle lane.

3. Road rage is not limited to car drivers - some pedestrians and many cyclists also have road rage as we have read elsewhere

Tony

 

[SteveRuss]

"In Toronto, they’ve painted over the bike lanes.

Interesting article Jerry.

I actually moved to Toronto on my own when I was twenty two, after working over there two months before, with £600 in my pocket and I lasted two years. I know the place well. Certainly around 1990-1993 anyways.

The place isn't great for cycling when it comes to the main roads as much of it is given over to Trams. Anyone that has ever ridden a bike in a heavily Tram tracked city knows how dangerous those big tracks are if you have to cross one.

One of the routes I ride when i'm out for a coffee in town has an old train track (this is in Bristol) by the harbour side. Some poor guy died when he got stuck in the tracks and ended up in the river and died. They've since closed that section to cyclists.

Toronto's current Mayor is obviously an A grade idiot and despite his comment on cyclists being outrageous, i'll continue to try and ignore him from this point on.

I found it interesting when the article made the point that, most people are cyclists/drivers/pedestrians so you'd expect a better coalition than the people from Toronto seem to have (certainly from the local authorities viewpoint). I think the Uk has it's issues in this regard but no ride is ever a nightmare for me. There are idiots from all the above parties but I find that we get on quite well on the whole..

 

[Croxden]

Has anyone posted this http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=34929

Sir Clive's son's bike to help stop the side swipe incidents.

 

[flecc]

Yes, I posted similar recently Croxden, on this link
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[Croxden]

Thanks flecc, I managed to miss your link but I now know I don't want one.

 

[catsnapper]

Hi Jerry,

I saw the same article about the Fredrik Gertten film as it's on in Barcelona later this month.

It's all rather different in our more traditional town in Spain. The streets are narrow and entirely one way. Despite a lot of parked cars, many rarely move as it's quicker to walk or bike.
There are so many zebra crossings on every road that drivers stop for you well BEFORE you get to a crossing! A lot of drivers wait for cyclists even if they have the right of way.....I guess they're not in a hurry.....

The unspoken code about pedestrian right of way on the narrow pavements is quite complex - the hierarchy of age, prams, shopping trolleys, children with parents etc seems to have evolved over time....

The more modern urban areas have wide, open (and largely empty!) pavements that accept cycling - the only downside is the recent ban on cycling on the central main front, especially in summer.

Surprisingly, the local council has built a mini-park with roads, lights, crossings etc for young children to ride, scoot or whatever - it's been built just behind the central police station
Despite all the acceptance of cycling, one local neighbour tells us it's not a bike friendly town!

 

[LEBC Tom]

V ....its not a competition

 

[LEBC Tom]

Has anyone posted this http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=34929

Sir Clive's son's bike to help stop the side swipe incidents.

Problem is it's not 'sexy' enough.

 

[2Lazy]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll look out for that film when it comes out on DVD or Netflix, even though some of the content looks depressingly sad.

As a recent returnee (is that a word?) to cycling for leisure and soon to be commuter cyclist I have been reading up on some of the history and political shenanigans surrounding the cycling 'lobby' (such as it is) in the UK. I was disappointed and somewhat shocked to discover that far from being united the cycling lobby seems to be split broadly into two diametrically opposed camps. Those who seek to promote much better cycling infrastructure the like of which can be seen in rather more enlightened countries such as Holland and Denmark, and those who militantly defend the 'right to ride' (on the road) and who are very often also proponents of 'vehicular cycling'. Given that most people have no option but to ride on the road I have no problem with the latter per se but what I find utterly mind boggling is that some of them are also militantly opposed to better cycling infrastructure. Indeed there are one or two influential figures in this camp e.g. John Franklin and John Forester, that have over the course of many years advised local and central Government in the UK and the US respectively against building dedicated cycling infrastructure. Their claim being that cycling on segregated cycle tracks and other cycling infrastructure is less safe than riding on the road and that roads are perfectly safe for cycling (even for children and the elderly) and that cyclists just need better training. This I find so utterly astonishingly absurd as to be almost unbelievable but it turns out that this is what John Franklin and others of his ilk actually believe and actively promote. And of course Governments and Councils are only too willing to listen to this advice because it's cheap and they can get away with little or no spending on cycling infrastructure. The removal of the bike lanes in Toronto I think is a case of chickens coming home to roost for these nutty militant 'vehicular cyclists'. Because not only have the bike lanes been removed the mayor who approved their removal evidently hates cyclists and clearly thinks that cyclists shouldn't be riding on the road at all. The only silver lining is that perhaps now -against a backdrop of such blatant prejudice and unfairness - the cycling lobby (both here and in the US) might consider presenting a more united front.

 

[eastman]

Thanks for sharing the views guys.

 

[flecc]

I was disappointed and somewhat shocked to discover that far from being united the cycling lobby seems to be split broadly into two diametrically opposed camps. Those who seek to promote much better cycling infrastructure the like of which can be seen in rather more enlightened countries such as Holland and Denmark, and those who militantly defend the 'right to ride' (on the road) and who are very often also proponents of 'vehicular cycling'.

There is a hidden agenda behind the apparently negative actions of the two Johns and their followers though, and that many of them are roadies/lycras gives a clue what that is.

It's the fear that separate cycling facility use will be made compulsory to get cyclists out of the way of motorists, which in this law-obsessed/car-biased/cyclist-hating country is very likely to happen. Given the evidence we already have of how ill maintained even the best of cycling facilities are here and the fact that many become only fit for utility or off-road bikes, one can see how roadies fear of that prospect is justified. At least our roads, though far from perfect, are the lesser obstacle course.

However, in London their agenda has been ignored in one instance now, since a mostly completely separated cycle commuting route is being created for the first time. We'll have to see how that influences future policy over time.

Going back to the two Johns and followers, there is some partial truth in their claims of increased cycling accidents. As I showed recently, in The Netherlands and Denmark, the two countries with the most extensive cycling networks, the cyclist death rates are far higher than one might expect and the proportion of self-caused deaths with no others involved far, far higher than here. No reason is advanced from either, but I venture to suggest that feeling immune on separated cycling routes might cause more carelessness and risk taking at times.
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